October 2, 2008 8:00 am  |  283 Comments

SLAMonline Top 50: Chris Bosh, no. 22

The definitive ranking of the best players in the NBA today…

by Chris O’Leary

The youngster’s name rang out through Madison Square Garden, among the most honest and harshest basketball fans you’ll ever encounter. Fourth overall, Toronto bound. The masses, perhaps spent from the jubilation of LeBron and Melo, stayed relatively silent. As he made his way up to the stage with the handshake-happy Sternbot in tow, wondering if the Commish would remember he was a southpaw, two things were evident: the kid needed at least another 20 lbs. and a dermatologist. And with that Chris Bosh settled in under the radar, a jewel in the making, lost in the blinged-out shuffle of the 2003 Draft.

Five full seasons later, it’s safe to say the cat’s out of the bag with Bosh. He’s now a three-time all-star, a YouTube whore, a well-rounded 19 and 9 career power forward and most recently an Olympic gold medalist. Bosh will tuck all of his accomplishments away in the vault at the start of Season 6 though, because he and all of his vlog alter egos know that this is the most important season of his career.

While everything in Toronto might hinge on the knees of Jermaine O’Neal, Bosh will power the Raptors to wherever it is they’re going to go this year. A healthy O’Neal lifts the Raps to higher heights, but should JO catch a case of Penny/Gil-itis, the weight of the world is going to shift over onto Bosh’s shoulders and there’s nothing he’ll be able to do but play through it.

As the days draw nearer to Toronto’s opening night (27 left and counting), Bosh finds himself in an interesting situation. It’s not very often that a 24-year-old with his pedigree—the guy who flat out is the cornerstone of his team—doesn’t have control over how successful that team will be in the coming season. It’s that simple: if Bryan Colangelo’s trade works, the Raps should soar in the East. If it doesn’t, Bosh will be forced to watch as another great individual season gives way to team failure in late April.

A year from now, the basketball world will have a better idea of what Chris Bosh’s future holds. For now, we should sit back and enjoy the show; watch the man start to look like Snoop Dogg the longer his hair gets, and try to remember a time when the mention of CB4 made you think of this before thinking of a guy who can rack on you from the block or win a game on a spot-up J with the clock winding down.

Want more of the SLAMonline Top 50? Check out the archive.

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This story is filed under: Blogs, NBA, SLAMonline Top 50, Sole Searching

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  • Paps Posted: Oct.2 at 8:04 am
    #1

  • Pve84 Posted: Oct.2 at 8:05 am
    I’ve never really understood Chris Bosh and I’ve always thought he was too light, but he still manages to get it done. Always impressive.

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.2 at 8:08 am
    Versatile, intelligent, great mid-range game, athletic, leader.*insert adjective* Chris Bosh.

  • Ken Posted: Oct.2 at 8:09 am
    I have a lot more respect for the guy after watching him in the Olympics. You really got a sense of what he could do with some help.

  • andrew Posted: Oct.2 at 8:11 am
    I have nothing to add.

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.2 at 8:13 am
    Just another guy Dumars could have had over Darko. Yes, i’m still bitter.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 8:19 am
    @TADone…: and you are rightfully so…

  • James aka The Artist Formerly Known as Krayzie Bone Posted: Oct.2 at 8:19 am
    Don’t worry TAD, we took Raefael Araujo over Iggy, Bargnani over Aldridge and Roy, etc.

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.2 at 8:20 am
    Oh Tadly…. dont be like that. Look at it this way- without Darko’s 2 minutes of playing time in 03/4 then Tayshaun and Sheed might not have been able to run as much or, shoot as well,or something. Help me out here, Im fighting a loosing battle.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 8:22 am
    i remember seeing Darko on a Euroleague game a few months before he got drafted and i was wondering if those guys calling him the next Dirk(Chad Ford and other draft gurus..) had ever see him play….

  • blackice87 Posted: Oct.2 at 8:22 am
    someone predicted that he would be 22nd in the list or else they would have done something ridiculous if not. and he was 22nd. coincidence, I THINK NOT. In regards to his ranking, I will say that as a fan I accept it as it is. He will prove whether he is top 20, maybe top 15 in the league this year. If the raptors had advanced in the playoffs past the first round in the previous two years SLAM would have definately had a higher ranking for CB4.

  • Michael Posted: Oct.2 at 8:25 am
    I cant really argue with the ranking i guess, I am very interested to see where melo ends up though

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 8:26 am
    Melo will already be ranked much higher than he really deserves…

  • matt the jazz fan Posted: Oct.2 at 8:29 am
    seems a tad low to me. i’d have him above amare (assuming amare comes up in the next 21 days)…

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 8:35 am
    @matt…:don’t worry, with his statistics (coupled with this prevailing videogame mentality)he will propably be top-15…

  • overtime Posted: Oct.2 at 8:36 am
    wow,22?interesting

  • scott Posted: Oct.2 at 8:38 am
    Bosh is a very good player. He just isn’t an elite player. Garnett, Duncan, Nowitzki and Boozer usually own their matchups with Bosh. Tad sorry Detroit didn’t draft Bosh they probably would have had another two titles. Always the what ifs.

  • Bryan Posted: Oct.2 at 8:38 am
    You won the championship Tad move on.

  • mat smith Posted: Oct.2 at 8:40 am
    Bosh’s switching out on D in China was impressive, but now Amare has a sweet J no way Chris should be higher than STAT, i’d have Amare top 10, 22 is good for Bosh

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.2 at 8:40 am
    Sorry but co-sign Bryan :)

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.2 at 8:47 am
    Didn’t we take on Bosh yesterday?

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 8:48 am
    Players in the top-20 that shouldn’t be over Bosh:
    Amare,Howard(top-30)Melo,Boozer,B.Davis(40)Iverson(60)

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.2 at 8:49 am
    Yeah, yeah Shia. I know. I blame it on a lack of sleep. I’m cranky this morning.

  • DP Posted: Oct.2 at 8:50 am
    Good ranking for a dude that just proved what he is worth to the Raptors during the olympics. CB should have a decent year especially if JO starts playing at a high level. Teams will not know who to double team.

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.2 at 8:50 am
    K.T.- Seriously, you say some pretty stupid things. Do you think before saying this stuff or do you say it just to get a reaction out of people?

  • DP Posted: Oct.2 at 8:52 am
    To think about CB4 and Sheed would be so scary. But so would Melo and Wade.

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.2 at 8:52 am
    Maybe he meant A.I. is 60 divided by 4.

  • Toni Kukoc Posted: Oct.2 at 8:53 am
    In the early part of last season, I thought Bosh was really soft (mainly because he was averaging like 5 boards a game thru 30 games). But he turned it around. I agree he can’t carry a team like I think STAT could if he had to. It’s a good spot for the young bull

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 8:53 am
    Player not in the top-20 that should actually be over Bosh:
    Gasol(top-15)

  • scott Posted: Oct.2 at 8:53 am
    Kostas please explain yourself instead of just posting nonsense.

  • scott Posted: Oct.2 at 8:54 am
    Obviously Kostas didn’t watch the NBA Finals.

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.2 at 8:56 am
    I think Kostas is using some odd Euro numbering system that doesn’t compute to the North American world.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 8:56 am
    Player that should be consider TOP-30 ALL TIME but unfortunatelly no-one in the states saw him play(i mean in his prime): TONY KUKOC

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 8:57 am
    @eBOY…:smart comment, i loved it!!!!(no irony here)

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.2 at 8:58 am
    Try “Toni” Kukoc and then get back to us.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 8:58 am
    @TADone…:i have said already that i am retarded.

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.2 at 9:00 am
    Although to be clear, if “Tony” played in this era he would be pulling huge dollars like Dirk and Hedo and had more talent than both of them. He would have been a multiple All-Star too.

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.2 at 9:00 am
    Clearly.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 9:00 am
    @scott…:i watched something way bigger,the Olympic final…

  • scott Posted: Oct.2 at 9:00 am
    Kukoc came to the NBA when he was 25. Pretty sure we saw his peak of his career. Kukoc wouldn’t make the All-time top 150.

  • scott Posted: Oct.2 at 9:01 am
    You’re right Gasol lost in both.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 9:01 am
    @eBOY …:you completely killed me there…

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.2 at 9:02 am
    What does that mean, Kostas?

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 9:03 am
    you too scott…(can it be the same person using two names or just 2 great minds coming together..?)

  • scott Posted: Oct.2 at 9:04 am
    Eboy and myself lost brain cells by reading your comments.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 9:05 am
    i lost the battle and i am leaving for now…(going in my corner to cry, as someone said some days ago..)i guess i should start playing NBAlive if i want to catch up with you…

  • Gerard Himself Posted: Oct.2 at 9:15 am
    I wrote about the Raptors some days ago on my blog, and I’m wondering: where’s their bench? The regular season might still be good, with the addition of O’Neal, but they won’t get very far in the playoffs with this roster.

  • fluxland Posted: Oct.2 at 9:24 am
    MILI VANILLI!! Come April it will be *blame it on the rain*. I know James the Balla took a beating yesterday… but I agree with most of his points. Although, I’ll take the Chirs O route and see what he does this year. A lot of the players on Raps have a lot to prove this year. My patience is wearing thin with most of them.. this is the put up or get the F out year.
    @Kostas - did you miss my msg from a few days ago or do I need to post if for you again? Every time you type something you look like a Greek Sheep.. maybe we’ll start calling you Balki from now on. Calling Toni Tony -inexcusable!!

  • fluxland Posted: Oct.2 at 9:28 am
    @Gerard.. I’ve been crying about that for a while on here now. You are wasting your time. People don’t see past CB4 (or mostly his Olympic performance), JO and Jose…they think that’s all the Raptors need.

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.2 at 9:37 am
    Flux: I know the Raps need a lot more. Mainly a 2 guard and a consistent bench. Better coach too. But, if O’Neal can get back to 17/10, I still think they can surprise a few people.

  • Joey Graham tweaks ankle « Arsenalist Posted: Oct.2 at 9:40 am
    [...] Slam is ranking the Top 50 players in the NBA and Chris Bosh comes up at #22. More importantly they dropped this old-school YouTube vid on me which just made my day: [...]

  • Money Bill Williams Posted: Oct.2 at 9:41 am
    a number one pick coming off the bench is not that bad, also anthony parker and delfino can make something happen

  • Simone S.Y Lawy Posted: Oct.2 at 9:41 am
    kostas, get da hell out of here…

  • Lz - Cphfinest3 Posted: Oct.2 at 9:42 am
    I reckon Bosh is a good player, and this ranking could be pretty solid if he maintains the level and intensity he showed in the Olympics for the coming year, instead of his usual routine of shooting too many j’s, avoiding physical contact, and getting way too few rebounds and blocks for an athletic 6′11 guy. That’s a big IF however. Still I have to mention that it kills me that Boozer will probably be ranked over him, as Carlos absolutely sucks imo.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 9:42 am
    Kostas Tsartsaris simply only knows about NBA players from the olympics, guys. He said players who either lost in 2004 or didn’t do well in 2008 should be behind Bosh. Don’t you freaking get it? All he knows about is Euro basketball. Poor guy.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 9:43 am
    Also, Toni Kukoc was arguably the third best guy on the Bulls. He still wasn’t terribly great though.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 9:43 am
    And the fact that Boozer is so high leaves me in utter shock. Unless he’s not on the list, in which case I’m also in utter shock. Lose/lose, I guess!

  • Simone S.Y Lawy Posted: Oct.2 at 9:43 am
    i love his video with his dumm brother…

  • Simone S.Y Lawy Posted: Oct.2 at 9:44 am
    just saying, he’s cute…i mean his brother

  • fluxland Posted: Oct.2 at 9:45 am
    TAD I know you know what’s up. It’s the people talking about 2nd in the East and contenders that irk me. So, Jawai has a heart thing going on and Parker suffered a strained groin in practice.. things are starting of fantastic and we are not in preseason yet. Thing is Bosh has not been durable and neither has JO (as we well know)… and it’s all about April right? Who knows what kind of shape both are going to be in after the 82game mileage.

  • Lz - Cphfinest3 Posted: Oct.2 at 9:46 am
    And fellas please stop paying attention to “random greek name (today Kostas)”, dude is simply way too biased. Me being a Euro myself and definitely feeling that American players could learn a lot from the Euros (and vica-verca off course), and probably being somewhat biased myself. But still I simply just have to ignore a guy who says that Iverson don’t belong in the top 50. That’s just not knowing basketball when you see it.

  • Simone S.Y Lawy Posted: Oct.2 at 9:48 am
    you’re right Lz

  • airs Posted: Oct.2 at 9:48 am
    damn, boozer is higher? really?
    just as long as dwight is ahead of him.

  • Gerard Himself Posted: Oct.2 at 9:49 am
    okay flux, sorry that I don’t read every comment on SLAMonline. Thanks for mentioning I’m wasting my time. However, I’m at work, and this beats working.

  • Moose Posted: Oct.2 at 9:52 am
    UNDERRATED

  • jasonjoyce Posted: Oct.2 at 9:54 am
    it’s a resonable rank for BOSH

  • fluxland Posted: Oct.2 at 9:55 am
    Gerard.. sorry if you took that as a knock. It wasn’t. I was just saying “I hear ya man” and wasting your time as in “people are not listening”. I was agreeing with you, my man. Although, not reading every comment on SLAMonline… you are missing out on some great stuff and some comedy as well. With the exception of Balki (the romanian random greek name guy) Now THAT is a complete waste of time.

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.2 at 9:58 am
    Wow that guy is a moron. Yes I told him to go sit in the corner of his room and cry while listening to MCR or Bullet For My Valentine.

  • ciolkstar Posted: Oct.2 at 10:10 am
    Bosh is a top 20 talent, but is still very young. I’ve got no problems with this ranking.
    Also:
    Kukoc was nice but I still wouldn’t place him above Dirk(who’s game I don’t love). Turkoglu is a pretty fair comparison, Toni probably wasn’t as good a shooter, but was more versatile.

  • jasonjoyce Posted: Oct.2 at 10:10 am
    i haven’t seen parker,manu,,duncun,kobe,yao,t-mac,deron,boozer,nash,amare,dirk,anthony,iverson,pierce,james,arenas,dwight,wade,paul,KG,baron…so maybe it’s the left players who will appear on this rank.this my rank,haha:
    1.kobe 2.james 3.paul 4.dwight 5.wade 6.kg 7.duncun 8.dirk 9.amare 10.nash 11.yao 12.pierce 13.deron 14.t-mac 15.athony 16.manu 17.boozer 18.arenas 19.iverson 20.baron 21.parker

  • Balki Posted: Oct.2 at 10:13 am
    @Jukai…:B.Davis wasn’t on any Olympic team(he was in the lengendary worlds2002 team though…)
    @Flux…:i answered you at the Caron article(sept 30, 4:33 pm) but i was sure you won’t love my answer…
    @Hursty…:i was sure you gonna mention that you were the one with the “corner of his room ” comment, so why not make somebody happy-proud if it is that easy….?
    to anyone who didn’t see KUKOC at the end of the 80’s missed one of the top-20 bball players of all time…Just think of a 6-11 version of Penny Hardaway..of course he was propably thinner than Penny at the moment,but he was a better defender and 3point shooter…if you ever come across anyone that saw him play at that period (with a team named Yugoplastica that was then named POP84) just ask him and don’t worry about a moron like me…

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.2 at 10:16 am
    And thats why most people dont care what you think jasonjoyce- because youf f’ing dumb!

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.2 at 10:17 am
    *your- now it seems like I am the dumb@ss. My bad.

  • Gerard Himself Posted: Oct.2 at 10:17 am
    whoops sorry flux. My bad. Well, by “not reading all the comments” - sometimes I’m a bit late when the Top 50 is posted, and there are already 200 posts I tend to skip a few. And about “Balki”, I know who you mean, and he’s far from a…. perfect stranger *rimshot*

  • starbury&stevey Posted: Oct.2 at 10:17 am
    Kosta@sorry file alla o TADOne exei dikio…

  • Simone S.Y Lawy Posted: Oct.2 at 10:20 am
    jasonjoyce=kostas…

  • Antwonomous Posted: Oct.2 at 10:27 am
    Think this is low for him. Think he’s about top-15.

  • Daniel Posted: Oct.2 at 10:30 am
    First!

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.2 at 10:32 am
    Daniel, my mind is boggled at how you could think that was even remotely funny.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 10:37 am
    Boggle all you want, I laughed hard after reading Daniel’s comment

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.2 at 10:39 am
    I will boggle myself into submission and sleep now Jukai. Out! Peace.

  • matt the jazz fan Posted: Oct.2 at 10:39 am
    cosign antwonmous. even as a jazz fan i think i’d rank him, blasphemously, over boozer and certainly over amare (no defense)…

  • fluxland Posted: Oct.2 at 10:41 am
    @Balki - it’s actually Jugoplastika… and I grew up in Europe and seen all their games (for your information). Seriously, you think you are intellectually superior to everyone else and you are not. You put North Americans in a box shaped by views you got from your media, IMO. WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! It only proves how intellectually inferior you are. Oh and just so you know.. i took 6 years of piano lessons when a I was young while my old man played nothing but Struss and Chopin at the house. And I grew up in Florence.. so don’t talk to me about art. Get of your high sheep and have a gyro, Balki.. you are no better then anyone.

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.2 at 10:42 am
    Can someone tell me what starbury & stevey said about me?

  • fluxland Posted: Oct.2 at 10:44 am
    @Gerard… no worries, Sir. Just didn’t want you think I was blasting you.

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.2 at 10:46 am
    @ TAD- TAD has firm nipples.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 10:50 am
    @TADone…:he said (in greek)that you were right and i wasn’t…(hursty, you got company!!!)

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.2 at 10:51 am
    @Balki- Im assuming that English is not your first language? Because Im strugglin to comprehend exactly what that means. Take your time responding too- I wont read this for another 10 hours at the minimum.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 10:55 am
    @Flux…:you are an untalented lier,but at least you tried…(but enough with this on my part,i don’t want to be the reson for this kind of music to be disgraced, at the same time i am not an expert on it,i just prefer to listen)

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 10:57 am
    @Hursty…:one more poor kid fealing happy by seeing his name mentioned!!!(i did less than 10 hours,wow!!!bravo la mine!!!)

  • fluxland Posted: Oct.2 at 10:59 am
    How am I a liar? Explain yourself…

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 11:00 am
    when I say enough, it is enough…

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.2 at 11:02 am
    Kostas- that makes no sense either. Are you insulting me? Chiding me? Being funny? WTH dude. Be clear.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 11:04 am
    How do you separate the boys from the men in Greece?

  • Bryan Posted: Oct.2 at 11:04 am
    Good spot for bosh he’s only gonna get better. The Pistons should have picked him instead of Darko.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 11:04 am
    With a crowbar!

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.2 at 11:05 am
    Maybe its lack of sleep that is not allowing me to understand. Still, I doubt that it’ll make any difference in the morning.

  • fluxland Posted: Oct.2 at 11:06 am
    Think what you want… I don’t have to prove anything to you. But do me a favour and stop classifying North Americans as NBA Live playing, steroid taking, hip hop listening, intellectually inferior to Euros people. Because they are not and you have not lived here (like I have) to know.

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.2 at 11:08 am
    scorch Flux…. :)

  • Boing Dynasty Posted: Oct.2 at 11:08 am
    I find it amusing how many people decided “chris bosh is good now” because he switched up his whole game for like 10 international games and was pretty effective. Also im not saying bosh is better than stat or stat is better than bosh, but to say stat can carry a team and bosh cant is stupid, stat has never played with anything other than a all-star point guard since hes been in the nba. you cant just give stat the ball anywhere on the court and say go get buckets, you can with bosh, and sam mitchell often does. anyways Bosh > who ever shows up on this list tomorrow.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 11:09 am
    @Hursty…:don’t worry that much about whatever stupidity i’m writting cool…
    and on a more serious note: if anyone of this forum ever comes to Bucurest in the near future,give me a sign and i promise you will have a good time.

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.2 at 11:09 am
    time to get funky!

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.2 at 11:15 am
    Kostas-Im still confused. Obviously English is not yuor first language. Outx2. G’day BET. Check our blog. And read the comments on your own blog!

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.2 at 11:15 am
    Bosh is the best on this list so far.

  • fluxland Posted: Oct.2 at 11:18 am
    Yo Balki.. you play chess? Let’s see how smart you really are.. and don’t think about using a program because I will know. Also, I’m going back to visit next summer .. I might take you up on that offer… what do I do? Find the commissioner and ask him to turn on the Balki light? @Boing.. yeah, everyone (seems to be) is riding the Olympic performing/limited duties/playing with high caliber players Bosh.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 11:30 am
    @flux…:i don’t know chess,not even the rules(chess is indeed for smart people,so…). It’s better to get here in the summer, the girls don’t wear that much at that period and this is a good thing if you have ever heard about romanian-moldovian girls…funny comment on the Balki light(you are smart indeed),..no,you don’t contact Mr Stern,you just leave a message at one of the forums and we arrange a meeting point …(pick a Euro-related article,i always read them!!! )

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 11:32 am
    and don’t let anything i’ve written (or will write in the future)discourage you doing so…

  • fluxland Posted: Oct.2 at 11:35 am
    I just clicked that CB4 link, Chris. Muy funny. “We’re the bagheads! We’re the bagheads! The bagheads”! hahahaha..

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.2 at 11:37 am
    Flux>Kostas

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.2 at 11:38 am
    read my blog! i am out

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.2 at 11:38 am
    ..for now

  • Keith Posted: Oct.2 at 11:42 am
    Kostas is the smartest commentor on here.

  • Mo Posted: Oct.2 at 11:48 am
    David West was too low.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 11:55 am
    @Keith…:i hope this is far from true…(i actually KNOW it is not true. Because I never stay much in a discussion panel if don’t feal that there is somebody “better” than me, somebody i can take things from him/her and make me better at whatever…)

  • Keith Posted: Oct.2 at 12:05 pm
    Dear Kostats I honestly think some of your comments have been really very insightful. They’ve made me think about my opinions on basketball players and how I should be viewing them.
    Your opinion of Iverson was initially met with derision from others but I for one think you are right. You’re seeing things that not many other people do. I’d like to see you spend more time round here and for you to contribute more of your opinions.
    Thanks again Kostas Tsartsaris Keith

  • Jess Posted: Oct.2 at 12:10 pm
    Ya gotta love the comments haha…Anways, back to BOSH. I dont know if I completely agree with this ranking, it could have been better, but Im sure if the Raps had a better record (and better than a first round exit) CB’s ranking would be better. Raps fans have seen Bosh play the way he does for some years now, and the olympics were solid but shouldnt have been SUCH a shock to people (although being north of the border hasnt exacly helped his tv. time) CB has been able to play defence, its just that we didnt see it all the time because, well, we all know that defence hasnt exactly been the strong point for the Raps. This year with JO, defence will play a bigger part, and their style of play will change. They wont be as up-tempo, they will be more of a grind-it-out, half court type of team, and then they can still kick it out and run on the break. This season should be good and if the Raps can get further (and I agree with you flux, contenders or 2nd in the east isnt logical this season - and i am a HUGE Raps fan) Bosh will find himself with a better ranking next year. OH AND @ BALKI, THE COMMENT ABOUT IVERSON WAS THE MOST RIDICULOUS THING I HAVE READ IN SOME TIME, WELL BESIDES ALL YOUR OTHER COMMENTS…

  • Big Sia Posted: Oct.2 at 12:11 pm
    OVERRATED AND SOFT

  • Big Sia Posted: Oct.2 at 12:11 pm
    Easily the most unclutch franchise player in the last 10 years

  • Allenp Posted: Oct.2 at 12:17 pm
    If the Pistons had drafted Bosh they might have won three more rings with that veteran group. I blame Chad Ford.

  • fluxland Posted: Oct.2 at 12:20 pm
    ^^agree x 2
    @Jess: I know why people view BC4 the way they do in RaptorLand, but I just have serious doubt about him being this “successful” on another team.. and thats two 1st round exits against teams that were viewed as equally matched to the Raps. Now, you can go around and blame whomever you want and opinions vary. I for one rest it with the players (Jose and Bosh) and hence agree with Big Sia.

  • fluxland Posted: Oct.2 at 12:21 pm
    ^^agree x2 @Big Sia.. not comment at 12:17

  • blackice87 Posted: Oct.2 at 12:30 pm
    Does the word tangent have any meaning on the SLAM site? It’s either that or a serious case of ADHD, I dunno.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 12:31 pm
    @Keith&Jess…:i will elaborate in the Iverson case(most criminal waste of talent in the last 10 years) when his name comes up in the list…( or later if this happen between 9/10 and 15/10)

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.2 at 12:37 pm
    I thought “criminal waste of talent” was meant solely for guys like Michael Vick.

  • Jess Posted: Oct.2 at 12:39 pm
    “Most criminal waste of talent in the last 10 yrs” oh I cant even take this anymore. Are we talking about the same Allen Iverson? We cant be….theres no way.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 12:48 pm
    More than anyone here, I think Iverson has a lot of flaws in the way he plays that do not necessarily help teams. That being said, dude never wastes talent ever, and has given it a thousand percent whenever he goes on the court.

  • ynneb Posted: Oct.2 at 12:50 pm
    big s: obviously, you can have any opinion you want, but the two above are crap…how is dude overrated when he gets insufficient press?..maybe he is soft, but basing that label off of 2 1st rd exits is dumb. dude played the 5 when he was at his lightest NBA weight…dude manned up when the team’s franchise player quit…he may be quiet but he’s tougher than you!

  • James aka The Artist Formerly Known as Krayzie Bone Posted: Oct.2 at 1:04 pm
    I would say Dirk is the most unclutch franchise player of the last decade. Dirk is a fantastic talent IMO, but he wilts under pressure. I was looking online (may have been basketball reference), and his field goal percentage on potential game tying or go ahead baskets in the fourth was like .143. Bosh has flaws, but I’ve seen him actually hit the clutch 3 on more than one occasion in the past couple of years, and that is clearly not his game.

  • Bryan Posted: Oct.2 at 1:13 pm
    Iverson as a waste of talent is a joke. Sometimes I wonder if the site moderators send people in here to say inflamatory sh*t just to get the conversation going.

  • Chris Posted: Oct.2 at 1:24 pm
    I’d rather have Caron, but as far as bigs though, Bosh is probably in the right spot.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 1:31 pm
    James: I’d love to see that link. Pre-2006 Dirk had more clutch shots than I could remember. Post 2006 Dirk didn’t have one.

  • Paps Posted: Oct.2 at 1:35 pm
    He’ll crack the top 20 soon and top 10 when he peaks! Bosh is a great player who puts the work in.

  • Bryan Posted: Oct.2 at 1:35 pm
    I thought I’d be missing stuff around here with the new job but I guess not.

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.2 at 1:39 pm
    You’ve overestimated this place Shia.

  • B. Long Posted: Oct.2 at 1:41 pm
    I think Chris Bosh is a good basketball player.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 1:42 pm
    @Bryan….:the site moderators already answered you (although you couldn’t figure out without actually posting…)

  • Allenp Posted: Oct.2 at 1:43 pm
    Iverson wasted some talent….Yep, I said and I’ve said it many times. He should have put in more work on his jmper, worked more on common off of screens and done a much better job being a harassing on the ball defender. He also could have come to training camp in better shape most years. That said, to say he’s the biggest waste of talent in the league in 10 years overlooks some phenomenal talent wasters like Derrick Coleman, Glenn Robinson, Darko, and a whole host of other cats whose resumes don’t even compare to Iverson’s even if their talent might.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 1:54 pm
    @Allenp….:you stole many of my arguments on the Iverson case but i can live with it…you used even 2 of my other all-time wasters in D.Coleman and Glen (don’t be fooled by Chad Ford on Darko,i saw him here,he was never something extraordinary). So, respect to Mr Allenp….

  • Bryan Posted: Oct.2 at 1:54 pm
    Wow.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 1:55 pm
    Allenp: I think that’s more focusing his talents on the wrong areas, rather than wasting it.

  • fluxland Posted: Oct.2 at 1:56 pm
    Not maximizing his talent may be better put then “criminal waste of talent”. @ Tad - what’s that supposed to mean? :P
    @Paps - that’s where the problem lies. Definition of greatness. Everyone has their own definition, criteria, expectations. It’s where the “beef” commences. Also, a little less you tube wh*ring may help towards putting work in.

  • Keith Posted: Oct.2 at 2:35 pm
    Kostas makes me dislike Europeans.

  • Mack Posted: Oct.2 at 2:36 pm
    very good under radar player he will definitely be a 20pts 10reb when his career comes to an end and i hope thats along time from now

  • James aka The Artist Formerly Known as Krayzie Bone Posted: Oct.2 at 2:36 pm
    Jukai, it may have been only in one season, but if I could remember where I saw it, I would put it up. Anyway, not disrespect to Dirk, I don’t hate his game at all, but I have noticed that after that fateful date, he seems to be unable to do it in the clutch. And to be fair to him, to be bad in the clutch, you have to be the one trying in the clutch. I would take dirk on my team as a free agent no problem (this is fantasy land. I know it couldnt’ happen for cap reasons).

  • Keith Posted: Oct.2 at 2:37 pm
    AllenP: You missed out that Iverson was rubbish at practice.

  • Gerard Himself Posted: Oct.2 at 2:38 pm
    Keith, I’m hurt. You’ve got two Dutch guys on the Bucks and now this? Ouch. You break my Dutch heart.

  • H to the Izzo Posted: Oct.2 at 2:41 pm
    Europeans suck.

  • Keith Posted: Oct.2 at 2:43 pm
    Europeans are overrated.

  • Keith Posted: Oct.2 at 2:45 pm
    I feel it best to clarify - I am English.

  • H to the Izzo Posted: Oct.2 at 2:46 pm
    Europeans would vote for Sarah Palin…twice.

  • Keith Posted: Oct.2 at 2:50 pm
    Mainly because she’s hot.

  • Allenp Posted: Oct.2 at 2:52 pm
    Look, I think Iverson is second only to Isiah Thomas as the greatest little men of all time. I think he is fourth behind Wilt, Jordan and Kobe as the greatest pure scorers the league has ever seen…I also think he could have been much better. I don’t know if that’s wasting talent, or not maximizing talent, but it’s something.

  • fluxland Posted: Oct.2 at 2:57 pm
    Not enough practice?

  • Keith Posted: Oct.2 at 2:57 pm
    Wilt Chamberlain wasted talent. He could have learnt to run faster. Pointless thing to say AllenP, EVERYBODY could improve their game.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 2:59 pm
    James: He had an AWFUL season last year, but I really hate people that have whined about Dirk not being clutch. His mentality is as soft as a table cloth, and as such, the critics that have bashed him over his game has hurt him as of recent. Still, before his loss to the Warriors, Dirk was hitting clutch shots constantly. It’s very sad suddenly everyone forgets all the big shots he hit.

  • H to the Izzo Posted: Oct.2 at 3:01 pm
    Co-Sign Jukai.Dirk has very much become the ‘cool’ hate figure.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 3:03 pm
    Keith: Chamberlain was one of the most mobile centers of all-time. Please don’t say things you don’t know anything about. When he got into his 30s and put on too much muscle, he did slow down, but back in his hayday, he could run the fast break as good as Amare (supposably).

  • Allenp Posted: Oct.2 at 3:06 pm
    Keith, if you have potential and you could reach the full limits of that potential by putting in more work, but you decide against it, what is that?…. Understand, that I still think that Iverson is one of the greatest players of all time, but how good would he have been if he had the work ethic of Dwayne Wade, Kobe Bryant, or even Dirk! This is not to say that Iverson doesn’t work at all, he’s clearly added a much better mid-range game in his later years, but from what I’ve read he doesn’t put in the dedicated gym time that certain other greats put in. That’s a waste in my mind.

  • Allenp Posted: Oct.2 at 3:10 pm
    And when I say “read” I’m talking about his autobiography along with the accounts of the beat writers and others around the Sixers…If Iverson had improved his jumper to the level of Isiah Thomas’s jumper, do y’all realize how unstoppable he would have been? This a guy who had the league ban his favorite off the dribble after his second year and never missed a beat!…As a fan of basketball and Iverson, I am saddened that he never did put in that extra work just because I wonder if he had done that would he have the ring he wants so badly right now. I think he would. I think a maxed out Iverson could have beaten the Lakers in 2001, and at the very least he would have gotten another shot at a ring.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 3:15 pm
    Wow, Allenp… I don’t want to play role reversal and defend Iverson, but I think Iverson FOCUSED on the wrong thing. I also believe he FOCUSED on the wrong thing because he had no one else on his team. Why learn how to take jumpers off screen or to control a steadier tempo for people to get into scoring positions or catch-and-shoot three pointers when there is no one on your team good enough for you to bother to learn this? So he learned to over-control the ball to make up for his teams lack of scoring, he practiced on kicking out to players who never moved but hung around in one place, he worked, everyday, on taking the ball to the basket or prepping up his shot with a bunch of dribbles soley because he HAD to on Philidelphia.
    You may think it’s wasted talent, I say he just put his talent in the wrong areas.
    But please, continue bashing AI. This is interesting.

  • Keith Posted: Oct.2 at 3:18 pm
    Jukai: You missed my point. My point being that everyone can improve and that it doesn’t matter how good you are in one particular area, there is always that room to improve.
    AllenP: I agree that Iverson could have been better but to single him out is absurd.

  • jdn41 Posted: Oct.2 at 3:22 pm
    WOW WOW THIS IS BULLCRAP (pardon my montreal french)bosh is beyond deserving of being top 15 why does everything in toronto seem to be underappreciated, like we even the cn tower aint that special anymore :(

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 3:27 pm
    @Keith….:Wilt was the most gifted athletically bigman to ever play the game,and according to be Bill Russell one of the greatest athletes regardless of sport to come out of America in the 20th century. Peter Vecsey calls him the “best running goliath” basketball has ever seen. I have read so many stories about his almost unbelivable athletisism that to see you writing that he could have learned to run faster is like to write that Jordan could have try and be more competitive…strange (to say the least)

  • B. Long Posted: Oct.2 at 3:27 pm
    Jukai is obviously the oldest person to ever comment on slamonline because he apparently saw Wilt play live. Thanks for the knowledge, grandpa.

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.2 at 3:30 pm
    I thought I was……great success!!!!

  • marc Posted: Oct.2 at 3:33 pm
    22? are you serious? this guy is top 10 for sure!

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 3:34 pm
    @Jukai….:i cannot believe you where able to write those things..!!(hope you didn’t copy-paste from somewhere…)it seems that you can learn after all through videogames…(ok, i am stupidly ironic once again, Good points all of them)

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.2 at 3:37 pm
    the selfless promoter is now in the building

  • Allenp Posted: Oct.2 at 3:43 pm
    Jukai, Iverson played the same game in Philly that he played in Georgetown. He didn’t learn those things in Philly, he perfected them in Philly. I’ve followed the dude for a while, and he’s gotten better at certain skills and not better at others. He should be a better shooter. He should be better at using screens. (Sidenote: Larry Brown had Iverson coming of the same down screens that Reggie Miller came off, the only difference was that Iverson was not close to the shooter that Reggie was and used those screens to get into pick and roll or to iso. If he was a a better shooter, he would have had more options.)…When I look at Iverson and I look at somebody like Kobe, or even Wade, I see one player who has improved some aspects of his game, and other players who have improved every aspect of their games. Now, that’s not a knock on Iverson’ greatness, just an explanation for why I believe he didn’t maximize his talent. However, I will say this, sometimes I’ve wondered if part of Iverson’s unwillingness to devote a lot of effort to offseason workouts has been the idea that he must conserve his body for the long grind of the season or it will breakdown on him. I don’t know if this is true, but it’s a theory I’ve considered.

  • Allenp Posted: Oct.2 at 3:45 pm
    Keith, I didn’t single him out. That Greek dude did that. At first I was going to jump all over the Greek dude for comparing Iverson to Marbury, but then I decided to discuss a point-of-view I have that is outside of the general consensus here at SLamonline.

  • Moose Posted: Oct.2 at 3:45 pm
    Can’t wait for the rest of the list so I can compare them to Bosh . . . it will probably turn out to be a good ranking, but if this happens next year, look for CB4 to be higher. Anyways, he’s number one, two or three on the NBA “Top 50 Personalities” list. Along with Boom Dizzle and Dwight Howard. Feel free to add to my claim.

  • Jesse G Posted: Oct.2 at 3:45 pm
    Chris Bosh sucks

  • fluxland Posted: Oct.2 at 3:48 pm
    Blane Harrington >>>>>> Chris Bosh

  • Bryan Posted: Oct.2 at 3:54 pm
    A “maxed out” iverson maybe would have pushed the Lakers to six games come on now the hyperbole is a little crazy. A “maxed out” Iverson would be what exactly? 40ppg? The man can still average 30 a game if he wanted and drop 7-9 assists with no f*cking teamates…what could he have done?

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.2 at 3:57 pm
    I swear I sometimes feel like I’m in the abyss of basketball misunderstanding when I’m here. Hypothecial question, to anyone:
    Since A.I. has been the topic of discussion for a while, let me post this question. Allenp has twice named two players, Dwyane Wade and Kobe Bryant as guys who elevated their games and I can only assume that Allen also thinks their title wins came due in some part because of it. Is it more their determination and skill honing or the fact that they both played on equal ground with a dominant big man in their best career years?

  • Moose Posted: Oct.2 at 3:57 pm
    Bryan, AI is still playing hard, so obviously he can’t average 30 points and 9 dimes. You say that he could “if he wanted” . . . well he DOES want that, and he’s coming damn close to it, but he’s declining.

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.2 at 4:00 pm
    A follow up as well: If A.I. played with Shaq from let’s say, 1999 to 2003, does ANYONE think they wouldn’t have shared a trophy or three at the end of each playoff? It’s exactly what Allen has craved since the start of his career and never really has enjoyed, a great system, a star big man and someone else great to push him to be the guy to take the offseason and his skill sets and set them off even more than he already has.

  • Moose Posted: Oct.2 at 4:00 pm
    The SAME dominant big man, I might add Eboy. Shaq makes his teammates better. That is that. Allenp, feel free to argue it. But it is true.

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.2 at 4:02 pm
    And yes, Shaq is a bad example TODAY but during the Lakers run and even the Heat’s title run, he was the most dominant player in the league in LA and a still-powerful force in Miami that title season.

  • Paps Posted: Oct.2 at 4:02 pm
    Dwight is next

  • Z Posted: Oct.2 at 4:04 pm
    A lot of people say that AI can’t play the point (esp. Jukai). I have to disagree. AI never wanted to play the point and never really does even when is asked to do so (bringing the ball up the court is NOT playing the point). However, he could have been one of the greatest point guard off all time. He has the court vision, the ball handling abilities and the leadership skills required to master the position. Now it’s too late, he’s too stuck in his ways.
    The thing with playing AI at the 2 is that it totally fu-ks up your matchups on D. You need to cover for him.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 4:06 pm
    i was just wondering how many comments would have followed if i had called “waste of talent” SHAQ instead A.I. (not as hard as you think to back it up, either…)

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.2 at 4:06 pm
    And no, I’m not jocking Shaq, just saying, perimiter players that are dominant and can win titles don’t do it alone when they’re only 5′ 10″, 170 lbs. Wade, Jordan, Kobe- 6′ 4″/6′6″/6′7″ plus they all had really great teammates. A.I?….. hard to remember the greatness he rode with since he came through.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 4:07 pm
    again..:WOW!!!

  • Bryan Posted: Oct.2 at 4:07 pm
    I meant that as a game to game basis moose. Now the reality is he has another domniant ball stopper on his team in Melo. If he was option A and had a legit option B as oppsed to a and a1 that he has in Denver he undoubtly still could put up 30 ppg with ease.

  • Bryan Posted: Oct.2 at 4:10 pm
    Actually I take that back I was talking about what he was doing alone in Philly he was putting up 31 and 7 my point was what more could he do. I guess that was lost on you.

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.2 at 4:10 pm
    In closing, Allen is the one guy I would love to see get a ring, more than any other player in the league as simple as that. I think he’s going to be hard pressed to close out his career with one, though.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 4:12 pm
    @Eboy…:common man ,i was just kiding,…

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 4:15 pm
    Z: The big point we disagree on (and I think we had this discussion) is that he doesn’t have the court vision. I think Iverson is a fantastic passer, and when he sees someone, he can get them the ball. That being said, I think he sees mostly him, his defender, and the basket, and not the whole court.
    @Allenp: I DEFFINITELY disagree about Allen Iverson being the same player he was at Georgetown. His offensive arsenal improved drastically once he got into the NBA… That being said, I can’t comment on Larry-Brown-Pick-and-Roll thing. Maybe I am a bit off.
    @Kostas Tsartsaris: Thanks for the compliment. Now suck my
    @BLong: I’m able to comment on older players because I do something called read about players I haven’t seen. You know, the thing you DIDN’T DO WHAT-SO-EVER when you wrote that article about Ricky Rubio.

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.2 at 4:16 pm
    Eboy: Ok, i’ll take the bait. I honestly think it is a mixture of both at play. Saying Shaq helped you win a championship is like saying Myles Brown was a little disappointed that Scarlett Johannsen got married. No sh*t. But I also can see that each player elevated their game and were rewarded for it by the attention Shaq would get from opposing defenses.Now, as far Iverson is concerned, I don’t see what Allenp is saying as bashing Ivy. He is giving him constructive criticism. He is saying out loud what many people have thought: what if Iverson were to work on the little things in practice that were weaker in his game. Granted, Iverson exerts so much energy in every game he plays in that he probably doesn’t have much left to give in practice. But I just feel that it is a wrong phrasing of words to say that Iverson “wasted” his talents. Wasting is something that Michael Vick did for being stupid.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 4:18 pm
    Eboy: I am a bit disapointed with Allen Iverson in Denver. I know Denver itself is atrocious, but it is clear from watching the team that Iverson is uncomfortable shooting off screens or slashing without the ball or creating passing lanes for players who can finish. Obviously if Iverson played with a Lakers circa 2000 or Bulls circa 92, he’d win rings… but like, I think if he played with a team like the Celtics, they may not, because I’m not sure if Iverson can “not be the man.” He’s too old to lead a team and maybe to old to change his style. Time will tell, though.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 4:19 pm
    TADOne: I can’t think of anything to disagree with in anything you just said, but since I’m responding to everything, I felt I should write something anyway.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 4:21 pm
    @Jukai…:uhm…delicious!!!!

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 4:24 pm
    Kostas Tsartsaris, it’s incredibly it. It seems the people you disagree with learn everything about basketball through video games, while the people you agree with are geniuses who must have copied-and-pasted from another website. Do you ever feel your logic may be a bit off?

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.2 at 4:25 pm
    Well, I clearly did something wrong if you can’t find anything to disagree with. Give me a minute and let me revise my statement.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 4:28 pm
    @Jukai…:ehh…not really.i feal great with my logic!!!( my doctor seems to disagree though but he is just an old man…still thinks that Adler and Jung are relevant…)

  • James the balla Posted: Oct.2 at 4:32 pm
    lol im good, i knew it was 22 … garbage.

  • Dutch Rich Posted: Oct.2 at 4:32 pm
    As far as the Snoop comparison, try M-1 from Dead Prez.

  • James the balla Posted: Oct.2 at 4:33 pm
    i would have put Bosh at like 42 :D … lets make this post get to 260 comments

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.2 at 4:35 pm
    Sigh.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 4:36 pm
    @JAMES…:not that easy cool…let me saw you : you start by changing your name to greek(i suggest Sofoklis Schortsiantis).then…

  • matt Posted: Oct.2 at 4:38 pm
    Some of you people clearly dont watch any games that arent on Sunday afternoon or Thursday night. How many franchise guys that are >6′10 are the ‘clutch’ ‘go to guy’ on their team? The offence doesnt go through them in the end, and even including that Bosh has hit several game winning shots (considering he rarely gets that chance as theyve had VC and TJ taking them). And the people hwo call him soft clearly just dont have NBA League Pass. He drives enough to balance his offence, and while doing so was top 10 in the NBA in FTs per game (one of the best barometers for supposed ‘toughness’). Not only that but his first few years in the legaue he came in as a skinny 19 year old and was thrust into being a starting center and playing the beasts of the league down low while doing an admirable job. If youre going to only watch your own team and TNT then dont run your mouth about other ones.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 4:39 pm
    How do you say ‘tool’ in Greek? Anyone?

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.2 at 4:41 pm
    No argument from me Matt. 26 more days…..

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 4:41 pm
    “ergaleio”.you want me to do something with it..?!

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.2 at 4:41 pm
    “Tool in Greek”. You’re welcome.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 4:42 pm
    and in romanian is “unealta”

  • James the balla Posted: Oct.2 at 4:43 pm
    Yo Jukai, i cant find tool in greek anywheres. But hammer in french is macteau (mac-toe)

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 4:44 pm
    in Mandarin is “GONGJU”

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 4:45 pm
    again..:in greek is “ergaleio”…

  • James the balla Posted: Oct.2 at 4:49 pm
    Thanks Kostas, hes going to find a tricky yet very comical way to call me a tool because Chris Bosh is the best player in the game. It goes 1) Bosh 2) 3) 4) 5)Kobe 6)Jordan … Bosh deserves more than one. He is actually un believable. I like the “ONE” game winner he had, from three. It was pretty sweet, it looked like the hunch back of Notre Dame was trying to throw a curve ball … but it went in.

  • Z Posted: Oct.2 at 4:50 pm
    @ Jukai : we’ll have to agree to disagree on the whole court vision thing. I think that Iverson somewhat believes that a lot of his contested shots have a better chance of going in then some uncontested shots by mere mortals. I guess what I’m trying to say is that he sees people, he’s just not a willing passer.
    However, we do agree on one thing : whether he won’t or can’t play the point, the fact of the matter is that he’s too stuck in his ways to changer his style.

  • Allenp Posted: Oct.2 at 4:52 pm
    TAD got what I was trying to say. I’m cool if one person understood my point.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 4:53 pm
    @James…:don’t worry cool,now he is just pissed off by my 4:41 answer. he always needs time to regrup…he is naughty but not quick..anyway. You love your friends with their habits we say here in Romania and we all love Jukai..

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 4:53 pm
    class is over my little friends !!!
    good night!! Noapte buna! Kali nixta!! WAN AN !!

  • Allenp Posted: Oct.2 at 4:54 pm
    One more thing. Can anybody look at the way players like Kobe, Lebron and Wade have improved their skill set and say that Iverson has seen the same improvement? I’m NOT arguing that Iverson has improved. Icould probably provide and extensive list of things he’s better at now than early in his career. But, when I look at the strides somebody like Kobe has made, or even somebody like Duncan, man I wish Iverson had done the same. He was the next generation Isiah Thomas, but he went in another direction.

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.2 at 4:55 pm
    Romanian’s love Jukai? It all makes sense now…

  • James the balla Posted: Oct.2 at 4:55 pm
    I want to hear something smart and semi-genius come out of his mouth. Or he just wont say anything until tomorrows post.

  • Z Posted: Oct.2 at 4:55 pm
    I’ll say something controversial : Allen Iverson is lazy. No, seriously. When has it become acceptable to basically not improve because you are giving your all during games ? We applaud him for going in the paint while being so frail… but yet we don’t blame him for never trying to actually work on his body and had bulk to his frame. As Allenp pointed out, he never bothered to learn how to play off the ball, or improve his jumpshot, or run the O. Theses are all things that are done during practices. I know it’s kind of a running gag now… but why does he get a pass for not caring about practice? Because of his heart? Whatever.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 4:59 pm
    Romanian’s love me? Are their any Romanian chicks?

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 4:59 pm
    Seriously though, I need to get laid

  • Allenp Posted: Oct.2 at 5:01 pm
    Z, I would argue that Iverson’s jumper has improved, but not nearly enough. He’s gotten better at using screens (he never used staggered screens in college) but not nearly proficient enough. As for running the team, I can’t argue about that. But, I do get tired of people talking about how hard Iverson plays in games when you discuss ways he could improve. Then again, we seem to give lots of players (Steve Nash) a pass when it comes to not bulking up as a way to improve their games. For some reason, basketball fans aren’t bothered by that. I guess it’s similar to the way baseball fans don’t mind beer guts on sluggers.

  • Allenp Posted: Oct.2 at 5:02 pm
    Jukai needs to get laid.
    Is anybody here remotely surprised?
    (sorry, that was too easy.)

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 5:03 pm
    Was Kostas Tsartsaris calling me slow witted because I stepped away from my computer for literally four minutes to do work?
    …
    …
    Wow.
    No wonder he thinks Bosh and Iverson are wasted talents! FOCUS MAN, IT’S ALL ABOUT FOCUS!

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 5:04 pm
    You know Allenp, I’m not going to give you the material if you’re just going to restate it in a totally non-witty way!

  • James the balla Posted: Oct.2 at 5:04 pm
    People really dont like you Jukai eh lol

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 5:06 pm
    ROFL LOLZERS you know what’s worse than being hated though? Having your girlfriend scream Bosh’s name in bed. I’m sure you agree James.

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.2 at 5:09 pm
    Z: Whoa now fella. I re-read Allenp’s comments and he never said that Ivy never bothered to learn or improve in practice. He did say that Ivy didn’t put his full self into practice at times and because of that he hurt improvement in his all around game. It’s not like Allen was sitting in a damn corner listening to his Ipod and just laughing at everyone running drills. Iverson played hurt in a ton of games. Because of his injuries, he would sit out of practices where contact would be involved, but he has improved his game a ton since his rookie year. I don’t see Iverson as lazy, I just see him as someone who has such amazing natural talent that the game comes easier to him than most. Thus he probably has been mentally removed from the little things because he may have figured whats the point. Either way, I would take that over a player like Vince who openly quits during games.

  • Sam Mitchell's Conscience Posted: Oct.2 at 5:12 pm
    This is about 8-10 spots below where he should be. Clearly whoever decided on these rankings has never watched Chris play. He is anything but a soft player. He gets close to 10 FTA per game. He scores 22 points while taking less than 15 FGA per game, indicating that the addition of JO isn’t going to hurt his offensive numbers, and possibly improve them due to the open space. But whatever, it doesn’t matter where some nut thinks Bosh is ranked. It is one man’s (wrong) opinion that he’s entitled to.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 5:13 pm
    James, I could be a lot more insulting. I could point out that your irrational arguing about Bosh is similar to a twelve-year-old trying to change everyone’s opinion on advanced astroquantum physics.
    It involves nonsensical hypotheticals where you use cap lock and tell us to “imagine” him on other teams. It involves you spitting in our faces “OMG STATS MEAN NOTHING!!!!!!” and constantly reminding that yes, Bosh is in the east, so his constant playoff appearances and all-star invitations mean nothing. It also involves us blatantly ignoring the fact that he is able to change his game from an offensive powerhouse dropping 20-points in the NBA to a defensive stopper in the Olympics, simply due to the needs of the team. It involves you telling us that Bosh rarely takes clutch shots when power forwards/centers never take clutch shots (Horry/Fisher instead of Shaq). It also involves terrifyingly chopping sentences and the reasoning skills of a vegetable. I don’t even mean a car accident victim in a coma, I mean like, on the level of a carrot or something.
    But I’m trying to cut down on making people look stupid and being mean. It’s the whole “good person” thing, y’know?

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.2 at 5:14 pm
    Anyway, i’m off too. I could talk Iverson all day, but real life basketball awaits. Ya’ll have fun finding Jukai a desperate woman.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 5:16 pm
    but yeah OMG BOSH SUX look at his team one big man and a bunch of flat footed three point shooters and two point guards fighting over minutes to the point of being sloppy and small forwards who can dunk and do nothing else horray and he can’t take this amazing squad to the second round? WTF!!!

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.2 at 5:16 pm
    Damn, before I leave I have to give Jukai props for that carrot comment. Carry on.

  • Z Posted: Oct.2 at 5:47 pm
    Interesting, I can’t say r-a-p-e. Original comment : James say something man. Anything. You just got r—ed.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Oct.2 at 6:26 pm
    Co-sign Allenp 2:52, sorta.

  • B. Long Posted: Oct.2 at 6:27 pm
    Same sh!t, diffrent day.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Oct.2 at 6:36 pm
    AI is one of the best players, especially scorers of all time. Somebody give that man a ring already!!!!!!!!

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.2 at 6:41 pm
    wow all you cool kids are arguing? So much scrapin!!! And also cosign Teddy-The-Bear @ 6:36.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Oct.2 at 6:41 pm
    HAHA Co-Sign B. Long as well. ‘N yeah, Bosh is waaay too low, seriously.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Oct.2 at 6:43 pm
    PS: Euroleague is where players like Brandon Jennings go to BEFORE they go to the NBA. So really, you can’t compare the two. That’s why the Euroleague has to pay American ball players so much more damn dough for them to leave the NBA.

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.2 at 6:44 pm
    I wonder who they can seriously put above Bosh, i can only think of about 16 dudes i would take over him..

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.2 at 6:51 pm
    Dudes i would take over Bosh: D-Wade
    Kobe
    Lebron
    Chris Paul
    Paul Pierce
    KG
    Dwight Howard
    Deron Williams
    Stodumire
    Iverson
    Carmelo Anthony (i am ify on him)
    Yao Ming
    Tracy McGrady (also iffy because TMAC is always hurt)
    Tim Duncan
    Tony Parker
    Steve Nash
    Gilbert Arenas

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.2 at 6:51 pm
    but that is it

  • jdn41 Posted: Oct.2 at 7:28 pm
    manu is better than parker so if ull take parker, then u might as well take manu

  • B. Long Posted: Oct.2 at 7:34 pm
    I’d put Caron, Manu, and Pau on that list too, BET.

  • TDot Posted: Oct.2 at 7:36 pm
    WHAT!….HE SHOULD BE IN THE TOP 15 FOR SURE

  • Moose Posted: Oct.2 at 7:37 pm
    B. Long, I don’t know if you’d take Gasol over Bosh just cause you breathe the purple and gold, but that is not the right choice. Tell me why and maybe I’ll buy into it.

  • davidR Posted: Oct.2 at 7:39 pm
    is it just me, or is the #38 player missing?

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Oct.2 at 7:43 pm
    I’d take Bosh over Caron and Gasol…

  • Darksaber Posted: Oct.2 at 7:54 pm
    Low spot for Bosh. The list is now becoming a travesty. Based on last season’s performance, Boozer belongs around here, and Bosh slightly higher (never mind the olympics). Bosh has more potential than a lot of the players who shall probably be ahead of him.

  • B. Long Posted: Oct.2 at 7:56 pm
    @Moose:Because he plays for the Lakers. I’d take Congo over him too.

  • James the balla Posted: Oct.2 at 8:21 pm
    Hey im back … thats good Jukai. I was hoping to get belittled lol. I have big shoulders though. And did you say Bosh takes game winners unlike other big men. You mean guys like Sheed, KG, Pau, Duncan … i would call you a carrot, but i like carrots, but Chris Bosh is overrated. And so what he was on the U.S.A team … they needed guys who could fill bench spots. And yes ONE and a half games he played good defence. It was the perimeter players that helped him out so much … leading them to the right spots and than hopefully Bosh gets a block. But, i would shake your hand now and say wait until the season. Obviously i cant shake your hand … 42/43 wins, bosh adds 22.4 ppg, 9.7 boards, back up at the all-star game because the east is terrible … if Beasley doesnt get his spot. They will be around 4th or 5th spot in the playoffs, lose the first round to … i dont know, lets sayyyyy, the sixers or cleveland. And next year we will have the same conversation about potential, how good the raps will be (AGAIN) in 2009/2010, and how JO will be healthy that year. And we will watch it repeat until they trade him to Washington for Arenas, and a first round draft pick. Arenas becomes the new Vince, and Bosh fades into a Sam Perkins style of existence … orrrr the Raps are the new champs ….

  • tealish Posted: Oct.2 at 8:28 pm
    This AI discussion reminds me of that article awhile back that debates the merit of a consistent jumpshot. True, AI’s jumper isn’t the best. But that’s not his moneymaker, it’s getting to hoop. Not unlike LeBron, who gets a pass for his mediocre J because he ‘gets to the basket so dominantly’. Sure AI could’ve worked on his jumper more and his outside shot would be even more deadly. But would that result in an Allen Iverson who penetrated less? An Allen Iverson who doesn’t slice through the paint, drawing fouls, making impossible floaters against guys twice his size as much?
    I don’t know. I didn’t think so — I thought a better shot helps your game no matter — but a lot of you guys were saying that same ish for LeBron.

  • tealish Posted: Oct.2 at 8:33 pm
    I liked a lot of the points Eboy brought up as well. You can’t discount the impact of teammates. AI has had the worst collection of misfits out of all the all-time greats and to deny the effect that could have on your game, is just silly.
    Allenp: Could have been an Isiah? I’d say he’s surpassed him, despite the ringless fingers. Thomas was a great general, a better true point than AI. But do you think a little of that has to do with the quality of guys each ran with?

  • Moose Posted: Oct.2 at 8:38 pm
    I thought so, B. Long. And I would take my men Kendrick Perkins, Rajon Rondo or Leon Powe over everyone on this list. Sorry that our loyalties clash here, B. Long. But I have to say it IS your year . . . if the Hornets don’t have none to say bout that. But you guys are better than my beantown boys. We’re scared, I’ll tell ya that.

  • Melo Man TO Posted: Oct.2 at 8:51 pm
    so u guys r sayin u would rather have Boozer, Rudy Gay, Baron Davis, Ginobli, tony longoria, Nowitski, billups, t-mac, and kobe over BOSH!!!!!(ok, the kobe part was cuz i hate him) but stylll,,, Step ur game up SLAM