Podoloff’s Box ‘08
Sponsored by Snickers…
By Myles Brown
val·u·a·ble [val-yoo-uh-buhl]–adjective
1. having considerable monetary worth; costing
or bringing a high price: a valuable painting; a valuable crop.
2. having qualities worthy of respect, admiration,
or esteem: a valuable friend.
3. of considerable use, service, or importance:
a valuable player.
4. apparently not Jerry West. (But he got the logo, so it’s all good.)
*And if you don’t know, now you know.
It didn’t come to me in a dream and alas, I have no analogies. Crazy, right? No academy awards, no presidential elections, no beauty pageants, no monster truck rallies, none of that sh*t. All I have are the facts and because of them, I’m wide awake and hopping mad. The NBA MVP has lost much of it’s significance in recent years due to questionable voting results, but this year I sincerely hoped that since the Suns had set and Dirk had been properly chastised that the public-and the press-would be more responsible in casting their vote. But apparently the insanity continues, as people pay absolutely no regard to history. Or the present, for that matter. It’s 2 AM, I’m wide awake and hopping mad. Because of Chris F*cking Paul.
It’s been a fantastic year highlighted by four compelling candidates, LeBron James, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett. Each player has dominated a portion of this season, but as the schedule draws to a close several pundits have found themselves incredulously gazing at the Hornets record alongside Paul’s production and wonder how CP3 could not be MVP. I sat between two of them during a recent Wolves game who did everything short of have me escorted from the building for even questioning it. I’m sorry, but I’m gonna have to go ahead and call bullsh*t on this one. As compelling as these four candidates have been, in my not so humble opinion only two of them are actually worthy.
[Insert dismissive cries of “Hater!” here]
LeBron James has had a spectacular year. But his team didn’t. He’s consistently approaching that elusive triple double average, but it’s only been in an effort to keep his team afloat as they’ve found themselves adrift in a shallow Eastern Conference. Honestly, I think that last years Finals was a fluke and that those raised expectations have unfairly skewed the perspective on Cleveland’s performance this year. Regardless, Bron’s chances aren’t hurt just because the Cavs wont win 50 games, it’s how they’ve regressed. And just as the previous years Finals appearance-fluke or not-would’ve bolstered his case had the team even come close to defending their Conference position, (the same happened for Dirk in the previous year…) it will cost him as they falter down the stretch.
He delivered with big stats (30.2, 7.9 & 7.3) that didn’t translate into wins. His increased scoring and assists didn’t result in any significant increases for the team, in fact Cleveland is scoring almost exactly the same amount of points per game as they did last year (96.9). More importantly, their much vaunted defense is allowing almost five more points per game (92.9 to 97.2, which actually gives them a negative point differential on the year) and they’ve slipped significantly in offensive and defensive rankings. (from 105.5-8th & 101.3-4th to 106.2-19th & 106.6-11th) Who did they lose that would explain this? Anderson Varejao? Things turning on the loss of such a seemingly inconsequential player would run contrary to the faction who insist that Bron carries a gang of ne’er do wells. But it’s either that or that this team was simply not ready to defend their crown, even after a midseason trade that was supposed to make them stronger. Which is somewhat reflective of the King’s leadership, no? If not, it certainly doesn’t show how he “makes his teammates better”. Regardless, fair or not, he who takes the credit must also shoulder the blame. Maybe that’s what “Chosen One” means.
Oh, and call me picky if you’d like but I still can’t help but notice that if Bron suits up for the remaining five games (which may not be likely considering his back spasms) he still will have played in two less games this year due to the six games he sat out with that mysterious sprain. On his non-shooting hand. Whether he should’ve played or not, those games may cost the team home court advantage as they hover only 1.5 games above the reinvigorated Wizards. Actually, they’re only two games in front of the streaking 76ers who sit in sixth place and these things matter since Cleveland has lost six of their last ten and ten of their last twenty games heading into the postseason. If their unimpressive record was eclipsed by strong play as the playoffs began, Bron would have more of a case. They haven’t and he doesn’t.
Which brings us back to Chris Paul and the surprising Hornets who still sit atop the Western Conference. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t impressed. He deserves a hearty thanks, a pat on the back, a hug, a Kit Kat, a Vogue cover, anything but an MVP trophy. Why? First of all, like LeBron, Paul is upheld by his advocates as a player who ‘carries’ a sub par roster. My problem is that many of those same advocates also want to point at New Orleans record and call them the ‘best’ team in the West. It can’t be both. If it’s a sub par roster, then they’re not the best team and if they are the best team, then the roster isn’t sub par. But let’s take a closer look.
Paul is averaging four more points per game (17.3 to 21.5) on three more shots (13.6 to 16.5) and is shooting the ball considerably better (43.7% to 49.1% and 35.0% to 37.2% from three) while adding almost three more assists per game to his totals (8.9 to 11.5). The team has also made noteworthy improvements, shooting better from the field (44.5% to 46.6%), from three (36.2% to 39.3%-on 250+ more attempts. And counting…) and from the line (74% to 77%) in addition to an assist total that has already been surpassed (+125) with two games left on the schedule. These stats, along with New Orleans 16 game improvement in the win column have prompted many to declare Paul as the catalyst for change instead of acknowledging the return of David West (52 games in ‘07) and Peja Stojakovic (13 games in ‘07).
West (20.3 & 8.9) is a physical PF in the paint who can also run the floor, board, defend and step outside the paint to make the open jumper. Stojakovic (45.0% on 6.7 3PA) is one of the games greatest shooters of all time and a three time All Star. Granted, they are not two of the first names anyone would call out in a fantasy draft, but they are the perfect compliments for a point guard. No one would argue CP3’s ability to utilize his teammates, but too many are declaring that Paul has ‘carried’ or ‘made’ these players instead of acknowledging how they’ve made the game easier for him. I had the chance to speak with Coach Byron Scott about this on Wednesday.
SLAM: You played with an iconic PG in Magic and coached another one in Kidd, how is Paul different?
Scott: Well I think he has a little bit of those guys in him. Magic was obviously very unique at 6′9″, the way he could run a team, his passion for the game, his leadership. Chris has a lot of those qualities, as far as his leadership and Magic could take over a game at any time. I think Chris has that ability. Jason Kidd, the way he could push the ball and find guys in the open court so and the passes he could make to certain people that you just didn’t think would be made, Chris has that ability. So he has a little bit of both of those guys in him, but I still think that he’s more like Isiah than anyone I’ve seen in a long time.
SLAM: It’s obvious that Chris makes the people around him better, but going back to the injuries that you mentioned before, how has the return of Peja and David West for a full season made him better?
Scott: Well David ended up missing thirty games last year, obviously that hurt us big time, but Peja missing almost a whole entire season was a killer. So having him back and healthy, and playing the way he’s capable of playing, which was a slow process cause he still had to get back to being comfortable out there on the basketball court and probably took about a month to a month and a half. But having him now has been fantastic. You don’t sometimes realize how much you’ll miss a guy until he’s gone and not having him last year was a big blow to our team.
SLAM: Do you think that can be directly attributed to Chris’ rise in FG% and assists? He’s certainly worked on his game, but that has to spread the floor and make things easier for him.
Scott: It does and when you have a guy out there who can make threes on a consistent basis like Peja, your assists are gonna go up. We do a good job of letting spreading the floor and letting Chris try to attack people and when they (the defense) sag in, he finds the open guy. All they’ve gotta do is make shots and if they do that, it’s gonna be a pretty good night.
Then I had an opportunity to catch up with the candidate himself.
SLAM: There’s no real set criteria for the award, what do you think it means to be an MVP?
Paul: It’s exactly what it says, most valuable player on a team and which team couldn’t do without that player. You know, not necessarily the best player in the league but if-I’ll pop you in your mouth if you keep talkin’ (That was for Bonzi, not me. These guys are hilarious. I’d tell you more, but this is already long enough.)
SLAM: There’s a lot of talk about an MVP making his teammates better. What do you think it means to make your teammates better and how do you do that on this team?
Paul: I don’t think it’s always necessarily about scoring, it’s about your teammates having that confidence in you and when you go out there on the court you give your teammates more confidence.
SLAM: Byron Scott has mentioned that the teams backgrounds and the way you guys were raised by your respective families has made you easier to coach and by effect made this a better team. How do you think your background has affected you as a ballplayer?
Paul: I think it has a lot. It’s made me a lot more thankful for my teammates and the relationship that we have and we realize that we’re not just teammates, we’re a family and we go out there and play for each other every night.
SLAM: You’ve also been very open with your faith. How does that affect your approach to the game?
Paul: It helps me to respect the game and also understand that I’ve been truly blessed. I definitely understand that this can be taken away from me in the blink of an eye. God has blessed me with the opportunity to play the game that I love, take care of my family….words can’t even describe it. I’m riding so high right now I don’t even wanna come down.
SLAM: So God makes point guards?
Paul: Oh yeah, God makes everything. God makes all of this possible.
SLAM: What do think you still need to improve on?
Paul: Everything. Defense, shooting, I want to cut down my turnovers if possible.
SLAM: There’s been a lot of people rallying around Byron for Coach of the Year and yourself for MVP, but there isn’t as much talk about the team going into the playoffs. Do you think that you guys can be a top seed and still be an underdog?
Paul: I think so, but all that matters right now is what everyone in our locker room thinks. We haven’t been in the playoffs the past two seasons, I’m the only person in our starting five who hasn’t played in a playoff game, but if that’s the way we’ve gotta approach it, I’m comfortable with that.
SLAM: The Saints rallied around the city back when they made it to the NFC Championship and now you guys are enjoying a similar run. What does it mean to you to be able to do that for New Orleans?
Paul: It means a lot. It’s our first full season back in New Orleans and we’ve had opportunities to get back out in the community and show the fans how much we appreciate them and that’s had a lot to do with our success.
SLAM: What’s the most important thing you think you’ve done for the community?
Paul: Just giving the city a little more hope. We go out there every night, on the road or at home with New Orleans on our chest.
SLAM: People readily acknowledge how you make your teammates better, but how has the return of David West and Peja Stojakovic made the game easier for you?
Paul: Well D.West is an All Star. I think we compliment each other really well and he’s easily one of the best power forwards in the league. And Peja, he’s been one of the best shooters to ever play in the NBA and I think that the style of play we have right now compliments him. He really makes the game easier for me. Both of those guys.
SLAM: If you could cast a vote for MVP and couldn’t vote for yourself, who would you vote for?
Paul: David West.
The New Orleans Hornets have had an exceptional year and Chris Paul is undoubtedly the primary reason for that. But it’s only been one year and contrary to popular belief, the MVP is not a one year award. A closer look at the awards recipients will reveal as much. The voting process and varying criteria suggested for the award are far from perfect, but one aspect has pretty much held firm over the past 52 years: there’s a line. A player first has to establish himself as a worthy candidate and then disprove his detractors before receiving an MVP.
While there have been controversial winners recently, much more often than not, the victor has proven himself beyond a shadow of doubt because he has been denied in past votes and returned the following season to answer all questions concerning his candidacy. It’s a process established by the greatest players in NBA history. 14 times (Garnett ‘03, Duncan ‘01, K.Malone ‘98, Jordan ‘97, D.Robinson ‘94, Olajuwon ‘93, Jordan ‘87, Bird ‘83, Erving ‘80, Walton ‘77, McAdoo ‘74, Abdul-Jabbar ‘73, Reed ‘69, Russell ‘60) a player has finished second in the voting before moving on to capture the award the next year. 8 other times (Nowitzki ‘06, Jordan ‘90, M.Johnson ‘88, M.Johnson ‘86, Abdul-Jabbar ‘70, Russell ‘64, O.Robertson ‘63, Cousy ‘56) third place went on to receive their just due. And 5 times (Petit 4th in ‘58, Chamberlain 5th in ‘65, Abdul-Jabbar 5th in ‘75, Abdul-Jabbar 4th in ‘79, M.Malone 4th in ‘81) a player has been in the top 5 the year before winning the MVP. That’s 27 out of 52 times a top 5 player has had to bolster his case, be it through personal or team improvement before getting the nod. Every other time was a repeat or the winner has been 6th or lower on the previous ballot.
Except for five players. Five times in NBA history a player has won MVP without appearing on the previous years ballot. Wilt Chamberlain (23 years old averaging 37.6, 27.0 & 2.3) was 1960’s Rookie of the Year and the MVP, a feat duplicated by Wes Unseld (22 years old averaging 13.8, 18.2 & 2.6) in 1969. Dave Cowens (24 years old averaging 20.5, 16.2 & 4.1) won in 1973 (but there were only 5 people who even received votes the previous year) and Moses Malone (23 years old averaging 24.8, 17.6 & 1.8) came out of nowhere in 1979. Those are four stalwart post presences and proven championship cornerstones. The fifth player joined the list 26 years later and we all know who he is.
Steve F*cking Nash (30 years old averaging 15.5, 3.3 & 11.5).
This is the guy the CP34MVP camp are pointing to for precedent. One of-if not the-most unprecedented and contested MVPs in NBA history. After back to back MVPs, the first for turning the Suns around and the second for sustaining them through injuries, the voters finally placed the onus on Nash to make a Finals appearance before blessing him with a third. He still hasn’t been there and it still fuels the ire of his critics. And this is the guy who’s supposed to justify Chris Paul becoming sixth player ever to not appear on the previous years ballot? The youngest MVP ever? (Tied with Unseld at 22.) The third to win MVP with no post season experience? (Joining Wilt and Unseld) In one of the tightest races in recent memory?
Get the f*ck outta here.
Thing is, many were ready to deny Nash not because of his skin color, or his defense, but because of his position. Point guards, at least ones not named Johnson, simply didn’t win MVP. The last point to win the award before Magic was Bob Cousy back in 1957. Point guards historically haven’t won the award because they’re just not as versatile as the other positions on the floor. They don’t rebound as well. They can’t punish anyone in the post and before hand checking was outlawed they weren’t much of a threat in the paint. They can’t rise over a player from the perimeter as easily as others. They aren’t going to fly in from the weak side and block a shot or deny anyone at the rim. And quick as they are, the defensive pressure isn’t the same as that of a larger player. Point guards are the playmakers, the brains of an offense. They deserve more recognition, but they shouldn’t be winning MVP every other year because they simply can’t do as much.
No one does it alone and everyone benefits from the presence of better players, but while no one is more capable of “making teammates better”, no one is as dependent on their teammates as the point guard. But I’m supposed to ignore all of that because “nobody picked the Hornets to be on top of the Western Conference at the beginning of the season, they were 39-43 last year!” Well who picked the Lakers?! They only won three more games!
In fact, discussing personal and team progression-or regression-in itself (something practically everyone does…) continues to support the notion that this isn’t simply a ‘one year award’. This sh*t does not operate in a vacuum. If it did no one would hate Kobe Bryant. No one would still be shouting ‘Colorado!’ at him, no one would call him a ball hog, or say that his numbers have dipped.
For the past two years he’s heard how his lust for scoring has come at the cost of his teammates development, when in fact his teammates just weren’t ready and that was the reason Phil challenged Kobe to be the strike player in the offense rather than the facilitator. But now the revisionists are saying that Kobe is passing more because he’s trusting teammates who’ve always been capable, when in fact he’s trusting teammates who’ve finally become capable. These were primarily young (average age, 24) and inexperienced players learning an offense that even Hall of Fame players don’t grasp immediately. Word to Gary Payton. Sasha Vujacic? Jordan Farmar? Vladmir Radmonvic? Rony Turiaf? You’re telling me they were ready two years ago? Last year? I don’t believe that, you don’t believe it yourself.
This team was in absolute turmoil from the moment Kobe took to the podium after being burned by the Suns in the playoffs for the second consecutive year. Weeks later, his parking lot press conference only confirmed that he was thinking the same things that everyone else was. And what was it he said during that much discussed diatribe that was so abhorrent? “Ship his ass out of here”? Really? That’s it? “We’re talking about Jason Kidd”? We were! And more people than are now willing to admit agreed with him. In fact, a faction of management led by Jim Buss, questioned whether Phil Jackson needed to go. Not Kobe Bryant. The only thing most of them could agree on was that this team was not ready. And fans across the nation echoed that sentiment.
Months later Andrew Bynum was well on his way to MIP status before suffering a season ending injury and it’s difficult to believe that the 20 year old’s strong play wasn’t fueled by a determination to dismiss all naysayers who sided with Kobe. The same can be said of his other teammates who’ve raised their game collectively. (Minus Walton, everyones stats increased in a number of categories, particularly Farmar and Vujacic who’ve doubled their scoring.)
Team scoring and defense improved (from 103.3 & 103.4 to 108.4 & 101.5) which was particularly impressive considering that the team Pace Factor went up (from 93.5-8th to 95.6-6th). Their offensive rating which was already respectable (108.6-7th last year) moved even higher (112.8-3rd), due to less turnovers this year (1273 to 1128) and improved shooting percentages (46.6% to 47.6%) in spite of picking up the pace. But where this team showed true growth was on the defensive end, with an astronomical leap in their defensive rating (from 108.6-24th to 105.7-6th) that could take them from first round flameouts to certifiable contenders.
So as stupid as it probably was, the fact remains that Kobe publicly challenged his teammates and they responded. His will to win went from practically tearing the franchise apart to taking it further than anyone expected. In hindsight, he probably wasn’t MVP in either of the past two years, but the experience his teammates gained from those playoff appearances will be invaluable to them as they head into the post season this year. This is now a young and experienced team ready for the rigors of spring basketball because they’ve felt the pressure of a Game 7 and conquered what could be the toughest race in Conference history. Thanks in no small part to Kobe Bryant.
But there’s more than a few folks who want to explain all that away by saying Pau Gasol (18.9, 7.7 & 3.6). Really? That’s it? He’s only played in 26 games since arriving in mid-January and the team was 30-16 before he got there. Much is made of the run the team made after acquiring Gasol, but that stretch-in addition to the preceding and following ones-deserves a closer look.
In Gasol’s first 18 games as a Laker the team went 15-3, which is nothing to be ignored. But upon closer inspection, one would find that of those 18 games only 8 were against playoff teams and only 6 of those “playoff teams” were playing above .500 basketball (They played the ATL twice. 1,2,3…mediocrity!). In the ten games prior to Pau, the Lakers were also without Andrew Bynum and they went 5-5. For ten games following that 15-3 run, they were without Bynum and Pau and went 5-5 again. But during that twenty game stretch, fifteen of their opponents were playoff teams (dependent on the Denver/Golden State outcome this number would go down one or two games) and all fifteen of those teams were playing +.500 ball. That stretch should have killed their playoff positioning, especially in the ‘win or die’ West.
But Kobe Bryant wouldn’t let that happen. In the first ten games he raised his numbers across the board (33.6 ppg on 52.4% & 38.2% 3P, 7.9 rpg & 5.6 apg) and in the second ten games he raised everything except his shooting percentage (31.1 ppg on 42.1% & 35% 3P, 7.3 rpg & 5.6 apg), but that was probably because of the torn ligament in his shooting hand. Oh, and did I mention that he didn’t miss a game? Or that it’s still torn? Maybe things would’ve been worse if he sprained it, but that’s neither here nor there.
So Kobe subjugates his game for the good of the team (-2 FGA this season), seamlessly incorporates new players into a complex offense, won’t take a game off with a serious injury and steps his game up when everyone needs him. This all results in the marked team improvement (+14) that critics demanded he show in past MVP votes. How could he not be MVP? Could he have been any better? What else could he have done?
Maybe he should have been Kevin Garnett.
But I’ll get to him tomorrow. Or the next day. I still haven’t decided who should win. Not that it matters.
150 Responses to “Podoloff’s Box ‘08”
Apr.14 at 10:51 am
BETCATS says:
Kobe kobe kobe kobe kobe kobe kobe kobe kobe kobe kobe kobe koooooooooooooooooooooooobe ebok ebok eeeeeeeboooooooooooook
Apr.14 at 11:07 am
Ryan Jones says:
This is long.
Apr.14 at 11:07 am
Myles Brown says:
I warned you.
Apr.14 at 11:12 am
Bryan says:
Well said.
Apr.14 at 11:13 am
Bryan says:
All the things I’ve been trying to say , you just said them better than I could. I said all about how his numbers are just as ridiculous as Lebron’s how Chris Paul’s supporting cast has been stronger for a longer stretch of the season etc. Kudos.
Apr.14 at 11:15 am
Russ Bengtson says:
Good stuff as usual, Myles. You sold me on Kobe over CP3—now make me believe he deserves it more than KG.
Apr.14 at 11:24 am
Sam Rubenstein says:
I got to print this one out and take it to “my office.” I assume this is great work Myles!
Apr.14 at 11:27 am
TADOne says:
By the time I finished reading this, you could have convinced me of anything. Regardless, great stuff. Can’t wait to hear the KG argument.
Apr.14 at 11:29 am
arthur says:
It’s got to be an incredible year when Lebron has almost no chance of winning while putting up 30.2, 7.9 & 7.3
Apr.14 at 11:32 am
namik says:
Everyone talks about KG ‘changing the culture in Boston”. Just a couple of questions-How is that term defined? How can anyone justify placing all the credit on one guy? Advocates for KG also say P-Dub was here last year and they sucked. Literally maybe. But speaking from a team standpoint, Paul definetly wasn’t “here”. KG neither. And both of their. You add two All-Stars to any team, and the culture can’t help but change. Look at it this way, if you put PP and Ray Allen on the TimberWolves and the same thing happens, is PP responsible for this “change in culture”? Peirce is just as important to this team as KG. Can’t say the same about anyone on the Lakers, Cavs or Hornets.
Apr.14 at 11:33 am
namik says:
Good job Myles. Oh and I lost a couple of words. “Both of their teams sucked” was what I wasa trying to say.
Apr.14 at 11:35 am
myke says:
finally, someone who sees the REAL mvp, good read
Apr.14 at 11:36 am
H to the izzo says:
I’m assuming length equals quality here,I will confirm this in around 8 minutes.
Apr.14 at 11:38 am
FLUXLAND says:
Is this your rebuttal to the Farmers argument? Nowhere nears as entertaining or convincing! And way to go Henry Darger. Do they pay you by the word?
Apr.14 at 11:42 am
Tariq says:
I think Kobe should be MVP, but I disagree with you on a number of points: 1- You try to make the argument that the MVP is not a one-year argument. That players should, for the most part, pay their dues, as it were, before winning MVP. You say that that’s what has happened in the past. Regardless of what has happened, that is simply faulty criteria. I’m baffled by the absurdity of the notion of holding CP3’s lack of previous postseason experience against him. 2- Your use of Nash is also irrelevant. A lot of people have argued that CP3 should be MVP because he’s having a superior season to both of Nash’s MVP seasons. You flip it on them like Rabbit in 8 Mile and say that since Nash was a controversial pick, we SHOULDN’T pick Paul. Both lines of reasoning are flawed. In reality, Nash’s MVP season should have nothing to do with this current campaign. Also, I don’t think you should be “hopping mad” because of “Chris f*cking Paul”. If anything, you should be hopping mad at the dipsh*ts who want to vote for ANYONE but Kobe, just because they don’t like him. But going to the other extreme does not make a proper counter-argument. The fact of the matter is, regardless of Wilt or Wes or Dolph Schayes or whoever you would care to name, Chris Paul is a deserving f*cking MVP. Kobe just deserves it more. He has been the most consistently excellent performer on a legit title contender (and likely number 1 seed in THE conference of out lifetimes). That’s it.
Apr.14 at 11:43 am
peteb80 says:
That’s what she said, Izzo.
Apr.14 at 11:43 am
H to the izzo says:
This is confirmed.This was really good.Although I didn’t need convincing about Kobe over Paul.I had and still have Paul in 3rd place,with KG 1st.
Apr.14 at 11:43 am
Tariq says:
*…that the MVP is not a one-year award…
Apr.14 at 11:45 am
Captain America says:
Why is it that people who have nuthin’ to say take longer to say it?
Apr.14 at 11:45 am
Tariq says:
…of OUR lifetimes…damn typos..
Apr.14 at 11:47 am
Tariq says:
And why do I get the impression that a lot of the MVP pieces I’ve been reading lately are based more on emotion than objectivity? This piece is filled with the emotion of a frustrated Laker fan.
Apr.14 at 11:49 am
Myles Brown says:
1.Its not my argument, it’s 52 years worth of evidence. TWO guys have won MVP with no postseason experience. Two. That’s saying something.
2.Controversial or not,Nash’s MVP win has a lot to do with Paul’s candidacy because without Nash, no one would even be considering a PG for MVP.
3.My “hopping f*cking mad line was merely for effect. As you can see, I’ve met Paul, he’s a remarkably grounded and nice guy and a great basketball player. I have nothing against him at all.
4.If I were writing off of pure emotion and no objectivity, then it would’ve have been a lot shorter and I’d have just picked Kobe. And as a Laker fan, what exactly do I have to be frustrated about?
Apr.14 at 11:51 am
Myles Brown says:
Not to mention I still havent actually picked Kobe.
Apr.14 at 11:51 am
TADOne says:
Myles: Bynum?
Apr.14 at 11:52 am
Myles Brown says:
That’s about it. Bynum for MVP!
Apr.14 at 11:54 am
H to the izzo says:
And this paled in comparison to Podoloff Part 1,that took about 4 years to read/watch.
Apr.14 at 12:05 pm
Tariq says:
Myles: 1- I would hardly call the stats you presented “evidence”. I’ve been reading espn and their over-reliance on stats (PER, anyone?) to know that just because only 4 previous MVPs have had postseason experience, that does not constitute in and of itself evidence that supports the “don’t make Paul the fifth member of that class” argument. 2- Like I said, people have been using Nash’s awards to support the argument for Paul as MVP. You flip it and use it against him. Both arguments are flawed. I’ll bet you a dollar Paul would be in the discussion regardless. The fact that Nash won just provides more ammo for those on the Paul bandwagon to misuse. the fact that they misuse it does not justify your (different) misuse of the point. 3- I know you have nothing against Chris Paul the person. But you are obviously irked at the fact that he’s getting such serious consideration. 4- As a non-Laker fan, I myself get frustrated when people hate on Kobe. Like a lot of people who were typing LBJ4MVP a month ago have now jumped on the CP34MVP bandwagon. And they base their opinions not on basketball opinion, but on the fact that Kobe bugs them. That’s fine when their adolescents typing on a website under assumed names. But when their f*cking vote-holding sportwriters, it IS frustrating for me. I imagine it’s more frustrating for you, and the tone of this piece illustrates just that.
Apr.14 at 12:05 pm
DP and Free Chilly says:
Kobe. who else? who better. fnf up.
Apr.14 at 12:07 pm
Tariq says:
DP: Yes, I agree. Kobe should be MVP.
Apr.14 at 12:08 pm
Sam Rubenstein says:
okay, read it. I like it! Fact-based.
Now, regarding the MVP award, IF anyone other than Kobe wins, then we could easily see a change in Kobe’s game during the playoffs cause there’s that tradition of the guy who should have been gaining motivation (Hakeem vs. Robinson, Jordan vs. Malone or Barkley, etc.). Kobe might take it on himself to prove he is the MVP, which could cause him to go back to more individual play and hurt the Lakers more than help them. If Chris Paul or KG win it, they just keep doing what they do and it shouldn’t really have much of an impact. I just hope all the candidates are still playing when they announce it this year.
Apr.14 at 12:08 pm
iLL wiLL says:
CP3 MVP. Has a nice ring to it.
Apr.14 at 12:09 pm
H to the izzo says:
DP:To answer your question:Kevin Garnett.
Apr.14 at 12:11 pm
Allenp says:
I think you short-changed Paul a little on his impact and overall play. But, I understand that you were trying to make an argument for Kobe, so that’s to be expected. Kobe has been more than impressive, and he will deserve the MVP if he wins it. I also think that Paul putting up 21 and 11.5 with 3 steals also deserves that MVP. If either of them wins it, I’ll think it was fair. And, I like KG and think he’s the biggest reason for Boston’s turnaround, but I think his numbers aren’t good enough, and his real benefit has been allowing Pierce to really open up his game.
Apr.14 at 12:12 pm
Tariq says:
“…I also think that Paul putting up 21 and 11.5 with 3 steals also deserves that MVP. If either of them wins it, I’ll think it was fair…” That’s all I was trying to say.
Apr.14 at 12:14 pm
TADOne says:
Co-MVP’s. Argument settled. Or argument could be flamed more. Let’s just give it to Duncan.
Apr.14 at 12:17 pm
Myles Brown says:
1. The stats I presented reflected that Paul improved because his teammates came back healthy for a full season. So my argument was that they made him just as good as he made them. In addition to that point, I made various assertions on why the point guard is a valuable position, but not as valuable as other players on the floor. These assertions are what Im assuming were on the minds of voters who continually ignored point guards over the years.
2.Im not trying to use Nash against Paul, Im just saying that Nash has paved the way for Paul and hindsight has left us with a lot of questions about Nash, so we shouldnt be in such a rush to crown Paul. That’s it. Theyre both great, but limited, players. And why dont you do me the favor of going back through the past 52 years of voting and tell me how many PGs finished in the top 3. When youre done Ill send you my address and you can mail me my dollar. Paul is not a serious participant in this convo without Nash.
3.I was quite clear with why Im irked about Pauls bandwagon. He would be the most completely unprecedented MVP in the history of the award. A 22 year old point guard with no postseason experience. Its NEVER happened. And for it to happen over a three time champion who turned his team around just as much and a former MVP who fueled the greatest turnaround in lig history would be ridiculous to me.
4.It frustrates me, of course, but not to the point where I myself would just become a senseless subjective fanboy who just wants Kobe to win. Like I said, I still dont know if he should. But if I do pick him, I wanted it to be clear that it was because he truly deserved it.
3.
Apr.14 at 12:20 pm
Myles Brown says:
And I really didnt want to come off as disrespectful to Paul at all. Just wanted to counter the “Paul made West, Chandler, etc.” argument. Because of his defense and scoring, he should be a candidate, but considering the other two candidates, he shouldnt be the winner. In my opinion of course.
Apr.14 at 12:23 pm
DP and Free Chilly says:
Izzo, care to explain about KG? He is good but I just want to know why.
Apr.14 at 12:23 pm
Myles Brown says:
One more. Sad, but possibly true Sam.
Apr.14 at 12:26 pm
The Biz says:
After reading that i’m still hoping CP3 get’s MVP
Apr.14 at 12:33 pm
H to the izzo says:
Lead a the team with the Lig’s best record to the best turnaround in Lig history.Replace KG with anyone you want and that team wouldn’t be the same.KG has an MVP pedigree and some playoff experience.There are only two in this MVP race in my eyes and Paul should only be on the periphery of dicussions.But it looks likely that the media ass-slapping will give it to Paul.The MVP’s credibility will only be further tarnished then,IMO that is.
Apr.14 at 12:33 pm
kwangg says:
Update it, lakers are first seed of the west
Apr.14 at 12:35 pm
Logan Light says:
Holy crap. I sat down thinking I could read a quick article about why CP3 is not the MVP… I had to come back to this story 3 times! With that said, it is an incredible piece. The numbers make good sense. It’s been a while since I’ve seen someone break down their opinion with such substantial statistics. Kudos. BUT, as Tariq said, there is an overflowing of emotion in this piece. It drips with frustration - not that Kobe isn’t being determined as the MVP straight out, but that Chris Paul is even in the running. Oh, and how Steve Nash is to blame for it! I enjoyed it though… But let’s hear about KG.
Apr.14 at 12:36 pm
Tariq says:
Myles: 1- You gave some very illuminating stats. And I completely agree with what you said about Paul’s teammates. I’m with you on that point. The stat I’m contesting is the one you present concerning previous postseason experience. That is what I don’t consider “evidence” of anything. Because so what…so only 4 players have won MVPs without postseason experience…and? A similar statistic would be this: Isiah Thomas is one of (how many?) players to win multiple titles without another hall of famer. So what? What does prove? If someone tried to use that stat to prove that Isiah were say, a better player than Larry Bird, would we accept his “evidence”? But your point about West and Peja missing games is a good point that a lot of people forget (or pretend to forget). 2- Ok. So I guess Nash could not have won without Magic, then? Or Kidd shouldn’t have won in 2001 because he was a PG? And in order for me to send you the dollar, we’d have to transport ourselves into a parallel universe and see whether or not Chris Paul would be considered a legit candidate in an NBA with no Nash as former MVP. My guess is “yes, he would be a legit candidate regardless.” My dollar bet is not based on whether or not Mark Price was ever in the top 3 MVP vote-getters. 3- See, then you disagree with a lot of people who view it exclusively as a one-year award, including Lang, Kenny Smith and Barkley. I fail to see what being a “three-time champion” or “former MVP” have to do with anything. I again return to Isiah Thomas…how often has a player won multiple titles with no other Hall of Famers? Why don’t you go look that up and email me when your done? 4- I can’t delve into your mind and see if you’re being subjective or not. I can only tell you what I perceive. And from my vantage point that’s what it looks like. I could be wrong, and if I am, or if I’ve upset you, I apologize. Even though you’re all supposed to be objective, nobody is immune to falling into emotion or subjectivity. It wouldn’t make you a sensless fanboy( if in actuality it did take place), it would just mean that you’re human. Unlike Jake Appleman.
Apr.14 at 12:40 pm
DP and Free Chilly says:
Good point Izzo. But can you not take any of the top three candidates off their respective teams and believe the team is going to be the same? It is a tight one but I believe Kobe has changed his act around and he has become something called a teammate. KG has always been a loyal teammate and to see Kobe do this is really a big step for him. He is making all of his teammates better and they are all playing on career levels. Putting aside your own ego to make your team rise to the top makes you an MVP in my eyes. but much love to KG and Paul. FNF UP.
Apr.14 at 12:47 pm
Myles Brown says:
1. Its actually only two players. And two players out of 52 constitutes a pattern. Thats all Im trying to say. Im respectfully not going to delve into the Isiah/Bird convo because it has nothing to do with being an MVP.
2. I addressed Magic while talking about Nash. Magic was the anomaly because he was 6′9 and a triple double machine, precisely the thing that separated him from other PGs. And he did so while leading the league in steals. I was a Kidd supporter in 01 and it was my belief that he lost to Duncan because he was a PG. My prediction about Nash was based on the evidence I had in front of me. Im not going to discount it. And Id go even further and say that they definitely wouldnt be under consideration if there were still hand checking.
3.Lang, Kenny & Barkley are entitled to their opinions and so am I. I think that being a three time champion or a former MVP makes you more ‘valuable’ because youre more ‘experienced’, which makes you more prepared to lead your team into the postseason. Something that an MVP is expected to do. Especially when theyre put up against a player with practically NO experience. Again, I respectfully dont care to talk about Isiah Thomas. He has nothing to do with this conversation.
4.Im not upset. I just dont see where my Laker fandom had much to do with the points I made. But the only true test of my objectivity would be to trade Chris Paul to the Lakers. Ill give you Sasha Vujacic.
Apr.14 at 12:57 pm
Allen says:
no apostrophe in “its significance”
Apr.14 at 1:01 pm
Tariq says:
1- Two. Fine. Whatever. “Im respectfully not going to delve into the Isiah/Bird convo because it HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING AN MVP.” Exactly. Neither does previous postseason experience. Or age. 2 & 3- Yes, you are entitled to your opinion. As I am to mine. You and by the way, the PGs who have won MVP other than Magic and Nash are Oscar Robertson and Bob Cousy. How many shooting guards have won besides Jordan. And do you want to consider Iverson an SG or a PG? I consider him an SG, so I’ll give you AI. Who else? 4- Throw in Vanessa and you’ve got a deal.
Apr.14 at 1:14 pm
Myles Brown says:
1. Fine postseason experience means nothing to you. Im not gonna try and change your mind. Point is, based on the evidence, it does matter to the voters. And to me.
2.I mentioned that I was entitled to my opinion because you said “See, then you disagree with a lot of people who view it exclusively as a one-year award, including Lang, Kenny Smith and Barkley.” I didnt see what that had to do with anything, but whatever. I considered Oscar but he could also be classified as a forward so I left it alone. And I mentioned Cousy while talking about Magic and Nash. And I addressed shooting guards in Part I, which I linked to. Guards period didnt win til Doctor J (another player who could be filed under forward), and they didnt win again til Magic. The first time two guards placed first and second on the same ballot was 1987. Shooting guards-actually just Jordan-won because the position had become that much more dynamic and proved that a dominant enough guard could be a championship cornerstone, whereas before the nod always went to the big man. That has yet to be proven with a point guard under 6′9. Regardless of position, Iverson came close and he deserves credit for that.
4. No.
Apr.14 at 1:14 pm
Tariq says:
P.S. Iverson is THE anomaly.
Apr.14 at 1:21 pm
Tariq says:
I’ll move back top Charlotte if you give me Vanessa. Anyway, bottom is this: 1- I think Kobe should be MVP.
2- I disagree with you if you think it’s ridiculous that Paul shoould be in the discussion. I feel he is also a deserving candidate.
3- I agree with several points you made in your (entertaining and interesting) piece. Including everything you said about Peja and David West, as well as about Kobe’s teammates.
4- I disagree with you in that I think past seasons should not affect the MVP selection.
5- I lust after Mrs. Kobe with all my being. It’s been pleasant sparring with you, sir. No harm, no foul. I hope to do this again very soon. Please accept my sincere apologies if I’ve stepped out of line at all during our discussion. Trust that any such occurence was not my intention at all.
Apr.14 at 1:22 pm
Tariq says:
* bottom line…
Apr.14 at 1:22 pm
Tariq says:
Evidently, I can’t type for sh*t.
Apr.14 at 1:24 pm
Eboy says:
I liked Tariq better when he was “retired”. Great work per usual, Myles.
Apr.14 at 1:29 pm
Myles Brown says:
1.I dont know what I think. This whole thing was just me thinking out loud. But right now Im leaning that way.
2.I dont think its ridiculous for him to be in the discussion, he is my 3rd place vote after all, but I do think that under the circumstances it would be ridiculous if he won.
3.Thank you.
4.I agree to disagree.
5.Shes cool, but pretty low on my list of women I want and will never have.
6.No apologies needed. Its cool.
Apr.14 at 1:31 pm
namik says:
Tariq I think most of us can agree that the MVP shouldnt be about past seasons. Unfortunately it is. What irks most Laker fans is that when people talked about why Kobe didn’t deserve MVP, it was all mostly about past seasons. He ran his teammates off, was an assh*le, didn’t take his glasses off during his rookie announcement etc. But this year, when he has done what everyone wanted him to do, all the same people are saying “But wait! Last season/s don’t matter. It’s all about this season”. —LeBron should be MVP this year because he is putting up crazy numbers. Well Kobe did it in 2006 and he didnt win. But we’re not talking about last year, it’s all about this year.—And the same person said it was all about the team in 2006. All I ask is that people be consistent. If it wasn’t about past seasons then it shouldn’t be now. And if it was, then it should be now. And since it has been about past seasons, then it should be.
Apr.14 at 1:31 pm
TADOne says:
I was waiting for ya’ll to call each other “idiots” and go about your business. Highly disappointing.
Apr.14 at 1:36 pm
Slim says:
Ladies and gentlemen of the supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider: (pulling down a diagram of Chewie) this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk, but Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now, think about that. That does not make sense! Why would a Wookiee — an eight foot tall Wookiee — want to live on Endor with a bunch of two foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more importantly, you have to ask yourself: what does that have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me, I’m a lawyer defending a major record company, and I’m talkin’ about Chewbacca. Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense. None of this makes sense. And so you have to remember, when you’re in that jury room deliberating and conjugating the Emancipation Proclamation… does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense. If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must vote for Chris Paul! The defense rests.
Apr.14 at 1:37 pm
The Latvian says:
Very well written and researched. Enjoyed the read.
Apr.14 at 1:38 pm
People's Princess says:
Why do we continually underestimate the impact that D West and Peja have had on the Hornet’s season?? Not to mention Chandler who’s been right up there with Camby for “Best Shot Blocker/Intimidator” award.I read somewhere the CP3/Chandler combo has the most alleyoops this season and by a huge margin at that.This continual obsession of the MSM to anoint CP3 the saviour,while conveniently ignoring the contributions of West and Peja on offense and Chandler on defense have left me “hoppin mad”.
Apr.14 at 1:38 pm
razorblade says:
i cant believe how much hate is thrown kb24´s way…amazing…if he scores then hes a ballhog but when jordan scored he was the best who ever played…hes been carrying a crappy team on his back up until this season when theyre finally good..but if lebron puts up stats hes mvp worthy….kobe shouldve been mvp the season he averaged 35 scored 81 in a game AND willed a lousy laker team into the playoffs….chris paul is good but he has a team around him…he even has an all star teammate kobe doesnt…the lakers have had so many injuries this season including kobe whos playing WITH A BROKEN FINGER IN HIS SHOOTING HAND!!!!….kobe is better defensively than both cp and lebron..hes just as good a facilitator and he should be getting his 3rd mvp not the first…its a damn shame he doesnt have on already…this world is just filled with haters…kobe bean bryant is the best player of all time !!!
Apr.14 at 1:39 pm
Tariq says:
namik: I agree that people should be consistent. There are no set criteria, but I think loosely most people would say that the award should reflect both individual brilliance AND team success. Which is why I DON’T think Kobe deserved the MVP the past 2 seasons, even though he’s been the best player in the league for, what, 4 seasons? I’m sorry, but my MVP does not play on a seventh or eighth seed (or fourth in the lEast). In my opinion, Kobe should be MVP because he has been the most CONSISTENTLY excellent player throughout the season AND his team will get the 1 seed in the West if they beat the Kings.
Apr.14 at 1:39 pm
Myles Brown says:
Slim Cochran wins.
Apr.14 at 1:40 pm
People's Princess says:
To quote the immortal words of Myles
Apr.14 at 1:50 pm
phanb says:
I understand that the mass majority of people nowadays are biased in some way shape or form… but this year the MVP debate has officially shown almost everyone’s bias towards certain players… LBJ get votes for playing on a team that is crap, but puts up monster numbers that seem to suggest that they would be NBADL without him… Don’t people realize the man sat out an important stretch at the beginning of the season with a sprain on his non-shooting hand and that it’s much easier when you can coast to the playoffs, taking games off as you choose??? while CP3 gets points for supposedly making West in an all-star and resurrecting a team singlehandedly… Don’t people realize they were one of the top teams last year when West & Chandler got hurt, which resulted in them missing the playoffs… hmmm seems to me that someone else in this year’s MVP debate also suffered a similar situation but battled through it… then there’s KG… granted you can’t be the MVP if it’s at least debatable that someone else on your team could be the MVP of your team… PP anyone? That brings us to KB24… Fractured finger, slightly affected, but un-daunted… Losing both your starting C & PF for a long stretch of games, but still the top seed in the W… Roster is Sans fellow all-star or all-stars… I think it’s quite clear when he’s on the court, he’s the best player in the game… If you were to tell me 4 years ago that Kobe would do what he did the past 3, starting with this year, and not win an MVP… I’d say you were crazy, but I’d believe you LOL Kobe is the rightful MVP this year… plain and simple… taking all things into consideration… Injuries, Rosters & Situations…
Apr.14 at 1:54 pm
Kadavour says:
Great job Myles. Great points Tariq. you guys have made my day with this discussion.
Apr.14 at 1:56 pm
Slim says:
Despite invoking the “Chewbacca Defense” I cosign the KBMVP movement. It was between Kobe and Paul prior to the recent showdown. 24 has come up clutch at the most crucial point of the season.
Apr.14 at 1:56 pm
Co Co says:
Damn Myles.
Apr.14 at 1:57 pm
Ryan Jones says:
1 A series
2 of
3 numbers used to
4 illustrate the
5 correctness
6 of my opinion.
Apr.14 at 2:01 pm
Myles Brown says:
Maybe Jeopardy wouldve worked better.
Apr.14 at 2:02 pm
Ryan Jones says:
Maybe?
Apr.14 at 2:03 pm
Myles Brown says:
Of course. Youre right again. I dont even know why I bother.
Apr.14 at 2:04 pm
Tariq says:
Ryan: I. F*ck
II. You
III. And
IV. The
V. Snarky
VI. Horse you rode in on.
Apr.14 at 2:06 pm
Kadavour says:
lmao Slim
Apr.14 at 2:07 pm
H to the izzo says:
Myles is right and Ryan is wrong.
Apr.14 at 2:11 pm
Kadavour says:
Izzo is right
Apr.14 at 2:11 pm
Slim says:
Exactly Kadavour.
Apr.14 at 2:13 pm
Ryan Jones says:
What everyone else said!
Apr.14 at 2:15 pm
H to the izzo says:
I disagree…………..probably.
Apr.14 at 2:17 pm
Cub Buenning says:
NCAA v. NBA? The POY/MVP is an after-thought, unimportant mention at the college level. The hyper-attention to the NBA award, however, fuels the thought that at this level it isn’t about the game, rather the individuals. Myles, this was a great piece and well written, but the topic bugs me for this reason. Hoop is hoop to me and I love the NBA, but this is much of why I am a sucka for the college game.
Apr.14 at 2:20 pm
TADOne says:
“I’m gonna get you, sucka.”
Apr.14 at 2:21 pm
Tariq says:
Cub: Excellent point.
Apr.14 at 2:21 pm
Cub Buenning says:
Then the discussion is more about whether their game translates to the next level (a fave of mine) Tyler Hansborough is the perfect example. Consensus POY, Consensus mid-1st rounder at best; average pro.
H, just for kicks, I would take Derrick Rose with the 1st pick regardless of team.
Apr.14 at 2:24 pm
TADOne says:
I tend to agree with you on the Derrick Rose point, Cub.
Apr.14 at 2:25 pm
H to the izzo says:
Cub:As you know,I disagree.I don’t think he should be given the no.1 pick just because he’s the last person we saw play.I’m sticking with Beasely but as Batman said to Robin in the 70’s cartoon when Robin was having trouble deciding which fruit he should by:”Any of them Robin,you can’t miss”.
Apr.14 at 2:25 pm
Myles Brown says:
Point taken Cub. But I’d still take the NBA over the league of indentured servitude any day.
Apr.14 at 2:26 pm
Cub Buenning says:
Just got word, my boy Melo is in a little more hot water…..
Apr.14 at 2:27 pm
tealish says:
Why should PG’s be discredited? This makes zero sense to me.
I agree Nash’s contributions were overblown because of the way he “made everyone better” - though true, it was exaggerated because of his position.
However, check Nash’s numbers and then CP’s digits. Forget CP’s a PG. That stat line is ridiculous. Now, factor in the fact that he runs a squad that leads the West -or second now. I’m not saying his supporting cast is trash. They’re pretty underrated IMO. But compare Kobe’s team and Paul’s team — if you’re unwilling to admit that the Lakeshow has better support around their guy, then I’m not even going to bother.
CP3 is MVP. Your PG argument makes no sense at all. Maybe if they changed the P to an S on Nba.com, you’d be more okay with crowning the true MVP this year?
Apr.14 at 2:28 pm
Holly MacKenzie says:
Cub, what’s up? Myles… you know where I stand and how much I agree with all of this. Also, I think it is pretty f*cking fantastic how you used CP3’s own words to explain why he is NOT mvp. You’re good, MB, really good.
Apr.14 at 2:29 pm
Cub Buenning says:
Fair enough, Max.
H, I was feeling that tho midway thru the year (check the records) as I saw maybe 90% of Memphis’ games this year.
Apr.14 at 2:29 pm
TADOne says:
More info please, Cub…..
Apr.14 at 2:30 pm
Cub Buenning says:
Happens too much with athletes. Call a cab. Dude lives maybe 10 mins outside of downtown. 20 spot at most!
Apr.14 at 2:30 pm
Cub Buenning says:
TAD, get it from my last comment?
Apr.14 at 2:31 pm
phanb says:
tealish… this is exactly why there was such an uproar from stats hounds and historians when Nash won 2 MVPs… take a little walk down memory lane and compare both Nash & CP3’s lines to one John Stockton… it’s funny how people forget about the old man but he never finished near the top 5 in any MVP vote… I challenge everyone to take a look at Stock’s lines…
Apr.14 at 2:34 pm
H to the izzo says:
And Cub,you can’t really make a bad decision with the 1st pick this year(unless you pick Brook Lopez).It’s either or and you can’t really go wrong with either as I was trying to say with that whole batman thing.I still pick Beasley for versatility and potential’s sake.
Apr.14 at 2:36 pm
Holly MacKenzie says:
uh oh, Cub. Does not sound good. ps, what’s your email?
Apr.14 at 2:39 pm
Cub Buenning says:
Potential? He could be Antonio McDyess very easily. (i love mac, for the record)
Don’t sleep on Brooke Lopez, btw.
or Robin….
Keep the batman lines coming too. I have about a half dozen (still in packaging) above my home desk. Not to continually give away my dorkiness, but.
Apr.14 at 2:41 pm
Cub Buenning says:
that robin/batman segue was a pleasant surprise.
I just watched Batman Begins again this weekend. Best movie made in the last ten years.
Apr.14 at 2:46 pm
Eboy says:
Better get ready for Iron Man, Cub. KG4MVPKB24MVPCP34MVP.
Apr.14 at 2:46 pm
H to the izzo says:
He has potential,moreso than Rose,IMO but as you pointed out potential can go either way,(see Thomas,Tim and Brown,Kwame).I’m not sleeping on Brook but he’s not a no.1 pick AT ALL.I actually prefer Robin for some reason as an long term NBA,I feel he has a more of a garaunteed role in the NBA where as Brook could crash and burn.
I have some GI Joe references I want to knock,but that will be at a later date.
Apr.14 at 2:49 pm
Eboy says:
Cub, what’s up with Melo and his DUI arrest?
Apr.14 at 2:51 pm
Holly MacKenzie says:
http://hardwoodparoxysm.blogspot.com/2008/04/jerry-buss-wakes-up-screaming-from-this.html
Apr.14 at 3:00 pm
Holly MacKenzie says:
and it wasn’t JR getting in trouble for once…
Apr.14 at 3:07 pm
Steven says:
Anyone here agree with the theory that the MVP award goes to the player that the majority feels will go the furthest in the playoffs/win the title that year?
Apr.14 at 3:08 pm
Steven says:
In other words, it’s gotta be KG or Kobe.
Apr.14 at 3:09 pm
Tariq says:
Holly: Awesome.
Apr.14 at 3:10 pm
Sam Rubenstein says:
looked into the Carmelo thing. Thanks Eboy. It’s other news now, I guess it belongs on top but it’s there.
Apr.14 at 3:20 pm
eric g says:
this award is completely meaningless. thank god Carmelo didn’t hurt anybody.
Apr.14 at 3:49 pm
Jonathan says:
Much props to you, man. This article covers every base, and is probably the best article I’ve read on the “MVP candidates” this year. If only all MVP voters would read this article, we might have a truly justified MVP this year. You should tell John Hollinger, and some of his friends at ESPN to quit their positions, cause as much as people read their sh!t, half the time they write the stupidest things. ESPN needs you.
Again, great article…can’t stress that enough.
Apr.14 at 3:50 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
Just read your epic piece myles. great stuff man. i agree with alot of what u said. Remember i wrote a column last yr saying kobe was one of the ten best players ever. So nobody needs to remind me of how good of a player he is. The fact that he doesn’t have a mvp award is laughable. That being said you easily dimissed the abilities of playing for phil jackson vs byron scott, playing for a emotionaly invested and financially flexible fanbase and a roster full of players who may have not been great in years but who have been good enough to give 2 really competitive series to what is/was suppossed to be a superior phx team the last two yrs vs a economically depressed fanbase in NO, a roster with players playing after their prime (peja), with basketball limitations (chandler, who btw i think is great but doesn’t have any real developed post moves) and who just arent really that good begin with (ely). Plus he’s doing in front of sparse crowds (the attendance is bigger now but thats relatively recent) in a city still reeling psychologically and logistically from the worst disaster in our generation. CP’s been able to make bball matter to people who have bigger issues to deal with. And in a division with the last 3 WC Finals members in it which includes the defending champion spurs. You also dismissed CP’s numbers. Going from 43 % to 49 % is huge and the fact that he’s the 1st player in over a decade to avg 20 pts and 10 assts encourages me to ask the same question you posed to us. What else could he have done? How much better would cp have had to play to warrant mvp success??
Apr.14 at 4:14 pm
TADOne says:
Thank you, Khalid.
Apr.14 at 4:19 pm
Myles Brown says:
Thanks Khalid. I really didnt consider coaches in my evaluation, perhaps there is something to that.
And I think that Kobe did play for the more prestigious franchise while Paul played in front of sparse crowds, but the Lakers werent exactly stable coming into this season either and the added media attention just put more pressure on Kobe to perform. Peja is past his prime, but 45% from 3 is still amazing considering that he takes 7 per game. And Chandler certainly is playing the best ball of his life, but his lack of post moves are compensated for with his length and jumping ability to finish off those CP3 alleys. I think those two make things easier for each other. Paul has the vision to make the play but Chandler still has to finish it. Its not that easy. I saw Turiaf miss like three dunks in yesterdays game and Gasol blew an alley himself. But N.O.’s bench is mad thin. And LA’s was up until this year too, but again I think thats due to the experience they gained from being in the playoffs the last two years. Thats all thanks to Kobe. I didnt want to discount Pauls numbers as much as I wanted to put them back in perspective. He has obviously worked on his game and he deserves credit for that, but having West and Peja back with Chandler looming as a threat for an alley all the time also gives him a lot more space to operate and get a shot off. Defenses cant key in on him as much as they did last year and that has to count in that percentage jump. He has put pride back in the Big Easy and they should be a formidable opponent as long as hes around and its not that I dont ever want him to win an MVP, its just that I cant give it to him so quickly considering the circumstances. The two players Im considering in front of him are more tenured, more versatile and their teams are better at this point. I really dont want to come off as a CP hater but he didnt do as much as Kobe or KG in my opinion.
Apr.14 at 4:20 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Replace Paul with an average point guard, Kobe with an average two, and KG with an average four. Which team suffers the most? I’ll bet it’s not the Hornets. Without in any way impugning what’s been a tremendous season for Paul, I just think the whole “making your teammates better” aspect of MVP has been overblown in recent years, and that plays directly into the hands of a great point guard. Because “making teammates better” is part of the damn job description. It’s tangible, right there in numbers. While for a two guard or power forward, that impact is harder to measure. Do I think Chris Paul is a fantastic player? Of course. Is he a worthy MVP candidate? Most definitely. Should he win? I don’t think so. Not this year.
Apr.14 at 4:26 pm
Captain America says:
CP3=MVP, wear it, sucka!
Apr.14 at 4:33 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
I find the biggest problem with these types of arguments is the fact that picking one player over another is seen as a diss of the one (or three) not selected. And then the argument becomes, ‘oh, you’re saying so-and-so isn’t good enough?’ I don’t think that’s the point. The NBA has been selecting an MVP since 1955-56. There has never been a shared award. Worthy players have ALWAYS been passed over. You could probably look at 75 percent of the years and make a strong case for a player (or two, or three) who DIDN’T win. It’s not about who’s deserving and who isn’t. It’s about who’s MOST deserving. And right now I think the most deserving is either Kevin Garnett or Kobe Bryant. Right now I’m leaning towards KG. Not sure how many people here would agree with me, but I’ll bet Bill Russell does.
Apr.14 at 4:38 pm
Shooter#9 - Brasil says:
when nowitzki won that trophy, after back to back nash, and that steal when kidd was a complete dominant player when joined the nets…
well, nowitzki won, that said… i mean… who still cares for who they are gonna say its the mvp?
everybody knows who is the best in this fu*%#%(cking planet and this man is Kobe Bryant.
If you love this guy, or if you love basketball, you know its him, if you are a hater, well, you better stop watching basketball cause you are just mediocre.
Apr.14 at 4:39 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
I’m just saying……..Chris Andersen Hilton Armstrong
Ryan Bowen Rasual Butler Tyson Chandler Melvin Ely
Mike James Jannero Pargo Chris Paul Morris Peterson
Peja Stojakovic Bonzi Wells David West Julian Wright
Apr.14 at 4:41 pm
eric g says:
I’m still not convinced that Paul, Kobe or KG do as much for their team as LeBron does for his. The Cavs obviously haven’t been as successful as those teams, but that’s largely the fault of injuries, an incompetent coach (maybe that’s a bit harsh), and the front office — things that are mostly out of LeBron’s control. That big trade was just a re-shuffling of dookie ball players, and it only served to make the team older and less athletic. The term most valuable ‘player’ suggests that its an individual award, and I think people should respect that, regardless of the precedents that have been set (why should anyone follow precedent if the voters so often get it wrong?). I’m not entirely sure LeBron should get it, but the fact that he’s being pushed out of the conversation makes absolutely no sense. He’s been playing at a higher level than everyone else, and the other candidates don’t have near the same offensive burden to carry.
Apr.14 at 4:43 pm
Myles Brown says:
Ill take David West and Peja for 74 and 75 games respectively over 26 and 35 games from Pau and Bynum. West played in and started more games than Pau and Gasol did combined. And L.A. still has the better record.
Apr.14 at 4:45 pm
Myles Brown says:
The Cavs have a negative point differential. You can’t win MVP when your team can’t even outscore the opponent over the course of a season.
Apr.14 at 4:45 pm
Myles Brown says:
*Pau and Gasol and Andrew and Bynum. Whoops.
Apr.14 at 5:03 pm
Allenp says:
“In addition to that point, I made various assertions on why the point guard is a valuable position, but not as valuable as other players on the floor. These assertions are what Im assuming were on the minds of voters who continually ignored point guards over the years.” I can’t believe you wrote this Myles. I’m going to have to go through the rest of the posts and hope you clarified this comment. There is no way someone as astute as you believes point guard is not the most valuable or second most valuable position on a team. I think the ranking goes: 1. Dominant two-way big man 2. Pass-first, but able to score point guard.
Apr.14 at 5:04 pm
Allenp says:
Oh, and Magic put up like 22, 12 and 8 when he won one of his MVPs. I think Paul with 21, 11.5 and 3 steals is worthy of MVP consideration. He doesn’t have the rebounds magic had, but his overall defense is much, much better.
Apr.14 at 5:07 pm
lawrence moten says:
I used to think that people that wrote in magazines and were on TV just knew all this info more than everyone else did on whatever topic they were covering. Not at all true. No way Kobe is MVP over CP3 when you look at all the facts you tried unsuccessfully to state. Get off the hype and stop trying to impress all of your fellow sellouts at SLAM, make up your own mind and maybe you will one day be respected in your opinion.
Apr.14 at 5:16 pm
Allenp says:
Russ, let’s actually pick some average players and play out your scenario. Average two guard=Anthony Parker. Average power forward=Joe Smith. Average point guard=Jamaal Tinsley. Are you really arguing that given the offensive styles the Lakers, Hornets and Celtics use, that the HOrnets wouldn’t suffer more from losing Paul? The entire Hornets system is dependent on Paul being great. I believe West is a horse, and underrated back to the basket player with an outstanding jumpshot. He’s much more like Karl Malone than Boozer will ever be. That said, outside of West, not a single player on the Hornets team can consistently create a shot for themselves. No one. Compare that to the Lakers with Gasol, and the Celts with Pierce and Ray-Ray, and well I thinkt he Hornets suffer more if they are depending on Tinsley to “make everyone better.”
Apr.14 at 5:24 pm
phanb says:
Khalid - He would have willed them to win in Utah & LA… I hate to say that but that’s what I think… Don’t get me wrong, he’s bringing flashbacks to a young Zeke but when guys like Peja & West are sinking game winners and it’s time for the best player on the team to do something, you’d think they would have won those games right? Paul is the only other candidate that I think justifies being mentioned with Kobe for this… as much as people want to throw LBJ & KG in the debate, those guys are sorely lacking in one aspect or another
Apr.14 at 5:32 pm
eric g says:
“The Cavs have a negative point differential. You can’t win MVP when your team can’t even outscore the opponent over the course of a season.” Why not? That doesn’t mean that the other candidates for this individual award are playing better or contributing more than LeBron.
Apr.14 at 5:32 pm
phanb says:
Knocks on LBJ… dude sat 7 games… has given up on his team on some nights… plays in the East… his off game is sorely limited to just dribbling back to half court and bull rushing the high screen & roll (which I really think the NBA should start calling some of these outrageously illegal picks)…
Apr.14 at 5:35 pm
phanb says:
Knocks on KG… PP may be the real MVP of that team, as seen when KG was out… He is not the go to guy when the games on the line… He plays with 2 other all stars… I don’t care if the bench was wack… That’s 38+ minutes at 3 positions, you shouldn’t need much of a bench, which I would argue is pretty damn strong with Cassell, Allen, Posey & Big Baby…
Apr.14 at 5:44 pm
eric g says:
Honestly, is it even possible to determine which player is the league’s most “valuable”, especially when you’re comparing across positions like this. I really don’t think you can. Winning is the product of any number of things, many of them intangible (this is a TEAM sport after all). Its easy to gauge “performan