Links: Year of the Rookie
Horford? Durant? You make the call…
Big night tonight for Atlanta Hawks fans all around the world — OK, for me, Myung and Coco. The Hawks and Pacers square off tonight at 7:00 with the 8th spot in the East on the line. Well, it’s not really on the line, but the Pacers are on their last gasp, and the Hawks can make the magic number 1 with four games left. I’m wearing my Hawks hoodie today in celebration…you know, the one I had to buy last weekend in Atlanta at Philips Arena because you can’t buy Hawks gear anywhere else.
Also, before we get to today’s topic, one link I enjoyed this morning: I have a new favorite soccer team. They could probably take Arsenal, at least.
Anyway, I wanted to talk today about the Rookie Of The Year award. My ballot is due in a little over a week, and I haven’t really decided who I’m voting for in any of the categories, so I’ll get to more of the awards later this week. But Rookie of the Year is particularly vexing to me.
Before the season started, everyone seemed certain that Kevin Durant would be the ROY. After all, the Sonics were in the midst of dismantling their team and screwing over their fans and the city that has supported them, so Durant was going to be their main offensive option. As it turned out, Durant was their best offensive player, and through 75 games he’s averaged 20 points per game.
Meanwhile, in Atlanta, Al Horford quickly worked his way into the starting lineup and has done the dirty work all season long. Through 76 games, Horford has averaged almost exactly half as many points per game as Durant (on almost exactly half as many shots per game), but he’s also averaging 9.7 rebounds per game, including 3 offensive boards per night.
I’ve enjoyed watching several rookies this season, from Luis Scola to Jamario Moon to my man Yi. But in my mind, Durant and Horford are the two best rookies out there. It’s deciding between them that’s so tough.
Durant has been excellent offensively, but his team is terrible. Horford isn’t as important to the Hawks as Durant is to the Sonics, but the Hawks are about (fingers crossed) to make the Playoffs for the first time in about 200 years. Horford continues to crank out double-doubles, while Durant leads the Sonics in points, blocks, steals and free throws (makes and percentage). Durant had his own cool NBA commercial…
While Al made one himself that’s pretty cool, too…
Durant is the more polished player, but Horford is the more productive player, even though he’s played out of position most of the season. By the way, does anyone care about Durant’s bench press anymore?
The toughest thing for me in deciding how to vote is that I’m obviously biased toward Horford, because I’ve watched about 50 more Hawks games than Sonics games this season. Plus I get money from the Hawks. (Although you’ll notice I had to buy my own Hawks sweatshirt.) And the last thing I want to do is be a Swirsky on this. If I vote for Horford, it’s going to be because he deserves it, not because he plays for the Hawks.
The question it, who deserves it? The guy who has put fans in the seats or the guy who has helped put Ws in the win column?
So, I’m turning to you guys to help me make up my mind. Who do you think deserves the award? Who has been the Rookie of the Year?
170 Responses to “Links: Year of the Rookie”
Apr.8 at 3:36 pm
Dan says:
Horford.
Apr.8 at 3:40 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
What Dan said.
Apr.8 at 3:40 pm
Bryan says:
Durant also plays out of his natural position I think but when he plays in the frontcourt he does a little more of everything.
Apr.8 at 3:42 pm
Josh says:
Horford for sure
Apr.8 at 3:43 pm
Myles Brown says:
What Dan and Russ said.
Apr.8 at 3:43 pm
floe says:
gotta be durant
Apr.8 at 3:47 pm
Blue says:
Luis Scola? Hey…no one saw it coming in the FIBA Games, either…
Apr.8 at 3:47 pm
H to the izzo says:
Luis Scola
Apr.8 at 3:49 pm
Co Co says:
http://www.al4roy.com/
Apr.8 at 3:52 pm
Joel O's says:
Yi Jianl-… ahh who am I kidding? Al Horford. 10-and-10 and being the rock for the resurgent Hawks is a lot more meaningful than Durant, whose perpetual green light to jack up any and every shot takes away from his occasional brilliance.
Apr.8 at 3:54 pm
Bigi says:
Short,short people…what is it with you guys?
Apr.8 at 3:55 pm
Co Co says:
It’s Al. No one heart’s Durant more than me,
http://coco-vents.blogspot.com/2007/11/my-fan-crush-did-us-in.html
but let’s face it he was going to have every opportunity to average 20 since they traded away everyone who could possibly take away shots from him. He’s their first second and third option. Al has to do dirty work to get most of his points. If that isn’t enough to convince you, Al is adorable. There.
Apr.8 at 3:56 pm
Andre says:
Did you see the nuggets sonics game, durant hit a three to tie it up in regulation, and then he hit a three that was closer to half court than it was to the three line to send the game to the second overtime. Those two shots where gilbert like, you have to give it to Durant, no doubt.
Apr.8 at 3:57 pm
Co Co says:
All of my comments are awaiting moderation.
Apr.8 at 3:58 pm
andacagar says:
Luis Scola!
Apr.8 at 3:58 pm
Eboy says:
Al.
Apr.8 at 4:01 pm
Dutch Rich says:
Scola.
Plays 7 min less than Horford yet has almost same PPG, higher FG% and his team wins more games despite the loss of superstar center.
If that criteria is applied when picking MVP than it should find it’s place in this category as well.
Only drawback is less rebounds but I bet ya he boxes out like the best of them.
Apr.8 at 4:03 pm
Kadavour says:
What Myles said. Scola ain’t no rook to this game.
Apr.8 at 4:04 pm
JAMS says:
Al could make a pretty awesome volleyball player also, as he showed spiz’ikin t.j. ford’s head to the floor.
Apr.8 at 4:04 pm
WhaHuh says:
I dont know if i like that Horford video. Do you really need self publicity for ROY? It was an unnecessary shot at durant, who probably didn’t even come up with the concept.
Apr.8 at 4:07 pm
Co Co says:
Uh of course you need self publicity. That’s why the Blazers sent out mp3’s of Brandon Roy and why teams are making websites for their players who are candidates for awards.
Apr.8 at 4:07 pm
Dutch Rich says:
I guess we will have this conversation next year when Granpa Oden aka Bill Russell (on Just for Men) aka Africa Bambaata (on Nutrisystem) is up for votes.
Apr.8 at 4:13 pm
dubsgondoit says:
Has to be Horford. With the Hawks gunning for the playoffs & the Sonics sneaking out the backdoor of Seattle…give it to Big Al.
Apr.8 at 4:15 pm
hansosword says:
Unless you live in LA you don’t really see the Clippers much, but a few years from now we still might consider Al THORNTON the best player to come out in 06. Some nights he really looks like young T-Mac ( when maggette actually gives up the ball..)
Apr.8 at 4:17 pm
Ron says:
I think too much of the voting process is based on winning. Amare beat Yao only because his team won more games. But overall who is the better player? Horford is having a great season, but Durant is by far the best player on his team and will be for years to come. He is my pick for ROY.
Apr.8 at 4:23 pm
thesubwayconnection says:
I’d like to pick Durant for his game this year and the OT thriller against Denver. But Horford’s been consistent, a key to surviving in the pros. And his team’s going somewhere (other than OKC). Horford.
Apr.8 at 4:27 pm
RV says:
I disagree that Al and Durant are the two best rookies, Scola, this year anyway, is just as good, but obviously in a different way than each of them. Now, if the argument is that he’s not really a rookie, or he’s got much more pro experience, then I can’t argue with that, it does give him an advantage so thats the only reason why he shouldn’t get it. Between Horford and Durant, Al should get it because the guy plays solid whether he’s going against boston and KG or whoever the knicks got at PF these days. Durant has had those games were he gets shut out and can’t really contribute any other way. If you want the best rookie period, its Scola, he’s got the numbers, the complete game, he’s a big reason why the rockets continued to win, and he even has the nickname (Razor Ramone).
Apr.8 at 4:27 pm
k$ says:
durant… the hawks are barely squeeking in in the miserable east
Apr.8 at 4:31 pm
RV says:
Ron, the vote shouldn’t be about who’s going to be better, but who’s had the best rookie season, and duran’t being the best player on the team isn’t saying much when the rest of the guys are pretty much back ups or role guys
Apr.8 at 4:32 pm
Holly MacKenzie says:
That performance by Durant the other night in the Denver game showed me that KD is the most talented rookie, however Al is much more valuable to his team and he does not have the green light to try and score 20+ppg. He averages half of those points on an efficient half of the shots and he does everything that is needed of him for his team. With the Hawks finally making the jump into the playoffs this year, a lot of that success has to be attributed to Al and this is why he is my Rookie of the Year.
Apr.8 at 4:32 pm
Co Co says:
Al’s advantage is that he can do more than just score. Durant is a one trick pony right now.
Apr.8 at 4:38 pm
Dutch Rich says:
Now gitty up
Apr.8 at 4:40 pm
tealish says:
Durant does things like, shooting 2 for 17. Horford.
Apr.8 at 4:42 pm
Bryan says:
You know I know the adage “even garbage teams have a player who puts up numbers” but Durant is the only threat to score on an NBA team , you don’t think defenses key on that? And he still gets 20 ppg.
Apr.8 at 4:45 pm
Dutch Rich says:
Yeah teams like Dallas who he shot 28% against.
Apr.8 at 4:46 pm
Co Co says:
And Lang, as they say, don’t bite the hand that feeds you. Although I’m sure you aren’t making a King’s Ransom writing for the Hawks, we’d still appreciate a vote for Al! We won’t judge you….
Apr.8 at 4:47 pm
Cheryl says:
I think you gotta go with Horford. His team’s in the playoffs, he’s a big part of that, he’s actually exceeded expectations, and… he’s such a cutie. But, besides to Co Co and me, that probably doesn’t count, does it?
Apr.8 at 4:50 pm
RV says:
Bryan, teams also say, lets let him jack up as many shots as he wants and focus on the other guys. Its much easier to stop them than it is to stop him, and he’s not likely to score 70+ pts. There’s a reason why he only averages 2 assists a game, if all the defenses keyed on him he’d average at least 5 or 6.
Apr.8 at 4:51 pm
Co Co says:
Cheryl if his adorableness is not a factor then the voting system is flawed!
Apr.8 at 5:01 pm
pierluigi says:
Luis Scola!
Apr.8 at 5:07 pm
Ryan Jones says:
Any psychologists on the board today? Somebody needs to examine Lang’s obsession with short people. Sh*t can’t be healthy.
Also, to answer the ROY question: Kevin Love.
Apr.8 at 5:08 pm
its just alex says:
It counts to me too, Cheryl.
Apr.8 at 5:09 pm
TripleDouble says:
This guy. http://youtube.com/watch?v=vT5lGKl-lro
Apr.8 at 5:18 pm
DP says:
hmm…..Horford. more consistent than Kevin.
Apr.8 at 5:19 pm
j rich says:
any team can beat aresenal with the ref they had tonight.
Apr.8 at 5:26 pm
namik says:
Langs love of midgets is almost fetish-istic. Almost.
Apr.8 at 5:30 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Can’t vote Kevin Love for anything until he loses the chinstrap. Hate to break it to ya, K, but House of Pain broke up like 10 years ago. And Notre Dame already has a mascot.
Apr.8 at 5:39 pm
Michael Tillery says:
Yeah I’m kissin’ up to Co Co…Horford. Plus he told me so himself. That’s gotta count for something right?
Apr.8 at 5:42 pm
RV says:
And i don’t think that video is a shot at durant, more of a reference to him, he’s not attacking him, just saying, “hey, i know the spotlight is on him, but this is what I’ve done this yr”….and the Hawks probably had more to do with making the video than he did, the team also benefits from him winning the ROY.
Apr.8 at 5:48 pm
Bubba Chuck says:
Jeff Green
Apr.8 at 5:54 pm
blsadf says:
durant!!!! he is the main player on the team and the best 37 point 9 assists 7 rebounds i mean comon thats like a good game for king james kd for sssuuuuuuuurrreee his team will get a few champ rings after sonics get derrick rose
Apr.8 at 5:54 pm
Allen says:
Joakim Noah
Apr.8 at 5:54 pm
Lz - Cphfinest3 says:
Scola. Horford. Durrant in that order.
Apr.8 at 5:58 pm
jj says:
LUIS SCOLA!!!!!!!!
Apr.8 at 6:03 pm
chiqo says:
east coast bias. durant.
Apr.8 at 6:10 pm
Adam says:
Horford all the way! I hate Florida so much that I wasn’t excited at all when we drafted him. Now he’s one of my favorite players. Ever seen him run the break? I swear it takes him only 3 steps to get from one end of the court to the other.
Apr.8 at 6:15 pm
Eazy-Yi says:
Corey who?
Apr.8 at 6:15 pm
Adam says:
Not to mention he’s got a little old school in him. When he goes for the hard foul, he makes sure that layup isn’t going in!
Apr.8 at 6:15 pm
WeS says:
KD.
Apr.8 at 6:16 pm
Eazy-Yi says:
Shawn Marion has made a ROY commercial too
Apr.8 at 6:20 pm
Adam says:
Corey did give us 18 rebounds back in December
Apr.8 at 6:24 pm
what says:
Hey, I’m a Hawks fan too. Alfred Joel Horford Reynoso it is.
Apr.8 at 6:26 pm
Tariq says:
I think Durant will wind up being the better player, and in ten years people will be saying “Can you believe Horford won ROY over KD?” But Horford still should be ROY. He’s had the more productive season.
Apr.8 at 6:31 pm
centcharg says:
don’t you remember when the nuggets blew out the sonics and kevin
Apr.8 at 6:32 pm
Nick says:
Luis Scola. Forget guys who stacked points being the primar scorer on a bad team or playing a weak league. The rockets are 28-5 with Scola at starting PF, and 22-20 before that. He’s kept them winning without Yao. He is 2nd in the league in looking like a zombie.
Apr.8 at 6:34 pm
Nick says:
Make Scola the primary scorer on the sonics or give him Horford’s role on the Hawks, and he has a statistically better season than either. He shouldn’t be penalized for being on a better team. In fact, he should be rewarded for being a key contributor to that team. Oh, and i meant 24-20 before scola got slotted in. Fuzzy math.
Apr.8 at 6:45 pm
Nick says:
Scola is averaging 12.4 and 7.2 as a starter.
Apr.8 at 6:49 pm
Nick says:
His only substantial statistical loss to Horford is in rebounding. However, keep in mind that the Rockets are top 5 in the league in rebounding, which indicates A. Scola boxes out well and protects his fellow rebounders, and, B. Scola is less likely to average a higher number of boards because of other strong rebounders on the team. He also plays seven less MPG than Al.
Apr.8 at 6:50 pm
Nick says:
Scola would also crush either other contender in a steel cage match, and can bench 3 kevin durants.
Apr.8 at 6:51 pm
Nick says:
My Scola for ROY jihad is now over. Temporarily. I will return when people actually want to argue with me.
Apr.8 at 6:56 pm
Kevin says:
i want Al Horford to win it, and i think he deserves it more. that being said, i think the press will pick Durant
Apr.8 at 6:59 pm
iLL wiLL says:
KD for ROY. If AL was in Horford’s situation he would be a wreck. KD’s got opponents game planning to stop him, yet the kid is averaging 20 ppg. I don’t care about the argument of him having no other options. Boo hoo. Dude has answered the call game in and game out and he’s delivered. All Horford has to do is rebound and get some garbage buckets behind guys like Joe Johnson, JSmoove and Bibby. Not to say his role is insignificant, but he doesn’t have to do a whole lot.
Apr.8 at 7:43 pm
David says:
Durant. If you went back to start of the draft, would Seattle change it’s pick? If Atlanta had the #2 pick, would they not have taken KD?
Apr.8 at 7:54 pm
RV says:
iLL wiLL, going 2 for 17 every once in a while isn’t answering the call game in and game out. Horford still managed to get 10 pts per behind shooting whores like Bibby, Johnson, and Smith, which isn’t easy. Also, rebounding 10 boards a game isn’t easy either. The most important factor is consistency. KD would have barely shot 40% for the season had it not been for a hot streak of 53% shooting in march. Al averaged 10 or more boards every month except 2 where he averaged just above 8.
Apr.8 at 7:58 pm
RV says:
David, there’s not question durant will be the better scorer and possibly better all around player eventually. Draft picks aren’t picked based on one year, but for the future as well. ROY awards ARE for one year though.
Apr.8 at 8:02 pm
iLL wiLL says:
RV, who else do the Hawks have in their front court that rebounds outside of JSmoove? Yeah. Grabbing 10 boards in all those minutes is not THAT impressive.
As we speak, Jeff Foster is bending Al Horford over. No homo. 10 points for JFoss already in the first half. Horford is on the bench in foul trouble.
That 2 for 17 performance was merely a fluke.
Apr.8 at 8:22 pm
Ro says:
Sounds like you aready made up your mind Chuck…I mean Lang…
Apr.8 at 8:53 pm
crdrumz says:
The other Al (Thornton)!!!!!
Apr.8 at 9:39 pm
Clendon says:
Al with out a doubt
Apr.8 at 9:46 pm
Robbi says:
Damn, Nick. Those were some good points… But the fact of the matter is, some of that is pure speculation. Yeah, Scola might be better than both of them, but the fact that Al Horford and KD performed better statistically and had bigger roles on their teams should make them the favorites. Also, they are way younger than Scola, who is really a rookie in title only. With that said, I think Horford should get the nod, because he is much more efficient than KD.
Apr.8 at 9:55 pm
Nick says:
Robbi: true about the stat’s being more important, and true about Scola not really being a rookie. Anyone who is 27 with two Euroleague MVPS, who started on a Gold Medal team, who beat out Lebro, Kobe, and Carmello for the Fiba MVP (dropping 20 on team USA in both games against them and outplaying Howard) is really not so much a rookie. I still think he has upside though(for example, he gets in foul trouble a lot and hasn’t figured out how to defend quicker 4s (amare, bosh, etc) who would just get beat up under international rules.
Apr.8 at 9:57 pm
Nick says:
I think Scola will be third in votes with a paltry few, honestly, i just think being a key player on a really good team should be prefered over being a key part on a mediocre or atrocious team.
Apr.8 at 10:03 pm
Paps says:
Leave Chuck alone.
Apr.8 at 10:05 pm
RV says:
iLL will, grabbing 10 boards in all those minutes is easy, once, twice, maybe 3 or 4 times, but not for an 82 game season. if it was, you and me would be suiting up right now. There’s only one basketball. the guy with the ball is the only guy who has the chance to score. When you rebound its not the same. there’s 10 guys on the floor all with a good chance at the rebound. I’ll give you that 2-17 was a fluke, but what about the 2 for 12? 4 of 17? 5 of 20? 3 of 12? 3 of 17? 3 of 12 (again)? 2 of 12 (again)? 3 of 17 (again)?
Apr.8 at 10:08 pm
iLL wiLL says:
Getting lit up by Jeff Foster is not hot. He hurt his own chances tonight.
We all know KD is gonna win it anyways.
Apr.8 at 10:14 pm
RV says:
Speaking of fluke’s, Foster’s 10 pt first half was exactly that, since he finished the game with…10 pts.. Horford had short minutes due to foul trouble and Durant’s got 13pts on 12 shots, so i guess their bad performances cancel out tonight and we’re right back where this argument started..
Apr.8 at 10:42 pm
Nick says:
RV, kindly join your fellow houstonian on the Scola express.
Apr.8 at 10:45 pm
Logan Light says:
HERE’S THE DIFFERENCE: Horford came into a situation where he needed to learn his role quickly and preform highly. He did just that and now the Hawks are extending their season. Durant entered a Seattle team with a green light… no matter what. He’s been gunning… and gunning… and gunning. Has he really learned a system? Has he had to cope with trusting his teammates nearly as much? You got to give it to Horford.
Apr.8 at 10:47 pm
RV says:
nick, i did mention Scola as #1 at the top earlier, but I can’t really argue with him being a true rookie, the guy has been in battles and has played ball pro ball for a while now, plus he’s played against pros around the world, at the highest level possible..its not even fair to call him a rookie, but thats a good thing for him and rockets’ fans.
Apr.8 at 10:55 pm
RV says:
and Durant comes through once again with…..ZERO big points in the 4th..
Apr.8 at 10:58 pm
Nick says:
Yeah i can’t really deny that. But he is an NBA rookie, and that’s what the award is for. I mean, Yi is probably 30, but that doesn’t disqualify him…
Apr.8 at 11:18 pm
Nick says:
Speaking of Yi, 25.0 minutes per game, even. The city of Miluakee apparently knows better than to f*ck with china. Gambling implications for lang there.
Apr.8 at 11:33 pm
RV says:
yeah, but he still went out for the season with an injury…..since when do they let female players wear long sleeve shirts under their unis? just noticed that in the final tonight, and its not one of those compression shirts kobe wore
Apr.9 at 12:43 am
TC says:
I will eat my hat if Durant doesn’t win the ROY award.
Apr.9 at 1:21 am
Robbi says:
Nick: I agree that Scola is an NBA rookie, and maybe that shouldn’t affect whether Lang should vote for him or not. But Al Horford has just been too consistently good all season long that he deserves it. Scola, if I remember correctly, started off the season less than impressive. Horford started the season the way he’s ending it now. Horford’s still my pick. BTW, cool site, Nick. Just posted something fresh on my blog, maybe you’d like to check it out.
Apr.9 at 1:22 am
Robbi says:
Where the hell is Lang in all of this?!?!
Apr.9 at 3:08 am
Fyan says:
Derrick Rose for ROY even though I thought this this is the easiest award for Mr Whitaker to vote for. Anyways bring on Chelski!!!!
Apr.9 at 3:47 am
matt the jazz fan says:
Scola, no doubt!
Apr.9 at 4:37 am
Jukai says:
This is why I hate slamonline posters. There’s no arguement for why Durant should be rookie of the year. None. This is not MVP voting. Who cares about his teams record. Isn’t the POINT of the lottery so that the better players go on the worst team? You guys are numskulls. Damn…
Apr.9 at 4:41 am
Jukai says:
The more I read this the more shocked I am… Durant is a one trick poney? The same Durant has greater stats than Al in every statistical catagory except for rebounds and shooting percentage? Al is more valuble to his team? The team that has Bibby, Smith and Johnson? Am I reading this crap?
Apr.9 at 4:49 am
Jukai says:
I’d like to see Hortford deal with double teams every night on a team with the next best player being Nick Collison while playing out of position in the west and see if he maintains his incredible scoring average of… 10 points. Dude ain’t even averaging 50% shooting, and all the guy does is sit under the basket and try to get put backs. He’s taller and bigger than Kevin Durant yet averages the same amount of blocks in a game… hell, I’d argue that Kevin Durant is a better defender cause he deals with FAR better competition everyday.
Apr.9 at 4:55 am
Jukai says:
So what has Hortford done that is better than Durant besides rebounding on a team which only has one guy who is taller than him but plays half the minutes?? Win games. Sorry, but that shouldn’t have anything to do with figuring in Rookie of the Year. Kevin Durant went to Seattle who traded away their only two players who could score on the team, leaving… nobody. Atlanta, on the other hand, procured a once incredible point guard to play alongside their two super powered scorers. I mean, compare starting fives… it’s a joke. The only thing that should effect yourself is this big question: WHICH TEAM WOULD BE EFFECTED MORE IF EITHER OF THOSE PLAYERS HAD A SEASON ENDING INJURY? I’mmmmmmmmm going to have to go with Seattle on this one.
Apr.9 at 4:55 am
Jukai says:
and just a note, the first post whould read “Why Durant SHOULDN’T be rookie of the year.” Glad I got THAT all out.
Apr.9 at 5:38 am
hursty says:
hmmm. Al horford is a funny walking guy with a much more ‘cut’ left arm… no homo. Scola is more polished. Horford. But Scola is 6′9 centre and is a major reason for the Rockets not self-destructing after Yao.
Apr.9 at 5:44 am
hursty says:
durant still hasnt seen a weights room. Apparently all seattles gym equipment is already in storage for the move….
Apr.9 at 5:55 am
hursty says:
durant is a god awful defender Jukai, his lateral quickness on D is shockingly poor. watching Tmac shred him up this week was embarassing. Funny that he is explosive in ALL directions on attack. Yes, he has the ability to play D when he is… rgh i dont know… ‘locked in’ but so do all players that have a competitive spirit who want to win. I know that durant has to REACT on D but how often do you see him up in the face of the player Ron Ron style or 2004 bowen? D em up 3 feet away, he lets em shoot then watches the ball. IF he boxed out then thats 1 or 2 other boards on D and if he slapped the ball up for a tip in in Attack, then thats 3-4 boards a night extra, he skips backwards on D watching a miss while the sonics are reeling trying to stop fastbreaks comin the other way. So, if he boarded up on attack, he 1. gives the other players a chance to transition back 2. gets 2nd chance plays. 3. Jams the outlet 4. adds to his stats. Horford and Scola do those same things. Little things that win ball games. If he and Green put more effort into containing rather than lapsing into one shot executions, that 5-8 points in attack they put on and 4-6 points they single-handedly prevent on D. 9-14 points WIN BALL GAMES. more wins = more votes for ROY. nuff said.
Apr.9 at 6:11 am
karan says:
definately horford
Apr.9 at 6:36 am
Tariq says:
Jukai: “The only thing that should effect yourself is this big question: WHICH TEAM WOULD BE EFFECTED MORE IF EITHER OF THOSE PLAYERS HAD A SEASON ENDING INJURY?” If that’s your only criterion, then KD is definitely the ROY. But I don’t agree with that method of evaluation. And maybe your shock would subside a little if you noticed that a lot of us conceded that KD was the more talented player who will likely have the better career. That’s not the issue, however. The real question is this: who has had a more productive season? And it’s far from clear-cut. Horford could NOT do what KD is doing. But Horford IS contributing significantly to a (probably) playoff-bound team while NOT being the focal point of the team. If the only basis for these awards were talent, there’s no way Kobe would have zero MVPs while Dirk has 1 and Nash has 2.
Apr.9 at 8:25 am
TADOne says:
Horford would get my vote. All the arguments are compelling, but the one that makes the most sense is Tariq’s, in that Horford is more valuable to the Hawks success this season than Durant is to the Sonics. There is no doubt in my mind that Durant is the better player and will be an All Star a few times over before all is said and done, but Big Al does a lot more than just score. Also, I like earning brownie points from Co Co and Cheryl.
And yes, I realize I am not orange. Don’t judge me.
Apr.9 at 8:32 am
Marijn says:
Horford, for sure.
Apr.9 at 9:04 am
hursty says:
tariq is posting again:)
@tad, whats wrong woth being gold? too good for ya?
Apr.9 at 9:05 am
hursty says:
please work 
you get the idea.
no
Apr.9 at 9:31 am
Ken says:
Horford, definitely.
Apr.9 at 9:36 am
riggs says:
Ima go with my girl Co Co and say Al, plus hes dominican so i gotta have pride also.
Apr.9 at 9:38 am
TADOne says:
I’m on a orange strike. Or at least until I can get links to work at my new workstation computer.
Apr.9 at 9:58 am
Gerard Himself says:
Horford is my pick for ROY (pretty cool clip by the way. Always like the Durant thing, but this one is dope too)
I decided that in my blog this weekend, it was hard, but somebody had to do it.
Horford will be one of the PF’s in the League, and will be that for a looooooong time.
Apr.9 at 10:07 am
iLL wiLL says:
Usually, its the guy with the highest ppg that takes the ROY. In that case, it goes to Durant.
Damn, Jukai really went off here.
KD putting up 20ppg, playing in the West, on a team where the next best player is Nick Collison, playing against double teams, guarding the opponents best wing player, playing out of position at the 2 guard, averaging better stats than Horford in all categories except for rebounds and FG%…
Apr.9 at 10:08 am
iLL wiLL says:
ATL is in the playoff race not because of Horford, but rather because of Bibby. Since Bibby came on board, the Hawks have been flying high. Pun intended.
Apr.9 at 10:48 am
Tariq says:
ill Will: Nobody is saying the Hawks are in the Playoff race because of Horford. That would be a retarded opinion. He’s CONTRIBUTING to the Hawks’ (relative) success, not carrying them. But in my opinion, a very meaningful and vital contribution to a team’s success outweighs scoring in buckets for a doormat squad. Horford is fitting in nicely with Atlanta, and doing exactly what they need him to do. That’s why he’s my ROY. But I won’t be mad if/when they give it to Kevin. Like I said, it’s pretty close anyway.
Apr.9 at 11:10 am
cdro says:
SCOLA!
Apr.9 at 11:17 am
Logan Light says:
Wow Lang… Did you actually think this forum would HELP you decide who to vote for? If I were you I’d throw the vote for DJ Strawberry just to be different!
Apr.9 at 11:44 am
Xavier Del Rosario says:
although Horford is a great player i believe Durant is the ROY because, like you said, he is leading his team in points, blocks, steals and free throws (makes and percentage). Thats got to be worth more.(even though the sonics team isnt that good anyway).
Apr.9 at 12:01 pm
Myung says:
I was at Philips Arena during the ‘07 draft, and people actually booed the pick of Horford (or only politely clapped) and cheered loudly for the pick of Acie Law (”we finally took a PG!” was the thought process). I think we as Atlanta fans had very little expectations out of big Al, and he has far exceeded anything we could’ve imagined. He is the most productive rookie we’ve had since Jason Terry, almost 10 years ago. He is unselfish, a good community guy, is a VERY gifted rebounder, a great team (glue) guy, and is one of our key building blocks. I’m so proud to have him on our team, and I rock his #15 jersey to all our home games.
Apr.9 at 12:04 pm
Myung says:
That said, Durant should get the ROY (unless they do co-ROY, which I’d be fine with). His numbers are there. Like it’s been mentioned above, Al can be the 3rd of 4th option; Durant’s been the superstar since day one. I also think team success shouldn’t be the main factor in the ROY voting (as opposed to MVP voting). Al Horford has been awesome, and I love the way he plays… but the ROY should be Kevin Durant. Like I said though, I’d be OK with a co-ROY (like when Ason and Grant shared it).
Apr.9 at 12:07 pm
Myung says:
Thanks for the mention in your article, Lang… man, were we TERRIBLE last night. Bibby’s been ice cold the past 3 games, Josh Smith lost his cool, the Hawks were ridiculously bad in the 3rd QTR, and we got embarrassed. Seems like we’ve had way too many of these type of games this season (not as much lately, thankfully). What a poor, poor effort last night.
Apr.9 at 12:25 pm
iLL wiLL says:
So it’s Durant’s fault the Sonics drafted him into a position where he has to do what he is doing now? He is contributing more to the Sonics than Horford is to the Hawks. He contributes everything to the Sonics on both ends of the floor. Horford just fits in. So because of that, he deserves the ROY? Methinks not.
Apr.9 at 12:55 pm
Jukai says:
@Tariq:
First off, his lateral quickness on D is shockingly good for a rookie that hasn’t played against NBA athletism for very long, and I’m not sure if you’ve even seen him play at this point. The PROBLEM with his defense is that he’s terrifyingly weak, and that although he can keep up with these guys, he can’t really stop them. He will NEVER be in a players face like Ron Ron or Bowen. He’s NOT Ron Ron or Bowen. Likewise, I’ve never seen Bowen or Ron Ron light it up like KD and that’s the way it is. I don’t understand how you can box out jump-shooters (and if he slaps the ball on the tip, that’s called a block or a steal, which Durant has more of over Hortford, just BTW), but he really isn’t averaging terrible rebounds for a guy who plays so far away from the basket. You seem to be describing defensive arrangements for powerforwards and centers, like Scola and Hortford. Durant should NOT need to box out a guy in the paint, when you are playing guards, you want to keep them far away from the paint and make them jump shooters. Would you rather try to shove your face in Kobe Bryant’s grill or be two steps away from him and turn him into a jump shooter? Think about it… And did you just say that former all-star and scoring title winner Tracy McGrady tore him up? wow, why couldn’t ROOKIE Durant do anything about that? The same way Hortford couldn’t stop Jeff Foster?
Apr.9 at 1:02 pm
Jukai says:
@Tariq’s second post:
iLL wiLL summed most of what I was going to say in the comment above mine, but I’ll flesh this one out a bit: *MVP and ROY are different.* MVP is MOST VALUBLE to your team, and Nash was undeniably the most valuble (one year… not two, but I digress). ROY is different… BECAUSE better players go on worse teams, you can’t judge them on success of a team. Hortford fits in nicely with Atlanta and is helps guide them to a playoff spot, but without Kevin Durant, would Seattle have won half the games they’ve played? Just because they’re one of the worst teams in the NBA, is this the blame of KD or is this the blame of the guy who got rid of Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis? MVP and ROY are NOT the same thing, purely cause of the draft system. If rookies were randomly selected to randomly go to any team, maybe I’d agree with your criteria for ROY. They don’t.
Apr.9 at 1:06 pm
Jukai says:
How many game winning or game tying shots has Hortford hit? How many times has the ball wound up in Hortford’s hands when the offense isn’t moving? How many all-stars has Hortford had to go against in his tenure in the NBA? When Dwight plays Atlanta, Zaza plays him, and I ain’t seein’ Hortford post up against Kevin Garnett recently. People usually talk about “intangibles” when a player doesn’t have the stats to back them up. How about those intangibles?
Apr.9 at 1:18 pm
Myung says:
Jukai, if you read what I wrote above, I actually have Durant as my pick for ROY as well. But to answer your question, Al Horford DOES have a lot of intangibles, and if he does win ROY, it is strictly because of those intangibles. He hustles more than any player on the Hawks and is the best rebounder we’ve had since Kevin Willis. He is our best pick setter. He can guard the opposing team’s SF, PF, or C. He has soft hands. He is a team player who is willing to play 15 minutes 1 game and 40 minutes the next or get 15 FGA’s 1 game and 3 FGA’s the next, without complaint. Enough intangibles to garner ROY? Probably not, but I’d say if you’re comparing intangibles ONLY, then Al actually brings more to the table than KD.
Apr.9 at 1:23 pm
Jukai says:
Myung, none of those responses were for you. Half of those intangibles really aren’t INCREDIBLE INTANGIBLES but things all role-players should have in the NBA. Also, rebounding isn’t an intangible.
Apr.9 at 1:25 pm
Co Co says:
Jukai you can say what you want but Durant is a one trick pony. All he does is score. If he isn’t scoring he doesnt contribute anything else to the game. At least if Al isn’t scoring he’ll still get you 10+ rebounds. Durant will probably win ROY because they already had their minds made up that he would. But let’s not act like Al isn’t deserving.
Apr.9 at 1:32 pm
RV says:
Jukai, did u skip all my posts on purpose? Horford not being able to stop Foster? Are you serious? Foster scored 0 points in the second half, his 10 pt first half was a fluke, and by the way, horford was in foul trouble so he probably wasn’t even in there for some of those points. Before you say Foster got him in foul trouble, keep in mind Al is playing center, so he’s got to take fouls for his man plus anyone driving the lane….
Apr.9 at 1:32 pm
Nick says:
Al and KD may be first and second because people already have their minds made up. But lets not act like Scola isn’t deserving…
Apr.9 at 1:33 pm
Nick says:
Scola vs. KD tonite. All will be revealed.
Apr.9 at 1:38 pm
RV says:
and like you said, this isn NOT the MVP voting, so why use “which team would be worse off without this player” criteria??? That’s exactly what would define a VALUABLE player. This is the rookie of the YEAR award. Not rookie of the month, not rookie scorer of the year, its the rookie who played the best consistently throughout the year. The teams don’t even matter, put both guys on crappy teams like Seattle and both would help the team out, but who’d hurt them less? Horford would. He’s shown to consistently play solid, he may not have 20-20 games, but he’s not likely to be shut out and not contribute. On the other hand, Durant has had his share of really poor games.
Apr.9 at 1:41 pm
RV says:
nick, durant is likely to play well today, he HAS to play well, the rockets and battier shut him out just a few days ago, he didn’t even attempt a FT, if he’s got any pride he won’t let it happen again.
Apr.9 at 1:46 pm
RV says:
And once again, not every team doubles Durant, its probably better for them not to, the last thing you want is for durant to get teammates involved, then it forces you to play man and then he’s likely to hurt you himself. He hasn’t been consistent enough all year for teams to say “oh we got to double team him or else he’s sure to go off for 25+”, some teams take the gamble since they know there’s a chance of him shooting poorly.
Apr.9 at 1:50 pm
RV says:
As for scola, Scola did start out slow, but it was more due to lack of playing time since he was fouling a lot, otherwise he did well, so both him and durant were inconsistent at some point (Horford never was), but i give the nod to scola over Durant because Scola figured things out mid season, while durant didn’t do it until this past month. That may just be due to Scola’s experience, but that’s a different argument.
Apr.9 at 1:58 pm
Myung says:
Jukai, I wasn’t trying to get into the middle of your conversation. Sorry. I simply was answering your line about intangibles. I also didn’t know you wanted to hear about “INCREDIBLE INTANGIBLES,” as opposed to, say, “regular” ones? I guess you need to educate us on what an incredible intangible is. Also, rebounding may not be an intangible, per se, if you’re a PF, but if you watch Al Horford play from game to game, he has a SKILL for rebounding (a la Chuck, Rodman) that most players in the League do not possess.
Apr.9 at 2:01 pm
Myung says:
I’d say Shane Battier is a fair comparison for Al Horford, in terms of what he brings to a team (intangible-wise). Horford has a much higher ceiling than Battier, but most of you have at least seen Battier play (and I’d assume not too many of you have watched a ton of Hawks games).
Apr.9 at 2:03 pm
iLL wiLL says:
2008 NBA Rookie of the Year….Kevin Durant!
*applause* PPG is where it matters most, really, when it comes to this ROY thing. 10 boards a game is nice, but really, it’s not an astounding accomplishment when your team lacks a big man. No, Zaza does not count. Scola was simply late in joining this ROY race.
Apr.9 at 2:04 pm
Myung says:
I still think the writers will give Durant the MVP, but I think it’s not too farfetched to have a co-ROY this time around (I’m still wondering why Melo didn’t get co-ROY in ‘03-04). Intangibles aside, Durant has better numbers than Horford (I checked and re-checked their stats)… so if it’s based STRICTLY on numbers, it should be a no brainer that Durants wins, in spite of my Hawks bias.
Apr.9 at 2:05 pm
iLL wiLL says:
Al is deserving, yes, but I would actually pick Scola over Al, even though he only started playing more in the new year. Since Scola was put in the starting lineup, the Rockets have taken off. Pun intended. Take Scola out of the equation, and the Rockets are toast. Scola has been a monster (when he’s not busy getting into foul trouble)
Apr.9 at 2:06 pm
iLL wiLL says:
Myung, it’s always about the numbers in the ROY voting.
Apr.9 at 2:13 pm
Myung says:
For the most part, yes, iLL wiLL, but not always. Glenn Robinson didn’t win ROY in ‘95 when he averaged 22 ppg and 6.4 rpg. Ason Kidd got co-ROY with averages of 11.7 ppg, 5.5 rpg, and 7.7 apg. Good numbers by Kidd, for sure, but the bigger reason he got co-ROY that year was bc Dallas went from 13 to 36 wins in his rookie year. It’s not ALWAYS about the numbers…but usually it is.
Apr.9 at 2:18 pm
Myung says:
The bigger issue (as is the case every year in the NBA) is what criteria the writers use in picking award winnders. This is especially true for the MVP award. One year, it’s the “stat” king; the next year, it’s the best player off the best team. For the ROY, like iLL wiLL said, it’s just about the numbers (mostly).
Apr.9 at 2:18 pm
RV says:
Durant may eventually get it because of the scoring, but we’re trying to help Lang with his vote, you never know, his vote may come out to be more important than we think. I expect Horford to get a good number of votes because this argument isn’t just SLAM-based. The media out there sees the same thing about Durant that some of us see. If he shot a good percentage throughout the season he’d be a lock though.
Apr.9 at 2:54 pm
RV says:
Tmac is out for tonight, so Durant should have a good game since he’ll expend less energy on D
Apr.9 at 3:31 pm
Jukai says:
I’m not going to respond too much cause no one has said anything I haven’t responded too, but RV, MVP is NOT about which player has more of an impact on their team. If Lebron James was injured, the Cavs would not win a game. Probably not ONE game. Yet, Paul or Kobe will win the MVP. This is different from ROY. Capish?
Apr.9 at 7:57 pm
RV says:
Jukai, you’re talking about who’d win more games without their “mvp”. I’m talking about the difference between having him and not having him. The cavs are barely one of the top teams in their conference, so missing lebron isn’t exactly going to drop them from #1 to last in the weak east. Lets put the cavs in the west for the sake of this argument. They would have a sub .500 record right now. the hornets would still be #1 or 2. Take Lebron away and kobe/Paul away and the cavs drop from sub .500 to almost last place, probably just ahead of Minny and Seattle. The Hornets/Lakers on the other hand? they’d drop right below .500…So who had the biggest change? Even though the cavs would win less games they wouldn’t change as much as as the lakers or hornets…
Apr.9 at 9:12 pm
LordGef says:
Durant.
Apr.9 at 9:40 pm
Double J says:
dude… it’s KEVIN DURANT. and this to ron… amare stoudemire is definately a better player than yao ming.
Apr.9 at 10:58 pm
Jukai says:
So you’re saying Hortford deserves MVP because he got placed on a team that is playoff bound, RV? Good logic.
Apr.10 at 12:22 am
RV says:
ummm…where the hell did i even get close to saying that?…first, its the ROY award Horford should get…second, i’m not even sure what else to say to you because your reply is not even in the same planet my comment was in…
Apr.10 at 2:31 am
Jukai says:
Sorry, I misread what you previously said cause I figured you were proving a point about ROY, and instead you are trying to move the arguement. You also clearly don’t watch much basketball, as you seem to think to think that Cleveland WITHOUT Lebron would be better than Seattle. You REALLY don’t like Seattle, do you? There’s either some Seattle bias here or just blatant Hawks love. Sorry, I’m not giving my vote to Hortford because his team in the EAST with JOE JOHNSON and JOSH SMITH and MIKE BIBBY is BARELY MAKING THE PLAYOFFS while Seattle isn’t making any noise. Switch their places and I’ll betcha the drop in Seattle would be lower than the drop in the Hawks. Because I’m not following that logic, I have to place Durants SUPERIOR stats compared to Hortford’s questionable intangibles. Durants skills win. I think the media actually doesn’t agree though, which is ridiculous.
Apr.10 at 2:32 am
Jukai says:
And why is Durant a one trick pony while Hortford isn’t? All Hortford does is rebound. Bloke scores in some games but rarely gets passed ten. Unacceptable.
Apr.10 at 5:29 am
Petter says:
Luis Scola. He is making everyone in Clutch City forget Yao Ming… Almost.
Apr.10 at 11:04 am
Ken H. says:
its like when lebron won over melo, when melo took his team to the playoffs. I always thought melo should have won, same way i think horford should win this year.
Apr.10 at 12:16 pm
RV says:
did u forget cleveland has wally szcerbiak (who on his own would avg 20 ppg if he jacked up 20 shots per game also), plus ben wallace, plus Zydrunas, plus joe smith, plus delonte…i’m not sure what you’re on that makes you believe that team isn’t better than watson, durant, green, collison, and petro/elson…i think you’d have a tough time finding someone who’d agree with you (besides Seattle fans)…and no i dont have a problem with the sonics, don’t play the bias card just because you can’t make a valid point…
Apr.10 at 12:21 pm
RV says:
and you also continue to confuse my posts with other posts on here since i’ve never mentioned playoff position or team record as a reason why horford should get ROY over Durant. The only thing i’ve said about their teams is horford’s teammates put up a lot of shots durant’s teammates aren’t that good..
Apr.10 at 12:40 pm
Jukai says:
So then what IS your reasoning? If not for the record and winning team, what possible reason could you have for putting Hortford as your ROY? He’s been consistently mediocre with the stats to prove it. I just don’t get it. Also, every game Cleveland has played without Lebron has been met with disaster. After the trade, they are WORSE. So, if the club is 0-6 (actually 0-8 since the two games Lebron threw out his back and couldn’t score, no one else scored and they lost too) with better players, what makes you think the club would be any better with worse players? Durant is FAR better than Szcerbiak already, Ben Wallace misses more open dunks than any other player in existance, Zydrunas can’t make shots if they aren’t created for him and c’mon… Joe Smith? Durant and Green alone are better than all those guys mentioned. Most of Cleveland only look like they are decent players because of Lebron. Their total scoring takes almost a 20 point dive when Lebron is out! Trust me, Cleveland is my second favorite team so I’ve watched all their games. They would be the second worst (Miami being the worst) team in the league of Lebron was out for the season with injury. No doubt in my mind.
Apr.10 at 1:22 pm
niQ says:
200 years is a long time.. i’d go for with horford, but something tells me durant is gona win it just because of his scoring.
Apr.10 at 2:07 pm
Paniscus says:
gotta be Al. IMHO, the award is for THIS year, not future performance. Durant might be the future MVP or whatever, but this year belongs to Al. (And that isn’t to suggest that Horford won’t be money in the future… you know what I mean)
Apr.10 at 7:12 pm
Jukai says:
Paniscus, describe to me what Hortford does better than Durant besides rebounding. And don’t say intangibles. I’d say scoring/passing/playing pass lanes/winning games with three pointers/hitting free throws are more impotant than intangibles.
Apr.10 at 9:06 pm
RV says:
Joe smith has been more than decent this year, you must not have caught any Bulls’ games this season…, and you’re taking things way too literally, not having lebron for a few games a season results in different play than if the team had time to prepare, get a rotation going, practiced without him and then played the season without him. I’m rockets’ fan, so i know all about playing without injured stars…
Apr.10 at 9:22 pm
RV says:
Jukai, my point is about consistency, and averaging a damn near double-double is NOT mediocre. The greatest thing about a rookie is not playing like one, coming in and being consistent, performing at a high level and bringing it every night, not hitting a rookie wall, Horford had all that. Durant had the some great highs, but also had a good number of lows. Yearly awards aren’t about spurts or certain periods, its about the whole year. Adelman won’t get the coach of the year award because the rockets had a blazing start, then they sunk, but then had a historic run and finished strong…the winner will have been consistent, like Byron Scott or Doc.
Apr.11 at 3:44 am
Jukai says:
Averaging ten points is mediocre, RV. Rebounds is one thing, but ten points a game while playing 70% of a game isn’t that impressive for an NBA player. And I just don’t like the consistency theory… When Durant does bad, he scores 10 points and 2 rebounds. When Durant does great, he scores 37 points and 9 rebounds… Gee, I’m looking at Horford’s game-by-game stats and I just don’t see the consistency everyone else sees. Rebounds are good but seem to be getting weaker, and his shooting percentage is pretty shaky. Sure, he’s no where near Durant’s level of crappiness, but with all of Horford’s 70% shooting, he has a 2-7 night, a 1-5 night, a 4-10 night, it’s all sandwhiched in there. The difference is that when Horford shoots bad, I see that he takes drastically less shots, and that’s because there’s Joe Johnson and Josh Smith there to take shots for him. When Durant’s shot is off, who is going to shoot… Donyell Marshall? I don’t believe so.
Apr.11 at 3:50 am
Jukai says:
I mean, since literally every media figure disagrees with me, I must be wrong here. Still, I just don’t get why a player who is consistently mediocre gets the nod over a player, who while he has had his low points, has enough high points to average incredible stats (20 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists and a steal). Maybe it’s me. I don’t know. I like Dirk so what do I know.
Apr.11 at 12:01 pm
RV says:
I still don’t see how u can call it mediocre, very few guys average a double double and 10 pts isn’t bad when you’re not even the 4th scoring option, 2 assists is not an incredible stat, 4 boards is right for a guy his height, not incredible either. The reason why i dwell on the consistency is because they seem to cancel out, both have one great stat and then a decent one (ppg/stls and ppg/rebs), their other stats aren’t too impressive, so consistency is the difference, but this is getting pointless now, Lang is the one with the vote, has he decided yet?