The Divisive One
Hate Or Love: When Kobe’s Involved There Is No Middle Ground
Written By Khalid Salaam
Is Kobe the most divisive person in America? Ben and I have discussed this question in the office several times and he posed the question on the site yesterday. While I’ve often disagreed with his place on the love/hate hierarchy (there are others who I feel create the same level of both unadulterated devotion and unabashed vitriol—Oprah, Bill and Hilary Clinton, R. Kelly, etc) its obvious that his group of supporters and detractors are continuously energized by his actions. The mere mention of his name of the Slam website causes responses in which the commentary is so personal and so over the top that it blurs the line between personal opinion and personal disaffection. To put it short, mofo’s be tripping.
From day one it’s been like this. Beyond his Finals appearance this year and the previous three championships he’s won, beyond the so called beef with you know who and beyond the incident in Colorado there are other reasons why the line of demarcation is so visible. They are as follows—
Sense of Entitlement:
Kobe came in to the League basically acting as if everyone should immediately trust and acknowledge his ability. Which for a guy straight from the preps rank was and still is ludicrous, but Kobe totally acted as if his you know what didn’t stink. Like the bratty rich kid stereotype in which Kobe’s style seemed to come from, people hated him if only because he seemed like he had everything handed to him and many people by reflex are turned off by that mentality. Kobe behaved and carried himself like an elitist and even if he played himself off as the boy next door, people saw through what they assumed was a façade. Playing in the city of Los Angeles, a place many people to be literally the phoniest city on the planet didn’t help. LA is seen by many as the physical embodiment of American greed and his embrace of the city only reinforced the most negative suspicions.
Cloning MJ:
When is imitation the result of studying another person’s success and using the best attributes of this person to improve your abilities and when is it just basic copying, devoid of any of your personal traits to the point where its just you riding the jock of another man? Kobe is right on the line with that. He talks like MJ, walks like MJ, shoots his fadeaway like MJ, everything like MJ. People want originality but they will accept copycats, as long as it’s not so obvious. And Kobe’s is often, too easy to identify.
Supreme Talent:
Copying someone as revered as Jordan may cause some grumbles but it’s not easy. His ardent fanbase grew so quickly and swelled so gloriously mainly due to the fact the Kobe is nasty. Really undeniably nasty. His ability to get his shot off and the variety in which he scores is in the present day NBA without peer and on par with the greatest scorers and players this sport has ever witnessed.
His Wifey:
Whether or not people consciously are aware of this or not, people are judged on the company they keep. Is it anyone’s business? Hell no and the current climate of personal information being open for the public to dissect and comment on is something we’ll look back on in 10 years and note it as the point when we started on our downward spiral as a species. Nevertheless, people are consumed with celebrity lives and all the controversies surrounding him and his wife make for great entertainment for lots of people. The fact that he, much like quite a few Black male athletes (but not MJ interestingly enough), married a non-Black woman is proof positive of several things. If you are affected by the cultural climate that says certain preconditioned stereotypes about beauty are true, then you see manifested in Kobe’s wife his acceptance of that stereotype. And you love it, whether you know it or want to admit it. Conversely, if you are of the thinking that this particular stereotype is a side effect of a calculated conditioning that devalues something that he should love, and that seeing Kobe envelope himself in this anyway, you hate it.
Popularity:
My loving mother doesn’t know anything about the NBA and doesn’t care to know. And even she knows about Kobe Bean Bryant. When people transcend popular culture and become part of the fabric that binds us all in to a bigger familiarity, those people become mega-stars. Kobe by the impact of his career and playing in Hollywood is indeed a mega-star and exists in the rarefied air of the truly famous. Lots of people, I would say half at least are legitimately enraptured of the rich and famous. Three outta ten are envious of them and two outta ten are fine with their celebritydom but do not allow it to affect their lives. But ten out ten know of them and because of his sheer popularity people have their opinions of him. All the other things about him would not matter as much if people didn’t know who he was. It fuels everything else. And it will continue until he retires and is out of the everyday public eye.
141 Responses to “The Divisive One”
Jun.14 at 9:43 pm
Captain America says:
Most of the stuff is way over the top. There are many who are like Kobe, a high octane personality with sharp edges. He is a perfectionist who expects perfection from others. He is an incredible worker who expects other to do the same. You see this personality type in business all the time. I don’t envy his team mates and family members.
Jun.14 at 9:59 pm
Mo Charlo says:
Who wrote this? Kind of lacking a certain professionalism that I come to expect from Slamonline. Couldn’t get someone to proofread this thing? Next time we get a random hater to opine about one of the most complex characters of basketball history, can I do it?
Jun.14 at 10:04 pm
Joe A says:
I think the kobe hatred would die down if the comparisons to MJ stop. Honestly Kobe is a more talented and luckier Stephon Marbury if anything.Think about it, they both are notorious for giving up on their teammates, both refuse to ever admit their wrong and both ended their best chances of winning a championship (steph forcing the trade away from kg and the t-wolves, kobe allegedly forcing la to trade shaq.)
Jun.14 at 10:11 pm
Eboy says:
I think I figured out who wrote this.
Jun.14 at 10:30 pm
Double R says:
As far as the “wifey” part, I am of the opinion that a person should be able to date/marry anyone they want regardless of race or color whether white, black, red, green or indigo without there being a stereotypical reason.
Jun.14 at 10:35 pm
Double R says:
Eboy I was going to say Ryan but the person wrote that he talked about it with Ben in the office so I’m going to say Khalid. To echo what Mo Charlo said, didn’t Slam (specifically Lang if I remember correctly) get on ESPN for doing the Isiah story a while back without attaching a name to the report?
Jun.14 at 10:35 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
Written by Khalid Tabari Salaam….. And yes you SHOULD be able to marry who you want. But many people still have lots of issues. It is what it is.
Jun.14 at 10:37 pm
Double R says:
Khalid enlighten me on the stereotype of beauty and what several things is it “proof positive of.”
Jun.14 at 10:38 pm
Double R says:
If it was a weekday this would already have 1,000 posts.
Jun.14 at 10:40 pm
John D says:
^ Seriously. I always hate when people make a big deal out of what race someone’s spouse is.
Jun.14 at 10:46 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
john: why? i’m curious…. double r: enlighten yourself
Jun.14 at 10:46 pm
t4inc says:
Kobe is the Incrediboy to MJ’s Mr. Incredible. A crazy parody with sinister undertones. It’s downright creepy that he even copies the way MJ talks. Moves, I can handles — I mean, if I had a cent for every person who tried to copy MJ’s moves, I’d be richer than Shaq — but walking and talking like the GOAT? That’s downright creepy. Subconsciously, we reject Kobe the same way we instinctively know that a digital rendering of a living person, no matter how well-wrought, is a fake. I wonder if he looks in his mirror at night and says to himself “You’re Jordan… You’re Jordan…” Besides, after Game 4, Kobe should NEVER, EVER be compared to MJ. Even Wade is closer to MJ than Kobe has been on the Finals stage — man brought his team back down from 2-0 to win the title? Kobe? Lost a 24-point lead and shot 6-19. Can you imagine the GOAT losing a lead that big? Hell, no!
Jun.14 at 10:47 pm
Joe A says:
yeah,I don’t really see the deal with kobe’s wife. I know tons of kobe haters (hell, I am one but to a lesser degree)and his wife never comes up as a reason for the hate.
Jun.14 at 10:49 pm
Eboy says:
Boy, I’m smart.
Jun.14 at 10:55 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
joe a: think about it, why do you think that is?
Jun.14 at 11:04 pm
floe says:
cos kobe’s wife is uh.. not the stereotype of any sort of beauty ?
Jun.14 at 11:04 pm
Hursty says:
answer: possibly yes.
Jun.14 at 11:13 pm
floe says:
i agree with the lack of originality, i also think he is truly talented but i also believe he is a douche. now the nature of the universe dictates that with a guy like that people either love him for his skills or hate him for his persona or find themselves attracted to the arrogance.
Jun.14 at 11:29 pm
Joe A says:
khalid: What you mean? Do you think its a sub conscious hate that he is living up to a stereotype? Amongst my friends, I don’t think that’s the case, but I kind of see your point. It wasn’t too long ago that Terrell Owens caused an uproar for the commercial he did with a white actress and he was accused of perpetrating a stereotype.
Jun.14 at 11:38 pm
Hursty says:
I see this post comment section going to at LEAST 200-probably more in the 350-400 range because of said issues. have fun.
Jun.15 at 12:36 am
Holly MacKenzie says:
Oh Khalid. I need to get myself to the dome for a visit so I can join in on these Kobe convos in person. I’ve got too many thoughts to even begin typing them out. This piece brings up thoughts and questions that go way beyond Kobe for me and I especially like what you said about the ridiculous amount of personal information we DO have access to in today’s world.
Jun.15 at 12:42 am
Diogo says:
Can’t we judge athletes by their abilities, and not by their actions? No. We don’t judge anyone that way, athletes or else. The fact that we judge is what is wrong. Hated or loved, divisive or not, famous or invisible, you can pinpoint a Kobe Bryant in any segment of society. I see Kobes at work, trying to screw people over for some position or credit. I see Kobes on excessively dedicated nerds, doing nothing but perfecting themselves in their area of interest. Overly ambitions people are all over, with aspirations that probably won’t come true. We don’t judge those people with the same hate/love we judge Kobe. I don’t judge anymore, there is no love or hate, just admiration. I wish I could be as determined as he, but without the flaws. The flaws are, however, probably what put him there, a side-effect of his willingness. All I know is, when I turn on ESPN, I want fun, I want the feeling, I want to be transported somewhere only truly gifted people can get. When I turn it off, the show is over, I go back to my life, feeling better about myself, or maybe sad if my team loses, but feeling something. The show is about the magic, not the magician.
Jun.15 at 1:09 am
John D says:
I wasn’t saying that you did Khalid, I just mean in general. I don’t think it should be a big deal in the year 2008.
Jun.15 at 1:10 am
Hursty says:
well said Diogo.
Jun.15 at 1:11 am
TonyG says:
not hard to say why so many hate him..the closest thing to Jordan, and everybody knows the world’s feelings towards Mike..arrogance..bad teammate and leader for years..alleged rapist..snitched on Shaq after he got caught in Colorado..had part in the breakup of a near-dynasty..sabotaged his team’s chances in the 2004 finals..
Jun.15 at 1:20 am
Hursty says:
um what Tony G? he lost on surpose?!?!?
Jun.15 at 1:21 am
The Biz says:
I hate him because of the whole I wanna be MJ maybe if he tried being better than MJ he would be a different person
Jun.15 at 1:22 am
Hursty says:
I gotta say that I thought the article would be longer/more in deep considering the individual but you sumed it up nicely Khalid.
Jun.15 at 1:40 am
Hursty says:
the reason Tmac is not as good as his 2004 self is because they wanted Kobe to be the next-big-thing. Its a conspiracy I tells ya!
Jun.15 at 2:20 am
TonyG says:
no he didn’t lose on purpose(I hope not)..but if you saw the series, you would have seen the terrible shot selection in double coverage and driving into triple coverage..he took 30 more shots than Shaq on 20% less shooting..Shaq was being single covered in that series..Hollinger rated it as one of the worst finals performances of all-time in his latest article..
Jun.15 at 2:37 am
Hursty says:
I saw game 5 in detroit. that was bad, I was too young to realise how…bad? his shot selection was. Shaq didnt shoot much that game. Slava Freakin Medvedenko was the 3rd best player that series. Payton sucked and Fish was not real good.
Jun.15 at 2:38 am
RV says:
I dont see a reason for the hate against what Khalid wrote, what he said may not apply to everyone, but it applies to SOMEONE out there. Whether we like it or not those reasons exists. Personally, i love Kobe’s abilities, well-rounded game, his drive and his dedication to the game. Of the reasons mentioned though, the only thing that rubs me the wrong way is him copying MJ and the sense of entitlement. I’m not bothered so much by the fact that he had it good growing up, but rather that he can’t seem to decide who he is. Its ok to be educated, to enunciate, to know the difference between there and their, its ok to have friends wearing Ecko and friends wearing Armani. Its ok to cuss with your friends and hold back the profanity in an interview, but when you appear take on a different personality in each different situation, how can you be seen as “real”?
Jun.15 at 2:39 am
Hursty says:
Slava wasnt good-but Wallacex2 didnt defend him. Ben could play D then thoughon Shaq. Kobe couldnt deal with Rip but payton was on him more than Kobe but Kobe got worse against Prince except for Game 2?3?
Jun.15 at 2:40 am
People's Princess says:
Co-sign diogo..It’s symptomatic of the American set of values that a person who pursues athletic perfection,regardless of the cost to his “public image”, is subjected to scrutiny worthy of a Presidential candidate..At the end of the day,sport is supposed to be the expression of your creativity and joi de vivre..If that seems Pollyanna-ish just think back to the first time that you played hoops..To b*tch and moan that a certain player doesn’t conform to the public’s image of a “humble,thankful-for-being-there,quiet” superstar..Yes I do admire Kobe and I do not apologize for it..
Jun.15 at 2:40 am
Hursty says:
Hi RV.
Jun.15 at 2:41 am
Hursty says:
Hi PP. prepare to be gold(en) in a few days. Get my email?
Jun.15 at 2:48 am
RV says:
As far as copying MJ, what fan hasn’t stuck their tongue out, tried to take off from the FT line, jumped and punched the air? Early on it was probably done consciously. If you grew up admiring MJ then some things more than likely stuck and you ended up doing them unconsciously. Kobe however, is still knowingly doing those things. Everything seems calculated and planned. I hate it because it seems like he’s more preoccupied with being MJ than just playing the game as it unfolds. He’s too good for that. The fact that one game he wants to be Magic and only pass and the next he wants to be Wilt and score 100, it makes me hate that he just won’t play ball, play the game as its unfolding, react, don’t act, that’s when he plays great and is Kobe Bean Bryant.
Jun.15 at 2:51 am
RV says:
Hey Hursty, i hear the rockets are looking to trade up in the draft..
Jun.15 at 2:53 am
DP says:
Hursty, wats good man. The only thing I don’t enjoy about his Kobe is his b*tch ass wife. That mothaf*cker is a gold-digger and I don’t see why Kob is even wasting his time with her. Is Kobe real? I’m going to tell the truth and say I just like to watch Kobe “the ballplayer”. I could really care less about Kobe “the person” right now. He is my boy, but hey dude does have emotion swings. shoutouts to PP and RV as well. play wit it.
Jun.15 at 2:54 am
Hursty says:
damn right, hayes, head, brooks? are on the chopping block.
Jun.15 at 2:54 am
People's Princess says:
Hey hurst..Jus mailed ya..check it out..
Jun.15 at 2:55 am
Hursty says:
haha DP
Jun.15 at 2:56 am
DP says:
And to my man that said that D-wade is closer to Jordan than Kobe, do yourself a favor and jump off a f*cking bridge. But the refs are for sure closer to MJ than Kobe. That’s for damn sure.
Jun.15 at 2:58 am
DP says:
and they like BOY YOU A FOOL. and she like BOY YOU FOOL. and he like BOY YOU A FOOL. and this blog that is coming up fellas. BOY IT’S GOING TO BE A FOOL. damn that Shawty Lo song is just stuck in my head now.
Jun.15 at 2:59 am
DP says:
Shoals is the best writer alive.
Jun.15 at 3:00 am
Hursty says:
got ya back PP
Jun.15 at 3:01 am
DP says:
Diogo spits hot fire and the truth at the same time.
Jun.15 at 3:02 am
People's Princess says:
What up Dp..To an extent I can get what RV’s trying to say..Kobe just doesn’t have that one defining “Kobe moment” that belonged to him and only him.Eg: MJ and the 63-point explosion,Bird and the 3 pt shootout,Magic jumping into Cap’s arms after his first pro game to name the defining moments of three of the biggest superstars of our game.For better or worse that initial glimpse paints a more vivid painting of that person that anything that follows Eg:MJ’s infamous Atlantic City trip,Bird’s bar-room brawl during the Finals,Magic’s incessant womanizing and getting Paul Westhead run outta town.Kobe’s misfortune came in the fact that he played in the shadow of one of the most imposing big-men of all time and his Fall came before he could establish a defining “Kobe moment” for himself..
Jun.15 at 3:03 am
tealish says:
You forgot to mention that the media perpetuates this growing attachment - be it love or hate - towards a controversial star that is able to generate the polar opposite reactions, by producing countless and sometimes trivial pieces on said enigma. It sells, I don’t blame the media at all.
Interesting piece. (see, you got me hooked)
Jun.15 at 3:06 am
Hursty says:
dead……???
Jun.15 at 3:09 am
DP says:
I love Kobe haters.
Jun.15 at 3:10 am
Hursty says:
I cant imagine them trading and getting a player above 15. No lottery team is gonna give up. Next year maybe. Not this year though. TRADE CHUCK HAYES AND LUTHER HEAD. ROCKETS DONT NEED A 6′6 PF with NO hops.skills. OR a 6′2 SG with only a 3 point shot. TRADE!!!!
Jun.15 at 3:27 am
RV says:
Hursty, its too early for this thread to be hijacked already, but i agree Luther has to go, i still like Chuck though because he’s worth more than he’s paid.
Jun.15 at 3:31 am
Hursty says:
can I email you RV?
Jun.15 at 3:37 am
RV says:
i know where nicole richie stands in this argument though…
Jun.15 at 3:38 am
Hursty says:
send tmac, scola, hayes, head for KOBE!!!
Jun.15 at 3:39 am
RV says:
Hursty, sixthman6@yahoo.com
Jun.15 at 3:40 am
RV says:
I’d send everyone but Yao, Battier and Landry.
Jun.15 at 3:41 am
Hursty says:
hahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jun.15 at 3:42 am
Hursty says:
me too. thanks RV.
Jun.15 at 3:45 am
Hursty says:
get it? Landry could be BIG in th future. 10 and 5 in 40 games as a 2nd rounder is awesome. Dude can jump too. Same stats as boozer rookie year….!
Jun.15 at 3:46 am
People's Princess says:
Hurst in 04 T Mac+viable starter+filler for Kobe would’ve been intriguing.But Kobe’s pretty much left Tmac in the dust now,man.
Jun.15 at 3:48 am
People's Princess says:
Hey Hurst,does Landry have a post up game or is he pretty much a Millsap/Maxiell clone???
Jun.15 at 3:52 am
Hursty says:
I recall strong debate on that though. Jordan (dont go all who is better here) said that he thought Tmac was better in 03 than Kobe at the time….
Jun.15 at 3:53 am
RV says:
I’m not sold on Landry 100% yet, im worried about his offensive potential, but he seems committed to working on it, he said he wants to come back as a 3point threat next yr, but i’d keep him in a kobe trade because he’d get a ton of looks within 3 feet and you know he’ll put it down over anyone.
Jun.15 at 3:54 am
knick says:
Khalid and everyone else too, enough of this boring topic. F^uck your megastar for all his controversy, cause all i am interested in is his game. His game is just not team-oriented, and he will never lead any team to the championship. He does not have any rings, you know what i mean. And his game just imploded like Dirk’s in 2006. Reality check: he might never recover. So say goodbye to his sorry ass, he will not be missed.
Jun.15 at 3:58 am
Hursty says:
Landry can post-RV sees more than I do of him. Not often enough though, the offense doesnt really involve him there though, yao was the post up dude, scola was the inside shooter/midrange and landry got putbacks, so yeh hes kinda clonish but hes got hops and hustles more than them, dude seems to be more of a loveable guy though (to me), attitude and personality wise. remember his tooth? lol. But the lakers can get fu(ked if they want him. Kobes wife= to me: not hot, same as Eva. too short and bratty looking.
Jun.15 at 4:02 am
RV says:
Landry only has a hook so far, he’s raw when it comes to offensive moves, he’s got a solid 15 foot jumper, he’s money under the hoop (either dunks it or lays it up strong) and the hook. Haven’t seen much more, but like Hursty said he doesnt get many opportunities to show a lot.
Jun.15 at 4:09 am
Hursty says:
why is Kobe perceived that way though? in such a negative light? Fish got a 13 million dollar contract the next year with g-state or something ridiculous, Shaq wanted 20+, Kobe was younger and really, really fu(king good,payton and Malone retired and shaq was 32 @ the time. What other option did they have? they couldnt have fit them all under the cap and shaq wouldnt’ve played with a sub par coach cos P Jax was leaving with Buss’s daughter on his motorbike.
Jun.15 at 4:09 am
James says:
I dont hate or love Kobe. I like him more than I dislike him. And for the record since it seems to be such an issue I have no idea what his wife looks like or what race she is.
Jun.15 at 4:13 am
RV says:
Well i think the fact that his father had a problem with his wife really put that point of view out there for the media to bite on, then i guess others followed
Jun.15 at 4:14 am
People's Princess says:
The Anti Gasol then????
Jun.15 at 4:17 am
RV says:
This is his draftnet profile :Strengths: Shows good mobility running the court … Tough nosed player who fights hard every game … Does an excellent job of obtaining space in the post where he gets his body wide for guards to make easy passes … Post footwork, shooting touch and soft hands enable him to convert most opportunities in the paint … Offensively Landry is crafty as he will use a number of fakes to get his defender off balance and draw fouls … Back to the basket skills are quite advanced, displays a nice jump hook and turnaround jumper … Shows mid range shooting ability from 14-16 feet that he makes with regularity … Underrated post passer who is unselfish and sees the floor well … Quality rebounder in his area … Fundamentally sound as he understands how to read where the ball will go on missed shots when boxing out … Upper body strength enables him to finish after contact occurs … Basketball IQ is solid as Landry understands what his strengths are on the court and rarely goes outside of his comfort range …………………i’d say its right on, but i dont remember seeing the turnaround J
Jun.15 at 4:21 am
Hursty says:
wow, nice job getting that RV. good find. stop hijacking the links!!!
Jun.15 at 6:44 am
Hursty says:
You dont go straight from 2 first round exits with a non appearance before that to winning the chip (as its said), Kobe has a fu(ked up finger(s) and he cant be expected to carry his team the entire series, yes he had a bad game but no-one really blamed Odom for his 3 other sh!tty games prior to one good half and another cr@p half after that. Im not a hater or a lover so im more objective than others but, well, it goes without saying that NOBODY who will read this or comment has ever experienced the International/national scrutiny that Bryant has received over his career. If you are as good at your job as Bryant is at his then you deserve a fu(king pay rise and promotion and in all likelihood you arent. whether youre the gas station attendant, Coles checkout kid or architect you want to be the best that you can be. To accept anything less is apathetic, so grow the fu(k up and stop critiscing something that you cant hope to come anywhere near to. People are always aiming higher- its the goal for humanity to be better than others and to succeed. Failure for highly motivated people is not an option. So what if Bryant copied MJ’s game? if your 6′6 215, with amazing ability why wouldnt you? Jordan redifined the game with athletics, marketing and was neither a saint or heretic. he fu9ked up with Juanita Jordan and the child that came out while he played with the wizards, only reason it never went nuclear was because she was paid a boatload of money to shut up-whether she was correct in her claims was irrelevant. Jordan was not perfect. Kobe in Colorado is different. Leave it at that. for the lakers to have even made the 2nd round prior to Pau was amazing in itself, they werent expected to get into the playoffs when the season started. Bynum was still sh!tty before it began, Sasha was a woman, the bench was from u14 girls netball and Odom was the 2nd banana. appreciate what Kobe has done for the game and the impact he has made on it regardless of wheher you believe he hurt/helped/hindered the game and look at it objectively. He is a brilliant player who stands alone in the NBA right now, Paul and James cant compare purely because they havent established a legacy (yet) in the League and Kobe would pull their pants down in an overall skills contest. Dude is unique and nobidy knows what makes the enigma tick. Leave it at that. Peace.
Jun.15 at 6:45 am
Hursty says:
Apologies for the spelling errors in above post.
Jun.15 at 7:26 am
mat smith says:
most pointless article ever on this site, well done
Jun.15 at 7:39 am
H to the izzo says:
I think the fact that Kobe’s wife is an idiot is more of an issue than her being latina.
Jun.15 at 7:41 am
Hursty says:
come now Izzo, surely you dont mean to ignore my um… literary masterpice?
Jun.15 at 7:47 am
H to the izzo says:
Hurst:I’m not getting the point….please explain(in less words,I’m hungover)
And I think a point could have been made that Kobe has had the most unprecedented and just plain weird prep career/childhood any superstar has ever had(probably),which may go a long way in explaining his sense of entitlement.
Jun.15 at 7:54 am
Hursty says:
I thought you didnt drink Sir Ireland? I like writing and I was totally pumped up for completely irrelevant reasons (basketball but not slam). Were you hung over reading E and Tariq on T’s ‘bet’? thats kinda outta control.
Jun.15 at 7:57 am
Hursty says:
damn deleted!!! SLAM!!!!! wtf! rude words not deleted I spose…. my bad.
Jun.15 at 8:01 am
Hursty says:
Since i cannot post what i want I will tell you something interesting. Listening Izzo? ok. Rasheed Wallace is the only player to have ever in the history of the event to have ever, ever, ever, ever(!) been ejected from the McDonalds H.S Allstar Game!!!!. I find this both disturbing and funny at the same time. That is all. ( Do I sound like Betcats?)
Jun.15 at 8:01 am
H to the izzo says:
I don’t drink beer,Hurst.Anyway,I wanted to know what point you were trying to make in the post,that’s all.And yes,the bet is going…….a bit far.
Jun.15 at 8:07 am
Hursty says:
That 1. I am actually capable of making a sustained point with legitimate points (as apposed to common perception) 2. That Kobe is not Michael. 3. that neither is perfect. 4. humans are naturally competitive if you are not you are somewhat apathetic. 5. The ‘haters’ are people who likely are jealous and incapable of actually achieving things that Kobe has done despite his detractors.
Jun.15 at 8:10 am
H to the izzo says:
1.Yes
2.Goes without saying
3.You’re damn right
4.Apathetic?Surely you can be both competitive and apathetic.
5.I disagree.
Jun.15 at 8:16 am
Hursty says:
read my big post to fully ‘understand’ what I’m trying to say for 5. Apathetic means ‘lack of caring’ etc. You wouldnt care if your apathetic, competitive= caring. not equaling apathetic (sort of, im tired)
Jun.15 at 8:21 am
H to the izzo says:
Well,I’m completely apathetic towards say,the US presidential election,but when I play basketball,I’m competitive.I don’t see why being apathetic is an argument,surely nobody who makes the grade professionally can’t be apathetic.Maybe I’m being too finicky.
Jun.15 at 8:21 am
Tweaks says:
It’s so amazing how one individual’s frustration can grow up into a debate.
Somebody wrote something above that just left me stun:” see Kobes at work, trying to screw people over for some position or credit. I see Kobes on excessively dedicated nerds, doing nothing but perfecting themselves in their area of interest. Overly ambitions people are all over, with aspirations that probably won’t come true.”
My friend, Kobe’s ambitions came true long time ago and he’s still working with newer bigger ambition. Now, how the heck can u hate on AMBITION??? It’s mind-blowing how people have such odd feelings…i mean…can’t you just admire his ballgame and THAT’S IT?. Naah, you JUUST have to go into the whole wife/rich/black/white/poor/mj piece of crap…when in reality that has nothing to do with the baller. As far as MJ,Bird,Magic etc-moments…you shouldn’t have mentioned MJ-s 63 explosion..because we have one 81 point KOBE-Moment that will go into the books. And OH YES..it was about the playoffs..or the finals for that matter. Well just wait and see till he retires and then make your stupid “moments”-album.
Jun.15 at 8:22 am
Hursty says:
For Izzo :
Apathy is a state of indifference — where an individual has an absence of interest or concern to certain aspects of emotional, social, or physical life. Absence or suppression of passion, emotion, or excitement. Lack of interest in or concern for things that others find moving or exciting.
Jun.15 at 8:23 am
H to the izzo says:
surely nobody who makes the grade CAN be apathetic* ugh
Jun.15 at 8:25 am
H to the izzo says:
I know what apathetic means.
Jun.15 at 8:27 am
H to the izzo says:
Either way,this is a very,very moot point.
Jun.15 at 8:27 am
Hursty says:
No, I mean, if you dont truly try and achieve what you are capable of then that is a state of not caring. Not apathy per say, but to the people who try and bring others down because of their own presonal agenda/experiences : grow the fu(k up you selfish people.
Jun.15 at 8:31 am
Hursty says:
*personal. People should try and achieve what they are capable of, not suffer in middle light or twilight and allow others to shine in their own individual darkness.
Jun.15 at 8:39 am
Hursty says:
@Izzo- moot point. yes it is. But it will consantly be discussed and I am not talking directly about Kobe here, its bigger than him, he is just a manifestation of what we want to achieve but cant be bothered to (imo) of the inability of us as individuals to shine and be individuals and NOT follow the shepherd. People settle for mediocrity and sh!tty jobs, sometimes the job is the only thing available to you and you take it. Then you get promoted to a better one and thats the goal etc. But there has to be a goal. A destination that you intend to reach for. Its hard for me to siphone my thoughts coherently on this so if you understand what I (think) I am trying to say you’ve done really well
Jun.15 at 8:50 am
Hursty says:
Im out. way too much philososhy/emotional/spiritual/personal stuff here on my behalf. Later.
Jun.15 at 9:20 am
DP says:
Hursty, my dude we are in business.
Jun.15 at 9:23 am
ktokyo says:
Here we go again. Khalid trying to inject race into the issue. What are you Hilary Clinton? I have to say that I’ve never even considered the race of his wife and I am a huge Kobe fan. Is that proof positive of something?
Jun.15 at 10:37 am
Sam Rubenstein says:
I don’t think the race of his wife is a big deal, but he’s older than her and I think they were dating when she was 16 or 17. Now that is a little creepy. Great basketball player though.
Jun.15 at 10:39 am
Sesa says:
I really didn’t realize that Kobe’s wifey is white.
Why did you have to bring the wifey into the table?
Jun.15 at 10:46 am
Holly MacKenzie says:
Ktokyo, I think it is ignorant to assume that just because something is not an issue for you, it isn’t an issue for others. Khalid isn’t “injecting” race into anything here. He is simply stating facts. I’m the biggest Kobe fan around and being one, I hear all of the knocks, criticism and hate surrounding him. For me personally, I hate hearing the MJ crap. Shouldn’t the kid who grows up watching the greatest player alive want to emulate him if he wants to be the best? Sure, it appears Kobe goes overboard, but maybe that is just because he is the only one who can get that close.
Jun.15 at 11:46 am
People's Princess says:
To take off on what Holly said,what if Lance Stephenson or some HS junior kid decides to model his game on Kobe and is as unapologetic about it as Kobe is wrt MJ??? Granted it’s gonna be an imperfect copy but will that kid be subjected to the same skewering that Kobe has undergone.Sh*t,leave alone a HS junior, what if Worldwide Wes told Bron or Wade “model your game on Kobe”.Will the MSM offer them a free pass????
Jun.15 at 11:49 am
Lz - Cphfinest3 says:
Hi Holly, Fellas. Kobe sure goes closer than most, then again Mike was always about delivering on the biggest stage, against adversity. Kobe, not so much this far. And NO the Shaq-titles doesn’t count, he was more Pippen than Mike those days. Kobe is as fake as they come basically that’s why people hate(me included, sorry I know it’s not nice to hate) end of story. No matter what you do or how good at it you are, if you are fake people will hate, and rightfully so IMO.
Jun.15 at 11:51 am
Lz - Cphfinest3 says:
Why would Bron or Wade model their games after Kobe? their B-Ball IQ’s are already far more advanced than his.
Jun.15 at 11:59 am
People's Princess says:
Um,no.Wade’s game is predicated on driving inside and getting FT’s.He’s got a pretty pull-up but unless he improves his range,defenders will be content to lay-off him and make him shoot 18-20 footers all day.Same deal with Bron,without the pretty pull-up.
Jun.15 at 12:02 pm
H to the izzo says:
PP:People like Lance Stephenson aren’t and will never be on Kobe’s level.I think if you want to be an all time great(like Kobe is),you must have your own identifiable,individual game which is my only problem with Kobe.I do think that the whole him copying MJ thing is overplayed and that he does have his own game.
Jun.15 at 12:05 pm
People's Princess says:
..What you been upto,man???
Izzo:My bad,ya Irish pri*k
Jun.15 at 12:08 pm
H to the izzo says:
Same old,same old.Being Irish and a prick is hard work.
And Khalids work rate during the finals has been huge,and appreciated.
Jun.15 at 12:35 pm
People's Princess says:
The point is Izzo,there is gonna be a kid with outrageous talent who’s seen Kobe’s game and been entranced by it like we have.If that kid decided to “Be Like Kobe”,what would our reaction be???
Jun.15 at 12:38 pm
H to the izzo says:
Probably something along the lines of:
“Hi,JR Smith!”
“What’s up,JR Smith?”
“Pass the f*cking ball,JR Smith!”
Jun.15 at 12:46 pm
RV says:
Hursty, i think if you don’t try you’re just complacent, as long as you’re maintaining where u are, once you start doing worse because of not trying then that’s probably not caring.
Jun.15 at 12:54 pm
Simmy Sosa says:
So many interesting points brought up by the article and commentors. I am not a Kobe hater, in fact, to borrow from a word that Hursty and others have used a lot in this post, you could say that I am apathetic towards him. I honestly think ball players share many mannerisms and that is only amplified with Kobe because he is the best right now. People say, “he talks like MJ.” Why, because he’s well spoken? “But what about the fadeaway?” You mean a shot that if performed correctly, is unguardable? Who would want to put that into their game. I do see many original traits in Kobe that separate him from MJ. People talk about his wife (stop that by the way, you don’t know her), but I think thats evidence of unique taste by Kobe. She is different from the wives of star athletes, going against the stereotypes of the athletes and the women they go for. Kobe has also taken on this “Mamba” persona on court, which I like. He has chosen to embody one of the most lethal predators in the world, which is spot on describing his game on court. I also think people forget that MJ for all of his greatness was not perfect on court. With that in mind I have no problem saying Kobe and MJ are equals on court.
Jun.15 at 12:55 pm
RV says:
and as for Kobe being mj, like i mentioned earlier, whats weird is that he’s consciously copying mj, its not just that he said “oh, MJs shot mechanics were great let me try that”, its the number change, the celebratory fist against phoenix last yr, etc. If Kobe wasn’t worried about looking good (not hating here) i’m sure he would have kept the shaved head. i dont think the MJ imitations would be such a big deal if he didn’t appear fake elsewhere, that takes the mj stuff frombeing child-like to just being weird and annoying.
Jun.15 at 12:58 pm
People's Princess says:
@Izzo:”Start playing some D J.R”
“Improve your handles and learn some moves inside the arc other than the dunk,J.R”
Jun.15 at 12:58 pm
RV says:
Sam, i think the was about to turn 18 when he met her, but he married her with no prenup only a yr and 4 months after meeting her.
Jun.15 at 1:04 pm
H to the izzo says:
What was the old saying again?
“Don’t marry the girl from the Snoop Dogg video because she’ll only end up wearing a stupid purple tutu to try and sabotage the most important day of your career”
Oh yes,that was it.
Jun.15 at 1:58 pm
John D says:
^hahahaha
Jun.15 at 2:02 pm
WhaHuh says:
RV your 12:55 comment was complete nonsense
Jun.15 at 2:54 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
Thanks Holly. When i inject race into a conversation it’s pretty obvious, this was not one of those times.
Jun.15 at 3:38 pm
RV says:
WhaHUh, until you make some valid points to show i’m talking nonsense, then all your posts ARE nonsense.
Jun.15 at 4:18 pm
Michael says:
How does Kobe talk like Jordan? I Don’t hear it. And is it his fault god made him 6′6 220. No, and the guy has never said he wanted to be Jordan, he’s always talked about Magic and Jerry, and Elgin before Jordan.
Jun.15 at 7:13 pm
Yunki says:
Kobe’s wife isn’t white. But shes not black either and that is a legitimate sociological issue among the black community
Jun.15 at 7:23 pm
Tariq says:
Hey, In case you haven’t heard already, I’m betting my credibility on the fact that the Los Angeles Lakers will win the 2008 NBA Championship. Lord-Willin’ like the Clipse. PLEASE, if they don’t win, I ask anyone who cares NOT to take me seriously ever again. Especially you, Russ. Just treat me like a crazy person or someone who’s been high and in the sun for too long. As comic relief, please read the article I’ve written to mock ray allen. It is quite well-written, if I do say so myself. And ray allen is actually reading, by the way.
Jun.15 at 8:48 pm
Hursty says:
does it even matter what race his wife is? To his basketball ability its irrelevant.
Jun.15 at 8:57 pm
a_whiteman says:
kobe bryant is NOT michael jordan….but he is kobe bryant; top 15 all time
Jun.15 at 11:28 pm
Ben Osborne says:
Saturday columns rule.
Jun.16 at 6:43 am
Hursty says:
yes they do Ben….
Jun.16 at 9:15 am
Holly MacKenzie says:
Khalid, thank you for speaking the truth always, even When it’s truth that people don’t want to hear.
Jun.16 at 10:08 am
Jukai says:
Not a good article.
Jun.16 at 10:10 am
Jukai says:
Holly, you’re way off base. Just because it is an issue for some people YOU know, does not make this an issue.
Jun.16 at 10:12 am
Jukai says:
If ANYONE hates Kobe cause he’s dating a white woman, please speak up now. I’m 100% with ktokyo on this one.
Jun.16 at 10:30 am
TADOne says:
Kobe is dating a white woman? Silly me, I thought he was married to a Mexican woman?
Jun.16 at 10:34 am
Jukai says:
Oh, well, then I can understand where the hate is coming from TADOne
Jun.16 at 11:16 am
B. Long says:
I think he is a great basketball player!
Jun.16 at 12:02 pm
B. Long says:
Oh wait, that’s not what this article is about. Nevermind.
Jun.16 at 12:56 pm
Jukai says:
haha B. Long!
Jun.16 at 2:50 pm
SLAM ONLINE | » The Likeable But Not Clutch One says:
[…] Over the weekend, Khalid took the time to ask the simple question, what’s the deal with the Kobe love/hate stuff, for real? His performance last night was, in a word, weird. To be completely honest, I do not understand what was happening with him out there, it had to be more than Tom Thibodeau’s drawings. But enough about Kobe (ha ha, yeah right). Let’s take a look at the other side of the face they split into halves for the ad campaign. […]
Jun.16 at 7:10 pm
Karma says:
I think some of the people that dislike Kobe dislike him for absolutely stupid reasons. Okay, “he talks like MJ?” How does one talk like MJ exactly? The guy is well spoken. He speaks clearly and intelligently. What do you want him to, speak like Allen Iverson or Tony Allen and sound like he has barely any knowledge of the English language? The guy is intelligent, and therefore speaks as such. As far as his voice goes, is it his fault if he resembles MJ’s voice? No. Stupid reason to hate. Secondly, yeah his game is similar to Michael Jordan, but what is wrong with that? The toungue wagging has been something that Kobe’s been doing since HIGHSCHOOL (if you watch his highschool highlights, and who knows, maybe it comes naturally to him as well. Just because Jordan did it, does not mean that any one else cannot? On another tip, Kobe is much better looking than MJ is (no homo), so I think a little bit of the hate can be attributed to his looks as well. A lot of guys are jealous of good looking dudes that seemingly have everything in thier lives (i.e - Tom Brady), and mostly it seems to be for no reason. Kobe has been flawed yes, he has some bad characteristics, but so does every athelete. To hate a man so much for absolutely no reason just boggles my mind. People aren’t even objective about him anymore, and just shout random things just for the sake of hating the man. There is an idiot commenter on The Big Lead.com that constantly undermines everything that Bryant does, claiming that even Dirk Nowitzki is a better player, and so on. That’s his opinion, fine, but if you’re going to hate someone, hate them for a legitimate reason. People hate on the guy if he changes his jersey number, if he doesn’t pass the ball enough, if he passes the ball too much, if he says something in an interview, if he yells at his teammates, if he is seen LAUGHING with his teamates (”he’s fake” obviously), if he talks properly, if he talks in ebonics, and so on. It’s stupid, it’s silly. People need to stop being so f*kin critical of such a great player, and rather embrace him, despite his flaws, because he is an athelete that we may never see the likes of again. You know what’s funny? Because of people constantly criticizing Kobe yet giving Lebron a completely free pass, I’ve grown to HATE Lebron James. I hate the man, and it has more to do with people having this double standard with Kobe more than anything. Lebron James can come into the league wearing the number 23, AND have a tatoo that says “The Chosen One” written on it, have a multi-million dollar Nike commercial made for him before he steps on to an NBA floor, and he’s not someone who feels everything is entitled to him? How did HE escape the hate?? The dude is unbelieveably boring in interviews, unbelieveably arrogant in others (Kobe doesn’t act flat out arrogant; Lebron does), has less ability on the court than Kobe does, and is respected LESS by his peers than Kobe is, yet everyone kisses his ass. I don’t get it. Kobe can never win, I’ve come to accept that.
Jun.18 at 6:50 pm
bfidel20 says:
Copying MJ? This is basketball and the game has evolved that way. Everyone mirrors somebody else. You might as well say the Kobe copies James Naismith the creator of the game of basketball. Everyone looked up to somebody growing up. KG looked up to Bill Russell and they’re games are very similar. Does it mean that KG copied his style? NO! I’m guessing Kobe copied MJ by scoring 81 points in one game too! Oh wait MJ never scored 81 in one game. So if Kobe wins 6 championships down the line, then he must be copying MJ. Come on, thats bull….! Kobe is KOBE. Doesn’t anyone get that. Yes he had his mistakes in the past….who doesn’t make mistakes. Everyone loves to hate when they aren’t on your team. I mean I remember when KG was in Minnesota, Boston BOOed his a$$. But now he’s the BIG TICKET there. Kobe has changed the game period. People just don’t want to accept greatness! You guys have to remember…he came out of HS….he didn’t get that knowledge college players get. AND he still has a better BBall IQ then 90% of the guys in the league who played college ball. Just let the players play and do what they do. I’m a Laker fan and hey Boston was the best team this year and thats why they won. Congrats to KG, Paul, and Ray on their first Ring! We’ll be back next season..
Jun.18 at 6:55 pm
bfidel20 says:
Originality…..maybe we should bring the ANDONE team into the league. If Kobe needs originality, then TMAC, WADE, stop copying MJ. Rip Hamilton, Ray Allen stop copying Reggie Miller. KG stop copying Bill Russel. Nash, Kidd, Paul, stop copying Jerry West. Man the list can forever with the number of copy cats.