Supermann Dat Tuesday!!!
You Want To Know Who I Support? Fine I’ll Tell You
By Khalid Salaam
I have a love/hate relationship with politics. Always have. But that doesn’t meant I’m indifferent to voting or to paying attention to what happens. I have a love/hate relationship with the media as well but obviously that hasn’t stopped me from working in this field. Because just like the media, politics and the policies brought forth by the people we elect still have an enormous effect on my life. Just because you’re not on the train doesn’t mean it’s not taking off from the station. And Tuesday Feb 5th is the next scheduled departure.
Before I announce whom I’m supporting I should tell you guys that I was down with Bill Richardson pretty strongly. I just felt that on paper he had the strongest credentials. But for whatever reason people just didn’t respond to him, he never was a media darling or a Democratic Party favorite. He was always one of the “oh yeah I forgot about him” candidates with Joe Biden and Chris Dodd. On the day he dropped out Richardson appeared on MSNBC and thought that one of the reasons voters shunned him was that people lumped him in with the old guard Washington set and since change is such a big deal this year, anything that seems old is a bad look.
After Richardson left I spent several days thinking about each candidate and their pros and cons. Same stuff you’ve heard a hundred times but I wanted to really think about it. Just really get into it and see how I felt. The stakes are high this year but don’t believe the BS they tell you on the news and in the papers and mags. The stakes are always high. They tell you this is the biggest election in our generation but every election is important. The only difference is people actually realize it this time and are amped to do something about it. After Bush people are super-nervous and want to do the right thing. The war, economy, health care, immigration, security, energy crisis, etc. There are so many important issues. People are focused this year. That’s why it’s been so competitive, that’s why it’s the dominant news story of every day and will be until November.
So yeah I’m going for Obama. Some of you who don’t know me will think that this was an obvious decision for me. Trust me it wasn’t. I’ve had many a convo discussing this topic and I’ve never been among the consensus. I just think that Obama’s health and economic plan and his focus on unity is something intriguing. There have been many articles about what your decision says about you in regards to Clinton and Obama. Barack appeals to the dreamers, the people who hope for things unseen. Clinton appeals to the realists, the people who trust applied and successful methods of doing things. I’ve more of a realist, I believe in mathematics and science. That dreaming is for people who don’t want to take the responsibility of doing the hard, scary things that have to be done sometimes in order to change the world or your life. But I’m also a dreamer and have imagined and assumed things based upon my belief system and a belief that there are some things preordained to occur. I’m both. And I get the sense that Hil is not. The pragmatic stuff I get but sometimes you have to look beyond what’s in front of you. I know that Obama isn’t exactly what I want but he has enough of what I value that I will sign-up. Funny thing is if the Republican nominee is McCain and he wins its not the end of the world. As far as the GOP candidates, he’s the one who is the least scary. Romney is a corporate thug and I don’t want someone like that in office. He’s the type of dude who announces firings the week before Christmas. He’s all about the bottom line and will defer to money and finance over anything else. Damn that. McCain has his own mind at least. I mean yes, he’s old as a mf and he’s pro staying in Iraq but he is also smart and experienced. And he’s not a punk, he bucks the republican base all the time. He’s the best candidate that side has had that I can remember.
I’m not anti Hilary either. Or Bill for that matters. All the so-called racist stuff that was circulating around a few weeks ago only seems so crazy because we’ve never experienced a race with a Black man in it. It’s all new to us. If she/they won I would be okay with that too. So tomorrow I’m going for Obama. Him winning opens up the door for people like myself, his “militant-sounding” name gives me hope that I can run for office. Thats a joke but i’m saying..it would change things. My columns on the prez race will be a reoccurring theme especially after tomorrow when we’ll have a better idea of how real this thing can get. But if Eli can win the MVP then maybe this is one of those years where the impossible happens. Let’s get it.
245 Responses to “Supermann Dat Tuesday!!!”
Feb.4 at 3:36 pm
Myles Brown says:
Obama was here this weekend. The line stretched twenty blocks away from the Target Center. People love that dude. As do I. And I am a staunch Hillary Hater. She could ticket up with Jesus and still not get my vote.
Feb.4 at 3:38 pm
tenorca says:
Obama to Hillary: “You can’t guard me.”
Feb.4 at 3:44 pm
linda says:
Will McCain Make a POW out of the USA? How many more men and women will McCain sacrifice in Iraq to preserve George Bush’s War Legacy? Will McCain surrender our borders to Mexico through his Open Border Amnesty philosophy? Will McCain surrender your wallet to special interest groups and entitlements for illegal aliens? Will McCain surrender Pro-Life views with liberals and partial birth abortions? Will you surrender your vote for McCain on Super Tuesday?
Feb.4 at 3:47 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
My sister graduated from Wellesley, Hillary Clinton’s alma mater. She heard Hillary speak there, possibly even on more than one occasion, back when she was first lady. Liked and respected what she had to say. Like me, my sister voted for Bill Clinton. And, like me, she’s voting for Barack Obama tomorrow.
Feb.4 at 3:47 pm
Ryan Jones says:
I knew you’d come around, Khalid. And word to people with militant names. You think it’s easy living in rural Pennsylvania with a name like “Ryan Jones”? I mean, it is, but still. You get my point.
Feb.4 at 3:48 pm
Ben Osborne says:
Great stuff, Khalid. I’m with Obama, too. I also think it’s funny that you spelled Supermann the Eli way.
Feb.4 at 3:51 pm
white hot eboy says:
I voted down here last week even though our results held no weight (why would that be surprising in Flori-durh). I voted for Obama, my wife, of course, for Hillary. She really has idea on either of their platforms, but a vote for a woman is a vote for a woman I suppose. When I got home that night after we had dinner, I said to myself, “why did I go with Obama”. Sure, he’s a male, charasmatic, beloved (as Myles pointed out) and seems to be more equipped to deal with “the hared issues” emotionally and politically. But then i thought, “really, what the fu*k is he standing for, besides CHANGE?” Change is great if it’s better than the current political enviornment. Can it get much worse? Hell no. But is there a chance for the country to rebound and actually have it’s people believe in something great. Hell yeah! Mr. Obama, if you get the nod, spend the rest of the year telling us, the people, what exactly you are going do to CHANGE our country? Tell it to us like we are 5 year olds. The current regime runs the government in that same matter currently, so bring the IQ level a tad, pretty please? Make me believe in my vote. Make us ALL believe in our votes.
Feb.4 at 3:58 pm
H to the izzo says:
Apparently people think that Obama has that JFK charisma,hopefully if he gets in he’ll be a better president.
Feb.4 at 4:04 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
damn izzo. jfk got the civil rights act in motion.
Feb.4 at 4:05 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
When Hillary Clinton broke into tears over the possibilty that she might not win, that’s when she totally lost me. That’s the way a race works–someone wins, someone loses. And I don’t believe the country is necessarily doomed if Hillary doesn’t win, just as I don’t believe the country is necessarily saved if she does. She seems to think that she absolutely HAS to be President because she’s worked so hard and wanted it so badly. That, to me, shows how out of touch she is with the way things work in this country, and the rest of the world for that matter. Life is often about wanting something, working hard for it, and NOT getting it. Then figuring out what to do next. She’s running for the highest office in the land and acting like an eight-year-old who might not get what she wants for her birthday.
Feb.4 at 4:05 pm
white hot eboy says:
“hard issues”
Feb.4 at 4:07 pm
H to the izzo says:
Khalid:He also got Vietnam in motion,not saying he was a terrible president,just kind of over-rated and looked upon with rose tinted glasses.There have been plenty better than him.(and also some a lot worse)
Feb.4 at 4:09 pm
white hot eboy says:
Izzo, curious to hear who you think were better?
Feb.4 at 4:12 pm
Myles Brown says:
I just love how Hillary tries to pretend that shes an independent woman, who’s “experience” just happens to be being the Presidents wife. She tries to beat Obama over the head with that “experience” but whenever she’s challenged about her missteps-especially-the Iraq War, she acts as though they were honest mistakes. Shouldnt her “experience” have led her to make a more sound decision? Like Obama did? And way to sick your husband on him as though you can muster any sort of plausible deniability. Is she really trying to say she doesnt know what he does? That she couldnt make him stop? The Clintons are almost as bad as the Bushes to me.
Feb.4 at 4:13 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
In his defense, Kennedy was only President for three years. It’s hard to judge any President based on less than a full term. I don’t think you’d find many people who wound up preferring Lyndon Johnson. And besides civil rights, didn’t he also trigger the space program?
Feb.4 at 4:14 pm
Myles Brown says:
And that whole MLK/LBJ thing was absolute bullsh*t. She wasn’t a Johnson supporter, she writes in her own memoirs about how she was a rabid Goldwater girl. When she opens her mouth wide enough you can see her forked tongue.
Feb.4 at 4:16 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
fdr and teddy r…. goat
Feb.4 at 4:16 pm
H to the izzo says:
Eboy:I think Johnson was a much better president,though Vietnam overshadowed and pretty much ruined his legacy.He was the one who passed the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act,he had the ability to get laws passed that Kennedy didn’t.He introduced the Great Society program,Medicaid,Medicare both pretty good things I’m sure you’ll agree.Would have been remembered as one of the greats if it wasn’t for that pesky war which he wanted very little to do with.
Feb.4 at 4:18 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
yeah russ jfk was that dude. i think we look at him with rose colored glasses is b/c he was murdered. but he was effective. cuban missle crisis anyone?
Feb.4 at 4:21 pm
white hot eboy says:
Good points, Izzo, I like Khalid’s picks as well.
Feb.4 at 4:21 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
btw ryan i don’t think my name would be appreciated in rural pennsylvania. i sometimes get looks from new yorkers….izzo, yeah lbj passed it through but because of the assassination america wanted to honor jfk’s legacy. not saying just anyone could have passed it but it was inevitable.
Feb.4 at 4:21 pm
H to the izzo says:
And JFK was pretty slow to act on civil rights.
Feb.4 at 4:24 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
EVERYONE was slow to act on civil rights. At least he acted, though. Basically you can put the “slow to act on civil rights” tag on every president from, hm, George Washington on forward.
Feb.4 at 4:24 pm
H to the izzo says:
But Khalid,my point was that JFK had a history of failing to get policies passed through Congress,he failed to get public works programs and healthcare programs passed and may not have gotten the civil rights-which the conservatives really fought passed.Though I agree,those policies were pretty inevitable.
Feb.4 at 4:26 pm
Rasheedionics says:
Let’s be real. Next presidency job is like wanted ad for next Knick’s coach. Yea, it’s a cool job but do real candidate want to deal with the mess Isiah would be leaving after him. The real candidate is thinking let some newbie - up and coming - just trying to put my name on the map - type of candidate (Obama, Clinton, Romney) take the job; or some old man who only have couple years to live (McCain). The only reason the likes of Obama and Clinton are in the race because the real qualified candidates are going to chill in the cut and apply for the job after the mess been somewhat cleared up and they can start building the championship contender… Right now the country is in the mess and the Phil Jacksons and Pat Rileys of political world wouldn’t want this job even if it was just given to them. It’s not a coincidence that a woman, a black man and some old military fart are top 3 candidates this year. At no other point in the history of this country something like this would ever happened or would be allowed (for those conspiracy theorists out there). Yes, thats how bad Bush (Isiah Thomas) has been… Don’t get me wrong, I love Obama and Hilarry and even McCain but none of them are good enough to make a real change in this country. They’re just there to keep the seat warm, wait til Lebron or Kobe (war and economy) mature and establish themselves and then in 4 years we will see someone who can really do the job emerge.
Feb.4 at 4:29 pm
hursty says:
ha! medicare. aus has had that for decades longer. its still important that either obama or hillary wins. no-one else.
Feb.4 at 4:31 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Rasheedionics: Please list the “real qualified candidates.”
Feb.4 at 4:31 pm
Homie says:
Russ: re “Life is often about wanting something, working hard for it, and NOT getting it.” I agree 100%, but we have a whole generation hearing from their ‘role models’ that “If you want anything bad enough, all you have to do is try your hardest and you’ll get it.” Me, I blame American Idol…but seriously you and I may know that’s the way the world works, but there are a lot of folks out there who think otherwise. Exibit A: The Secret!
Feb.4 at 4:31 pm
Slick Nick Da Ruler says:
Nice post Khalid. Bill is my governor here in NM, and I was pissed he dropped out. I truly believe the litmus test for presidential hopefuls is their ability to charm/scare young children. Bill looked like he always wants to eat small children, therefore voters subconsciously don’t look at his experience, credentials, etc. His physical appearance alone limits his voter recognition. I would like to have seen him in the Feb 5 elections.
Feb.4 at 4:32 pm
Slick Nick Da Ruler says:
Also, John Edwards and HIllary have the same haircut. Is that weird to anyone else?
Feb.4 at 4:32 pm
Homie says:
‘Exhibit’…oops.
Feb.4 at 4:34 pm
Slick Nick Da Ruler says:
Khalid, do you think Obama sounds anything like The Rock. Barack needs the People’s Elbow tomorrow, Eboy knows what Im talking about. Nice Ultimate Warrior post earlier Eboy.
Feb.4 at 4:38 pm
maio says:
Hillary just wants to get back at Bill in the Oral Office. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if that was all she’s really about.
Feb.4 at 4:38 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
I hate to think that physical appearance plays that big of a role nick. it can’t be a factor can it? maybe i’m in denial but i don’t know. does anyone else think that?
Feb.4 at 4:41 pm
white hot eboy says:
If Barack could look into a camera at one of the big debates and give the Peoples Eyebrow and say in a low tone “if you smell…. what Barack…. is cooking” I think he takes the title even if they dig up JFK AND George Washington.
Feb.4 at 4:42 pm
Myles Brown says:
Nixon v. Kennedy?
Feb.4 at 4:42 pm
white hot eboy says:
Obama’s physical appearance is what has people lining up around the Target Center, Khalid.
Feb.4 at 4:43 pm
white hot eboy says:
Female’s especially.
Feb.4 at 4:45 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
If I had to marry a current major-party Presidential candidate I’d pick John McCain.
Feb.4 at 4:46 pm
Ron says:
Obama has the voice of The Rock, the rhetoric of Dr. King and Utopian view of JFK. He is the peoples’ champ and the people seem to be moving in his direction. I just don’t think has has what it take to be the number one. He can fire up a crowd of Americans, but can he REALLY lead our nation? I’m not so sure at this point.
Feb.4 at 4:46 pm
floe says:
Gobama!
Feb.4 at 4:46 pm
H to the izzo says:
USELESS INFORMATION ALERT:George Washington wasn’t your country’s first president,he was the first president post civil war,but before that there were joint congress “presidents” though they were not called that,I can’t remember what they were called.Also Reagan vs The Devil?
Feb.4 at 4:50 pm
peteb80 says:
Sadly, from everything I know about the USA (from an outsider’s perspective), there’s no way you will have a black president (especially with a name like that) any time soon. But please go ahead and surprise me.
Feb.4 at 4:51 pm
H to the izzo says:
Maybe if he changed it from “Obama” to “O’Bama” he’d have more success.
Feb.4 at 4:52 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
izzo: I think you mean Revolutionary War. Either that, or my knowledge of American history is reall, REALLY f*cked up.
Feb.4 at 4:54 pm
H to the izzo says:
Russ:You are correct,I’m an idiot with too many wars to remember.
Feb.4 at 4:55 pm
lane says:
look at all the soclialists uniting at slamonline - Nanny state here we come.
Feb.4 at 4:57 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
izzo, lol pete80, trust me that has been a point of emphasis in my discussions. poll numbers are 1 thing but actually electing a black man seems far-fetched. we’ve only had 2 black governors in the history of the nation. there are parts of the country where almost everyone is white (what up ryan) and people have limited knowledge of different races. they only know basic stuff and whatever the media tells them. think about it. the entire upper midwest, the pacific northwest and the plains states. its gonna be hard. and what about the rural south? geez can you really see it? the thing is, the other options are just as crazy. if i had money on this thing i would say mccain winning the whole thing. lets be serious. this is my realist perspective but i’m willing to dream….
Feb.4 at 4:57 pm
Ryan Jones says:
Izzo, please stay the f*ck away from our history books and go back to your whiskey, you sorry Irish drunk.
Feb.4 at 4:58 pm
Ryan Jones says:
lane! It’s good to see you. Add something to the conversation, won’t you? Ideally something you didn’t cut and paste from Coulter’s latest column.
Feb.4 at 4:58 pm
peteb80 says:
Seriously Izzo, Barry H. O’Bama would mean something like +2%.
Feb.4 at 5:01 pm
H to the izzo says:
Ryan:According to the latest American history books Dubya’s first term in office was:”The rootin’-ist tootin’ist four years of presidentness that this here country ever did see,yee-haw,yee-haw”.
Feb.4 at 5:01 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
And Hillary Clinton would have a far better chance of being elected if her name was Hillary Smith. OH WELL.
Feb.4 at 5:02 pm
Cub Buenning says:
Well put, professor…
Feb.4 at 5:02 pm
H to the izzo says:
Coulter can f*ck right off,pointy b*tch.Sorry
Feb.4 at 5:02 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Shaquille O’Neal should run as a third-party candidate. Are there any Kennedys out there who haven’t publically endorsed anybody yet?
Feb.4 at 5:05 pm
Ryan Jones says:
Izzo is now allowed to comment on American politics again.
Feb.4 at 5:06 pm
Ryan Jones says:
And Russ, to your question: I believe former MTV VJ Kennedy has endorsed Dan Cortese.
Feb.4 at 5:10 pm
Captain America says:
I’m a corporate thug too and we support one another, losers.
Feb.4 at 5:11 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
If Obama does get the nomination, he should hire Wieden&Kennedy to do all his campaign ads. Two words: Li’l Obama. Only then he might have to pick the Mariner Moose as a running mate, and as we all know, that moose could be a liability.
Feb.4 at 5:11 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
I KNOW MY SHOT, FOOL!
Feb.4 at 5:17 pm
Ryan Jones says:
I just peed in my pants, Russ. Well played.
Feb.4 at 5:18 pm
lane says:
I don’t listen to Ann Coulter Ryan - She is as much a loon as Hillary is. Look it all depends on what you believe. Do you believe in the consitution or do you believe that the government owes you certain things? I don’t think the government owes me anything - I don’t want to be in Iraq any longer, but I understand that this war will eventually reach our shores again when we do leave. I don’t believe in entitlements, I think the government spends too much (welfare, social security, defense) and they tax too much. I think Hillary and Obama are crazy with their wealth distribution plans and I think corporations and now countries (thanks to all the government backed bail outs of financial institutions) run the country anyway. Everyone you vote for — Obama, Romney, McCain Hillary — are all bought and paid for already. They owe people and will preside accordingly. There is only one conservative left - Romney… McCain and Huckabee are liberals at heart. I am half hoping that Bloomberg throws his hat in the ring as expected. Then there is always Ron Paul — the man of the Constitution. Anyway - I am not one for giving away US sovereignty for mirages l ike global warming — I dont want the American Union or the Sea Treaty. I hate the UN.
Feb.4 at 5:21 pm
Slick Nick Da Ruler says:
Weiden & Kennedy would be nice for Obama. @ Khalid: Physical appearance always plays a huge part in star making ability (look at the NBA). Eboy: I walk around making fake Barak/The Rock quotes during every debate! Your quote is my tried and true favorite
Feb.4 at 5:23 pm
Ryan Jones says:
Khalid, this just in. It is a real press release. I am not making it up:
—
Black Conservatives Rally to Urge Mike Huckabee to Stay in Presidential Race
PRESS CONFERENCE
Monday, February 4, 2008
9:45 AM
National Press Club
529 14th Street NW, DC
(DC) – A broad coalition of black conservatives from across the country are holding a press conference to urge former Governor Mike Huckabee to stay in the presidential race for the Republican nomination until the Convention.
“Governor Huckabee should not be intimidated to stop his bid for the republican nomination,” states Don Scoggins, veteran GOP activist and among other conservatives hosting the press conference. “The momentum of the grassroots that propelled this party into victory is behind Mike and will not stop fighting for him regardless of his bank account,” also states Scoggins, president of Republicans for Black Empowerment, a DC based national grassroots organization.
The concern of the group is the pressure that is mounting by republican talking heads to push governor Huckabee out of the race. The consensus is that Huckabee’s campaign was deliberately sabotaged by Fred Thompson in South Carolina to hone out a two man race between McCain and Romney in Florida. Polls still show Huckabee leading in many southern states, and competitive in others even with limited resources. “Inside-the-beltway Republicans have lost touch with the increasing seriousness with which heartland conservatives relate to the traditional values agenda,” states Star Parker, a nationally syndicated columnist and conservative activist. “More and more folks are feeling personally assaulted by the meaninglessness that is gripping our culture and believe that Mike Huckabee is the only republican candidate that embodies the moral clarity of the GOP ideals. The groundswell generating support for Huckabee’s candidacy understand that moral and economic health go hand in hand and should not be underestimated.”
Numerous African American conservatives, many also veteran Republican Party activists, are scheduled to speak at the one hour press conference.
When: Monday, February 4, 2008 – 9:45 AM
Where: National Press Club (Murrow Room)
Who: Black Conservatives for Mike Huckabee
Feb.4 at 5:24 pm
H to the izzo says:
Lane:I agree,when will these poor people learn that they’re just not welcome.
Feb.4 at 5:25 pm
white hot eboy says:
slits wrist, waits for blood to drain, blood pooling on keyboard currently
Feb.4 at 5:27 pm
Ryan Jones says:
Thank you, lane. I appreciate your fears/concerns, as well as your perspective on Ms. Coulter. Of course they’re all bought and paid for. That’s the system we got, so you look for the least-offensive option. And I would vote for Bloomberg in a second. Just two questions then:
1. What about Romney’s record as Gov. of Mass makes you think he’s a conservative?
2. Why is it that conservatives who are hawkish and pro-business, both of which you seem to be, keep calling global warming a mirage and resist doing anything about it, when part of doing something about it would mean energy independence (and fewer people in the Middle East and elsewhere who have reason to want us dead) and the chance for gazillions of dollars in new industry, which would seem right up the average venture capitalist’s alley?
Seriously, I’m wondering. Please let me know.
Feb.4 at 5:28 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Please tell me how we could EVER fully withdraw from Iraq without ever facing possible repercussions on our own shores. Right now Iraq is a black hole, greedily sucking down billions of dollars that we don’t have as our own citizens grow poorer and poorer. And with every civilian we kill over there–accidentally or now–and with every home or business we destroy, we create more and more would-be terrorists, and even better, give them every reason to hate America. And for what? Democracy? Right, as long as they elect a party and leader who agrees with us. Is that really democracy? Iraq is about maintaining our current way of life, which is going to fall apart sooner rather than later no matter what. It’s all an illusion, and soon enough it will all come crashing down. No matter who’s in charge.
Feb.4 at 5:29 pm
Ryan Jones says:
In fairness, you’ve clearly got a strong libertarian streak that I should’ve acknowledged, and should’ve tweaked Question 2 accordingly. That said, both questions remain valid.
Feb.4 at 5:30 pm
H to the izzo says:
Lane:I wonder(though I already know) what’s your position in immigrants?
Feb.4 at 5:30 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
And, I’m sorry, if you’re a Black conservative, and your best hope is Mike f*cking Huckabee, wouldn’t you start questioning your political views just a little bit? That’s the guy who would best represent you in the highest office of the land? Sheesh. What would Charles Barkley do?
Feb.4 at 5:30 pm
Captain America says:
Is the MLK dream still alive? “I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” v. vote for a man because of his skin color?
Feb.4 at 5:32 pm
H to the izzo says:
position on*
America is pretty much a totalitarian democracy,a statement which really makes my head hurt.
Feb.4 at 5:35 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Not sure what you’re getting at CA, but it’s safe to say that there are for more people that WOULDN’T vote for Obama just because he’s Black then there are people who WOULD vote for him just because he’s Black. Although, given the current state of the world, I actually feel that race IS an important factor at this moment in history. And isn’t it time for a change? If you could assemble all of the ex-Presidents in one room for a group photo, it would look like a reunion of the Harvard class of 1935.
Feb.4 at 5:35 pm
Ryan Jones says:
White people have been voting for almost nothing but white people for hundreds of years, Cap’n. Do you begrudge black people — many of whom are only 2 or 3 generations removed fom real, actual slavery in their own family tree — voting for a black dude because they can?
Feb.4 at 5:38 pm
H to the izzo says:
Vote for Change=Concentrate on my novelty while I try and come up with something good.
Feb.4 at 5:39 pm
lane says:
alright Ryan - Having said all I said - I would vote for Bloomberg - (his absolute Gun control aside -although I can’t imagine he would push that agenda on a national level.)
question #1. What about Romney’s record as Gov. of Mass makes you think he’s a conservative? I assume you are referring to his stance on abortion / gay marraige while a governor. Like I said - he is the only one conservative left and that might be just in image. He said he changed his mind - he had an “epiphany” — for me that causes me to pause. Aboriton is a pretty rock solid issue - I mean I can’t think of anything that would make me change my mind on abortion. Which leads one to think - Does dude change his mind when it suits him ? WHo can say. by conservative - I meant that is what he is projecting… invoking the name of Ronald Reagan…. Question #2. Why is it that conservatives who are hawkish and pro-business, both of which you seem to be, keep calling global warming a mirage and resist doing anything about it, when part of doing something about it would mean energy independence (and fewer people in the Middle East and elsewhere who have reason to want us dead) and the chance for gazillions of dollars in new industry, which would seem right up the average venture capitalist’s alley?
Seriously, I’m wondering. Please let me know. Okay — I am conservative and pro-capitalist. I believe the market, given the opportunity will evolve and discover new means to become energy efficient or advance technology to help the planet etc - free us from our oil need. The small business owner ,etc. I take issue with big business — like say GE — who owns NBC — a station that blatantly promoted global warming for its own cause. GE has billions inested in alternrate energy sources and wants to push it now.. NOW NOW>.. if you ask me — I say we go ahead and drill here in the US in a safe manner and become oil independent while still advancing technology to more enviromentally friendly means of energy. I mean - how is it that people whine about the environment here and in Alaska worried about the animals or trees but have no concern for the same in other countries that produce oil? How is it these same folks drive a car ? Shouldn’t they be on foot or on a bike ,..maybe a skateboard ?
Feb.4 at 5:42 pm
Allenp says:
Good look Ryan on your response to Captain, but it’s really insulting to assume that black people can only support Obama because he’s black. Are black people supposed to be so stupid that we can’t read and discover the issues like everyone else? Did we blindly support Al Sharpton because he was black? It’s asinine to assume that color doesn’t play a role in people’s political choices, but that’s in everybody’s political choices. It’s pretty insulting that black people are being told that they are the only ones dumb enough to actually consider a candidate’s race.
Feb.4 at 5:47 pm
Tariq says:
Maybe Noam Chomsky has turned me into a jaded cynic, but I really don’t think it makes a difference who becomes president, especially concerning foreign policy. I like Obama’s personality, but the president can only do so much. The president is more like a cog in a machine than a real difference maker. I’m sure people will argue that Dubya and Cheney have screwed things up beyond recognition. But while that’s true, American foreign policy has been essentially the same…from Iraq going back to Lebanon, Nicaragua, Vietnam…way back to the Phillipines at the turn of the century. Not to mention unwavering support for Israel, vetoing unanimous UN resoulutions for no good reason. It’s all special interest groups and campaign funding with strings attached. Like Clay Davis said: “Sheeeeet…I’ll take any n*gga’s money if he GIVIN it away!”
Feb.4 at 5:48 pm
lane says:
p.s. — who said poor people were not welcome ? Go look in the paper right now… look in the want ads and see how many jobs are available in your area. I am not supporting anything similar to class warfare. Be serious - the middle class has fallen by about 10% — but the upper class has grown by almost 11% - so people were getting richer.
Feb.4 at 5:49 pm
Ryan Jones says:
Appreciate the responses, Lane. I believe you give the market WAY too much credit, and maybe that’s the biggest difference between an intelligent liberal and an intelligent conservative — as opposed to the fear-mongering, racism, xenophobia etc Coulter & Co push — but at least your perspective is thought out.
And for the record, I’ve been walking to work for the past nine years.
Feb.4 at 5:50 pm
lane says:
word to Tariq - Dubya takes all the blame - but he is just the face on the machine - the senate - the house - and those “unseen” lobbyists and special interest groups with pockets full of gold are turning the keys — essentially GREED. I mean you think Enron, MCI etc scandals all happened after Dubya took office ? heck no - they were going on on while willie was getting his willy wet in the oval office with a fat intern.
Feb.4 at 5:51 pm
Ryan Jones says:
And boy, are my legs tired! Thank you, I’ll be here for another 10 minutes.
Tariq: Chomsky should make you cynical, and no candidate who could ever actually get elected will change the fact that Big Pharma and Big Oil run the show. Hence, we vote for the guy who seems like he might change things at least a little, at least on the surface, and we hope for the best. At least that’s what I do.
Feb.4 at 5:52 pm
lane says:
Ryan - to me the market has always worked itself out. Poeple have always come up with a new idea. Used to be that you had to get a broker make a trade on the Street - now you can do it at E-trade for $9.00 — the market dictated that. There are a lot of examples. America was once a great nation that produced - created — led in industry, banking - technology — and now — well now we just consume. We need to get back to producing.
Feb.4 at 5:53 pm
H to the izzo says:
Lane:Could you explain to me how Global Warming is a mirage please and why is it that so much proof is needed on things like Global Warming and proof is optional for starting a war?
Feb.4 at 5:54 pm
lane says:
what is Obama gonna change ? All he talks about is change — tell me how… tell me what. HE is the Toyota Prius of candidates - the cool thing to do is vote for Obama. At least with Hillary -you know what she wants and what she will do. She wants to raise the hammer and sickle above the white house. What the heck does Obama want ? what is this change he talks about ? Change what ? Change how ? I change my drawers every day — is that what he means ? I don’t know — someone tell me.
Feb.4 at 5:57 pm
Tariq says:
Ryan: Your approach seems like the way to go. It just annoys me when some of my friends seem wide-eyed and caught up in all the hype. Recognize the reality of the situation.
Feb.4 at 5:59 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
“The market has always worked itself out.” I’m sure they were saying that in 1928, too. I fear a lot of people out there–present company included–are going to get punched in the face by reality in a way that would make a Charles Oakley right feel like a love tap.
Feb.4 at 6:01 pm
lane says:
H - lets back track here. Define global warming ? if you are saying global warming means the earth has been getting warmer - then yes -I agree — what is it something like .008 degrees warmer in the past 30 years? Back in the 70’s we were told to prepare for another ice age.
If you are saying we (humans) caused global warming then I would say you prove it to me.I mean what happened to “the worst hurricane season ever ?” — oh yeah there was like 1 hurricane. I think the Earth goes through cycles — they used to call it Mother Nature - gets cold - it gets warm — Mother NAture. Then they renamed it global warming to make money and blamed it on the humans. I don’t believe it. I still buy the cyclical changes.
Feb.4 at 6:01 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
So a Prius is bad? Right! By all means, let’s put yet another Escalade in office for eight more years! I’m leaving this thread before I start slamming my head on the floor.
Feb.4 at 6:03 pm
Allenp says:
So, Obama is all vague hope and change? Have people actually checked out his plans on his website, or even listened to him during debates. He’s explained his plan to extend healthcare and make it more affordable. He’s discussed his ideas on getting out of Iraq and improving foreign relations. He’s discussed every major democratic issue, and all you hear is that he’s too vague.
Feb.4 at 6:04 pm
lane says:
I didn;t say a Prius was bad dude — I said tell me what he is going to change — how ? What? out of all that you take the PRius comment and bang your liberal head on the floor — mama did too much of that when you were younger and that is how you ended up being a liberal - save those brain cells Ryan.
Feb.4 at 6:04 pm
lane says:
er Russ — sorry
Feb.4 at 6:05 pm
H to the izzo says:
Note:Global Warming does not actually mean that the earth is getting warmer,the proper term would be climate change.Weather will get more extreme,not nesacerily warmer.90% of scientists agree but hey what do they know?
Feb.4 at 6:07 pm
lane says:
How ? How will he change them ? HEck Dubya said the same things and people called him stupid. How will he change healthcare ? Look at his or Hillary’s comments about $5k for this or $3k For that or saying that she would “force ” people to have healthcare - add those numbers up and tell me how we can afford it ? How much of your income are you willing to pay in taxes Allen P ? 50% ? 60% ? How much ? give me a number to work with.
Feb.4 at 6:07 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
ryan i’m cool with the fact that there are black repub’s who endorse huchabee. for every white difference of opinion there is a black one. not everybody is on board with the democrats and considering how scary acting they sometimes are why should that surprise anyone (when i say scary acting i don’t meant intimidation. i mean acting afraid. being weak against the repubs)…lane i appreciate your words but the fact that you support romney tells me alot about you…i’m ok with your thoughts on drlling here in the states, whether that means alaska or the the dakotas. my point is that you seem to think that alternative ways of energy creation are still in the experimental stage. They are not. there has been scientific studies galore where it has been shown that other ways are available but people have to put money into these industries. but leadership has to initiate and i don’t see romney has having that type of thought process. he’s a business man. and i mean that in the worst way
Feb.4 at 6:07 pm
Captain America says:
Russ and Ryan, MLK’s dream was that his children (in Obama’s age bracket) would be judged not by the color of their skin. But what I’m reading in these posts is plenty of reasons that skin color (versus the content of one’s character) is the deciding factor. As in “isn’t it time” “former presidents looks like Harvard reunion class circa 1935″. Say, didn’t Obama go to Harvard? Were our posters in favor of Lynn Swann’s run for Pennsylvania governor?
Feb.4 at 6:08 pm
lane says:
90% of scientists don’t agree. Way to pull a number out of your ase and try to pass it off as an “accepted statistic” Climate change is cyclical - MOther Nature– has been for ,, well depending on your belief system — a little over 6,000 years or millions of years.
Feb.4 at 6:10 pm
H to the izzo says:
“Mother Nature”?
Feb.4 at 6:11 pm
lane says:
Khalid - just like your support of Obama tells me alot about you. The technology does exist — but a lot of things have to change - policy wise - will Obama do that or has he already been bought by companies - check out his donors. By the way - How much of your large paycheck are you willing to give in taxes to fund all the entitlements and programs he wants?
Feb.4 at 6:12 pm
lane says:
Yeah that is what they called it in school - Mother Nature. well I mean 93.456% of teachers did anyway.
Feb.4 at 6:12 pm
Captain America says:
Incidentally, Obama has great oratory skills. What bothers me is big government programs, the suggestion that we invade Pakistan, and his answer to the question about what he would do should we encounter a nuclear attack…make sure the first responders get the message (Billary suggested a counterstrike).
Feb.4 at 6:12 pm
lane says:
I am going home - not ignoring you - but I am going to hop into my gas gussler and head home.
Feb.4 at 6:12 pm
H to the izzo says:
Lane:I can name the major RESPECTED scientists who agree with you.Also what’s your plan when the oil runs out?
Feb.4 at 6:15 pm
lane says:
H — are you following the entire conversation or are you picking out bits and pieces ? I have already stated alternate energry needs to be developed and there is a ton of oil yet to be drilled and lo and behold - the Earth produces oil continuously. it is not finite.
Feb.4 at 6:16 pm
Captain America says:
Izzo, did you know that the Chinese are drilling for oil between Cuba and Floria? There is no shortage of oil, only the limitations we place on ourselves to access the oil.
Feb.4 at 6:18 pm
Ryan Jones says:
In addition to the “giving the market too much credit” difference, liberals and conservatives seem to differ on human compassion. There’s no point in arguing about that one. You either care about the human race and the individuals in it, or you don’t.
Feb.4 at 6:20 pm
lane says:
John Coleman - founder of the Weather Channell –I can give you lots of names.
Feb.4 at 6:20 pm
H to the izzo says:
Cap:I didn’t know that,odd that the US seems to be appeasing a form of government they hate so much.Bring back McCarthyism.
Feb.4 at 6:22 pm
lane says:
Izzo like to make up stats and regurgitate things he hears and accepts as truths. Ryan - that is not a fair statement. I care about HUmans and have much compassion — I will ask you again — How much of your check are you willing to give up in taxes to support all these programs and entitlements ? How much compassion is in you ? 50% 60% ?? how much ??
Feb.4 at 6:25 pm
H to the izzo says:
Lane-Thinks John Coleman is a legitimate scientist.
Feb.4 at 6:25 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
lane– pay out the arse for taxes now. and yeah i hate it but i know that alot of it goes to pay for the fire dept etc. nobody in the us wants to pays taxes well you know what? in france and other euro countries they pay way more for taxes as compared to the us. in return they get free medical care. seems fair to me.
Feb.4 at 6:26 pm
H to the izzo says:
Lane-Gay marriages.Yay or nay?
Feb.4 at 6:31 pm
Captain America says:
Ryan, good for you not to venture into that one. But your premise might be just a bit of an oversimplification. Conservatives believe in entrepreneurship, freedom of choice, free markets and capitalism. Liberals believe in big government solutions (oxymoron) by taxing wage earners more, consensus, corporations are bad, and the like.
Feb.4 at 6:35 pm
Captain America says:
Izzo, oh, I’m lost: “Appeasing a government they hate so much.” China’s drilling oil between the Florida keys and the Cuban coast simply points out that there is considerable oil available to the US if it could be drilled for. The US is not appeasing China, Cuba has sold China the rights to drill for it.
Feb.4 at 6:38 pm
H to the izzo says:
Cap:Communist superpowers generally aren’t friends of America.Just wondering why the US isn’t more anti-China?It’s a good thing but uncharacteristic.
Feb.4 at 6:38 pm
Captain America says:
Billary is going for the Hispanic and women’s vote. Obama is going for the black vote. Bill-ary is campaigning in black churches in an attempt to grab some of Obama’s base. All this identify politics is dividing the country, not uniting it.
Feb.4 at 6:40 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
conservatives believe that the ends justify the means. a dangerous perspective indeed. i’m more liberal then conservative even though i’m pro-guns. i hate guns for the record but i’d hate not having one when i needed it even more
Feb.4 at 6:47 pm
Captain America says:
Izzo, you raise a tough geopolitical question. The Chinese military has been fairly aggressive of late. Not letting our sailor port to meet their families during Thanksgiving, a recent near face-off when Chinese subs penetrated the defenses of a US naval group, the shooting down of a weather satellite (as an indication that they could shoot down our intelligence satellites. And, of course, the help given to the Sudanese government as they slaughter innocent lives in Darfur.
Feb.4 at 6:50 pm
Captain America says:
Khalid, interesting, I’m pro-gun for the same reason.
Feb.4 at 7:13 pm
DP says:
I’m not old enough to vote yet, but I know I have been slacking. I haven’t watched any of the debates and I am clueless to who is running besides Obama and Clinton. I need to step my game up and learn what each of the candidates stand for and how they are going to improve my country. I know I won’t be able to vote until 2012 but I want to know the issues now and be better aware so I can make the right vote for our country when that time comes. play wit it.
Feb.4 at 7:20 pm
Jukai says:
Hilary gets my vote. Some things Obama says about his foreign policy, he really doesn’t get it. Or he’s dumbing it down for the American public. Also, I’m not down for universal healthcare. Medicade and Medicare are so god awful (very bad for both patients and more bad for doctors), why would government run health care be any better?
Feb.4 at 7:34 pm
nothin personal says:
Khlid, it’s 1.30 p.m right where I am, and you are gonna have me up for another hour or so reading all those comments. So congratulations on a great article, but f you.
P.s. We are about to elect the first ever commie president in Cyprus (allegedly). Groovy!
Feb.4 at 7:41 pm
nothin personal says:
plus, people like lane are the true reason foreigners hate Americans. He is the core of an arrogant, me first, short term, step over dead bodies philosophy that makes your country “GREAT”.
Feb.4 at 7:42 pm
rob stewart says:
I think Obama or Hilary are pretty even. But let’s say they decided to join forces, then I would want Obama to be the president. I have a feeling that Obama would listen to Hilary’s input more than she would his. For that reason I would rather have Obama as the Pres. and Bill/Hilary as the vice president. Either way I would be happy for both of them for making history. Just vote.
Feb.4 at 7:46 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
I’m anti-humans. Including myself. If you want to know how I feel about things, read Kurt Vonnegut.
Feb.4 at 8:10 pm
nothin personal says:
I just read lane’s comment where he states he is considering the option that the wotld history might have begun (as the Good Book states) 6000 years ago and i just gave my head the Russ treatment! But what do I kmnow, i am a stupid atheist. Plus, if giving up 40% of my income would mean the government budget for spending would increase by 200%, (with the rest of the money coming from taxing corporate profit and billionaires) then I would be more than happy to oblige.
Feb.4 at 8:20 pm
nothin personal says:
Khalid, have you ever considered that no guns at all means that you probably won’t need a gun to defend you are self, since you can’t, lets say, get robbed at gunpoint. plus, I am really considering moving to Sweden, and believe me, giving up on all that sunshine is a hard decision.
Feb.4 at 8:23 pm
nothin personal says:
yourself. I am running ot of caffeine
Feb.4 at 8:30 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
I personally enjoyed the assertion that oil is a renewable resource. Sure, we only have to wait for fossilized plant matter to be compressed and superheated. Technically is it renewable? Sure. And in a billion years, if the Earth hasn’t been blown up or knocked out of orbit by then, there may be a limitless supply waiting for whoever occupies this burned-out rock after us. But until then? With everyone in America still wanting their SUV, and billions upon billions of people in China and India wanting to be just like us (and finally having the money to do so), it’s like filling a swimming pool with a water pistol while you simultaneoulsy empty it with 10 fire hoses. That makes sense to someone other than me, right?
Feb.4 at 8:34 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
And I’m mostly against guns. I don’t understand why you don’t need any specialized training to own and operate a shotgun, when you do to o&o something like a motorcycle. There’s pretty much no way I’d ever have a gun in my house–ESPECIALLY if I had kids.
Feb.4 at 8:34 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Which I won’t ever have anyway, unless there are some radical changes. Which there won’t be. Oh well. Born alone, die alone.
Feb.4 at 9:57 pm
jj says:
I’m with Obama on this one… might not be perfect, but he sure is a change. And given the state of the affairs right now… I’d like to turn over a new page. A breath of fresh air. it might be too cold and make you sick in the end (hopefully not), but I need the fresh air right now…
Feb.4 at 11:55 pm
Co Co says:
Either everyone needs a gun or no one needs a gun. I’m voting for………. not telling.
Feb.5 at 6:21 am
Tariq says:
Russ has just gained major points with me for referencing Vonnegut. lane is an *
Feb.5 at 6:54 am
nothin personal says:
Co Co. This is exactly like saying that either everyone needs nuclear weapons or no one needs them. It sounds logical, but in the end, would you trust an unstable regime like Chad’s, or a hard pressed nation like lets say Jordan, with nukes? I know I wouldn’t. The same goes with handguns, only in a smaller skale.
Feb.5 at 7:24 am
Captain America says:
So lane, are you hanging out in airport bathrooms as much as I do? We should meet up some time…
Feb.5 at 8:21 am
Tariq says:
nothin personal… I understand what you’re saying, but I hope you realize that the United States does not care about a regime being “stable” per se. It just cares about whether a regime is serving its interests or not. Would you characterize a military junta in Colombia which executed civilians for no reason as a “stable” regime? Yet the US supported them because it served its interests. And if anyone thinks Iraq is about “democracy”, then they probably think Papa Smurf is a real dude. By the way, that democracy line eerily resembles the Europeans in Conrad’s Heart of Darkness, who justified their mission to steal ivory from a bloodied Congo by saying that they were “civilizing those savages”. Food for thought.
Feb.5 at 8:23 am
Tariq says:
“Exterminate the Brutes!”
Feb.5 at 8:45 am
Sam Rubenstein says:
They just opened a new school near me, which is now the place I go to vote, and it’s a block away from the train… thus I get to pop in, choose a leader for the free world, then head to the CANYON OF GIANTS!!!!!
Feb.5 at 9:59 am
Sko says:
maybe this one will last 2 days, I can actually respect lane’s opinions. doesn’t seem to be a bad dude, like evil or anything, I just disagree, strongly. Cap, as always, you’re wack. you ref’d id politics, decrying the way they’re dividing the country/people. We have never not had id politics at play in the administration and policy of this country. It starts with various Europeans, some religious dissidents, some criminals, some ‘entrepeneurs’, all defining themselves over and against the native peoples. So European id, then “whiteness” see slavery, then “Americans”, all huge ideas/identities that drove the politics of this nation. Surprised nobody said Edwards’ name so far, cuz even though I’m an African,and I grew up in the Chi, I wasn’t 100% w/Barack til Edwards dropped out. Obviously Edwards was white, handsome, and nationally known, so he could develop whatever pseudo-progressive politics he wanted for a minute. Barack only has 2.5 out of three.
Recognize, Tariq is right, Barack or any other president will not free you. He is not the personification of King’s dream or any such other nonsense. But waking up next to a sister every day is definitely a whole different perspective for ‘the leader of the free world’ oh and khalid, I mostly appreciate your writing and opinions, but I couldn’t play myself and name some ‘good’ U.S. presidents. I can’t even think of any.
Feb.5 at 10:32 am
Tariq says:
I can name a good U.S. president: Malcolm X.
Feb.5 at 10:33 am
Tariq says:
Oh, wait…
Feb.5 at 10:47 am
Cheryl says:
I’m sorry I missed this yesterday. What’s most interesting to me in this election cycle is not just the seeming shift in identity politics (tho’ that’s fascinating to me because that’s what my research gets at)but the fact that far more people are discussing the state of the world in a deeper way than there have been in the past. For the last several decades, the dialog has been so polarized and surface, that you didn’t really have to THINK in order to decide who you were for or against. Now there seems to be much more analysis and engagement by young people (folks under 30) in the world we live in than there has been in a long long time. That engagement is what I find exciting and just might lead to some real change in the way we operate in the world. For my money, Barack seems to be the only one truly willing to listen and respond to this dialog that’s happening on the blogs, in the coffee houses and on Basketball sites!!
Feb.5 at 11:01 am
Krayzie Bone says:
Out of who’s left, if I had the choice, he would be mine; Paul would be second. McCain’s view of foreign policy is baffling; its as though he believes there is a limitless army, as opposed to the chewed up mess that is left. Its amazing to me with 1/6 of the official budget going to “defense” spending, that people don’t seriously question how an insurgency can cause so much damage to all elements of the force, not just the largely guiltless soldiers there, but helicopters and tanks that wear down in the desert. i mean, where do the designers think these machines will be used, Japan? Russia? There is something to be said about the notion that weapons builders are always designing what was appropriate 20 years ago. The problem is that people who award the contracts are convinced to vote for them, not just with corruption, but with appeals to the economic needs of a congressperson’s district, by lowballing the costs, and by being sold on something by both the army, and a contracter who is former army. The latest generation of planes is a perfect example. They cost something like a quarter Billion each, and to do what? to defeat machines that don’t exist in the aresnals of other nations. in fact, the next most lethal plane on the market is being sold by the US to its Nato allies like Poland. ugh. Rant over
Feb.5 at 11:12 am
Krayzie Bone says:
Jukai. The corruption in American government run programs is baffling. The entire industrialized world has government run non-profit healthcare, and is better off for it. France is the model. Canada seems to be moving towards the US model, because our politicians like to emulate whatever they see coming from the US, and even use the arguments of the American right to make it happen (as though a longer life expectancy for half the price is a bad thing). Single payer is the way to go, as certain things aren’t marketable commodities but necessities. Paul’s ideas are interesting, and if he wished to set up an experimental zone to try them, perhaps his home state, and they worked, perhaps they would be worth pursuing. I genuinely believe that politics on the scale of the US or China (though they don’t really have politics there) or India, or just about any country that creeps past 10 million citizens, makes things unwieldy and complex (so I would include my own nation). Politics cannot exist without citizen involvement, whether by a direct vote, or some other means, and the direct vote in the US seems to have so little meaning, measured against things like media exposure, and advertizing. The people don’t determine who should run, they are simply presented with this person or that person: tell us who you like. The simpsons did the best parody of this when the two Aliens landed and stated that its too bad, you have to run for one of us.
Feb.5 at 11:13 am
lane says:
john coleman is a legitimate scientist - there are many more.
Feb.5 at 11:17 am
lane says:
khalid - how do we pay out the arse for taxes now ? you probably pay 28-32% right now - with Barack or her thighness you will be paying 45-55% to fund all their programs. Why — in your mind - why is it okay to take money away from the billionaires of the world - say Warren Buffett? Why it is okay to punish him for being successful ? Shouldnn’t we have a flat tax — like say Russia ? Liberals believe the means justifies the “probable” end which is just as dangerous. p.s. Tariq — you can kiss my A*. You don’t even know me.
Feb.5 at 11:20 am
lane says:
H- gay marraiges - obviously i am a “religious Zealot” amongst the sea of agnostics and or atheists - but what the hell. I don’t support it — but having said that - I believe in free will. Same as abortion — I don’t support it either - but I believe free will trumps the “right question”.
Feb.5 at 11:23 am
Krayzie Bone says:
Someone at my school paper compared Barack to Nelson Mandela. That analogy is so wrong and ridiculous on so many levels because if the lack of any connection other than to half of Barack’s genes…even then, Kenya is about as close to South Africa as I am to Nicaragua. The slave trade was concentrated in the west African states, particularly Senegal (though obviously not limited to it). If you wanted a more accurate parallel, perhaps the American Indian Movement would be a better fit, since they are the native population, and they have had tonnes stolen from them. Of course, they aren’t the majority of citizens, nor even a sizeable minority, so they don’t have a shot. Blacks in the US are in a different political position. Its hard to pick a great parallel, because of the geographic isolation they have from their distant relatives, compared to other slave populations. When Rome took slaves it was from 400 miles away, and the slave revolts often had support from parent populations. In the US system, there was nothing. At this point, the only thing that is left is an identity forged soley on ancestry. The culture is totally a product of the post-war period. The prewar culture has been wholey appropriated by entire nation (jazz, etc.) and a lot of the postwar culture has as well. All of the institutions are imprinted upon the communities (Christianity, unless you are Ethiopian, in which case your nation wasn’t part of the slave trade). Even Islam in the US is a construction of the day. As an attempt to claim something for the community as opposed to have it handed down, it is of the community, yet the outfits, the language of militancy, is purely American (or post european).
Feb.5 at 11:26 am
lane says:
Nothing personal -
How in the world can you come to that assumption about me from a message board Dr. Phil ? and if you read the enitre comment - I said it depends on your belief system - either 6,000 years ago or millions of years. Try to keep up with the conversation or relegate yourself to the current state of mediocrity and ineptitude you live in. Don’t pick one thing out of what I said- distort the context and try to attack it. Maintain some intellectual honesty and integrity if you have it. You paying 40% would not increase goverment budgets by 200% and again — why should the billionaires and corporations pay more taxes? Every american would have to pay upwards of 95% to make a difference and eliminate the budget while funding just the existing programs. - You think a law abolishing guns would work ? - Wouldn’t the criminals still have guns ? Wouldn’t it be possibel for a group of people to “ethnically cleanse” society from say the Jews?
Feb.5 at 11:34 am
Krayzie Bone says:
Lane, Barrack social obligatins wouldn’t cost that much. Canada’s level of taxation isn’t that high. Only a state with a massive social Safety net has taxes in that range (63% I believe). As for taxation, the work that Warren Buffet does, in economic terms, is the management of allocative efficiency. He is the most successful individual involved in it of course. But he didnt do any work. He didn’t make anything. Its not even capitalism, in the traditional sense. The reason that he should be taxed at a higher rate is to discourage distortions in the market place. The reason he is taxed more than the average person is to go for what is known as the big trade-off. Efficiency for equality. Since we don’t live in a true market economy anywhere on the earth, as we have chartered the permanent, market distorting entities of corporations, any argument about true markets is false. In economic we have oligopolistic and Monopoly entities (though economics texts tends to put an unreasonably high standard for an oligopoly) for major consumer goods, and there is some Monopolistic for things like restaurants and less crucial goods (different than monopoly. Go figure. A language of 800000 words, and they found those two for differentiation). Paul’s ideas are intersting, and should be experimented with somewhere, but they have never existed anywhere. The economists he references were creating hypothetical models based on Smithian logic, and maybe their ideas work, maybe they don’t. But they have never been demonstrated, so we have no idea about their utility.
Feb.5 at 11:36 am
Tariq says:
lane: I was just looking for an excuse to use that * reference. No harm no foul.
Feb.5 at 11:39 am
lane says:
Russ-
I can’t read Vonnegut — anyone who says that terrorists are “very brave people” and that they are “dying for their own self-respect” is troublesome to me. Hard for me to imagine how it all gets distorted. Were those mentally handicapped women that got sent into blow up the store dying for their own self-respect ? I thought it was the 70 virgins ? You stick with Vonnegut - as for me — I will stick with Jonah Goldberg, Amity Shales, Bruce BAwer, Andrew Roberts and M. Stanton Evans. As for the oil - again - it is not finite and there is more oil here in this great land than they have over there in the desert. Billions of years? Where did you come to that determination ? Oil is a dead issue - I have already stated I am for alternate energy sources and to cease or greatly limit the use of oil for energy. p.s. - relieved to know you won’t have kids. They would probably end up thinking like you do. Sorry to hear you were born alone - I woudl understand that to mean you were born in a bathroom and thrown in the dumpster ?
Feb.5 at 11:47 am
Krayzie Bone says:
Lane your arguement about guns is silly, because it has already been demonstrated that yes a society with guns can still be terrorized. That society was Iraq, and half of all households had firearms under Saddam Hussein. That is one of the factors that allowed the initial insurgency to start the day the regime fell. Your society, if it so chose, could do anything it wants with the power of its military, including on your own. When I went to the republican national committee in 2004 to protest (a waste of time for so many reasons upon reflection), I saw some of those resources marshalled. The manpower brought out to intimidate a peaceful process was unreal. It may be true that gun laws wouldn’t work in the US for the same reasons that the welfare state never materialized to the same level it did in the rest of the industrialized world. There is too much commitment to the maintenance of what already exists. I think personally it should be ammended in the constitution, because the constitution was written in a different defence paradigm. There were no mechanized vehicles, no planes, no powered ships and certainly no ICBMs. The constitution was written the way it was so that decentralized states would raise militias (the national guard today) in order to provide for civil defence of the area in which residents lived. The meaning of the document is clear in its drafting. At this point, that is not how defense is organized. Major military hardware is responsible for defense, though no one has launched a military attack on the US since 1812, when the British in what would become Canada set fire to the whitehouse. And that is tame stuff. The second ammendment is not applicable for the way its written, so by a convention, it should be changed to a states issue. The hunting rights of a rural state should not be trampled by a federal law banning guns, and a massive metropolis should not be held hostage by a bunch of paranoid boobs who can’t fathom what gun crime in an urban setting is like. Finally, the way you have used intellectual dishonesty is as an epithet, not in its technical meaning. You have therefore used it as an ad hominem attack, and deserve little sympathy when complaining about arguments (as does the ineptitude comment, but I digress). Intellectual dishonesty is where you leave out a fact that would harm your case, that you know to be true. Its something that happens in legal matters a lot (irony). This is a hypothetical, but for illustration: I know OJ simpson is a good man, and never killed his ex-wife, he wasn’t even there that night! (and then the rejoinder would be I also know it to be true because he told me he hired so and so to do it). In this case. He did not technically kill his wife, but he did murder her under most statutes in US states. More to the point, his involvement negates the orginal argument that he is good.
Feb.5 at 11:49 am
lane says:
great now i am getting blocked - krayzie — i wrote you a response but this happens everytime i have a discussion on here - khalid or ryan or russ put the conservative blcok on.
Feb.5 at 11:50 am
Tariq says:
Wait, Vonnegut not worth reading??? Krayzie Bone, save your well-researched breath.
Feb.5 at 11:56 am
Krayzie Bone says:
Of course most suicide bombers are brave by a measure of their lack of fear in the accomplishment of their ideals. The 72 virgins thing is overblown, because they aren’t doing it for that reason. That is an incentive that has been used in order to maintain commitment to the missioin for those in the muslim world, and since suicide bombing has been used by other groups, principally Hindu’s (tamils in sri lanka), its not universal. Brave doesn’t mean they are good. I think we can agree that the use of civilians in a plane to kill other civilians, who bear little to no responsiblity for the shape of the world today (some do but even then I would argue that violence in self defence is the only just violence). But willing to lay down your own life for your ideals is an archetype for bravery. Just as US soldiers are lauded for their bravery on the ground in Iraq, often committed to doing things that are very wicked by any measure (those that commit clearly dilineated crimes are another matter). Now there is more agency on the part of someone like Mohammed Atta, as he was clearly a volunteer for the mission, and clearly had a purpose in mind that was an attack on US civilians. In Iraq, most crimes are committed in a routine way, like those guys are driving near us. Our rules of engagement say we do this. Boom. Whoops, 12 more dead civilians.
Feb.5 at 11:58 am
Krayzie Bone says:
Its likely not a conservative block. Its likely that you used either a link or a lot of proffanity. I have had comments moderated before due to link useage, and it can be baffling. Its up to the staff to get to them, and on a threat with this much content, forget about it. If you want to send me your response, I’ll read it and return it. sabonis15 at hotmail dot com.
Feb.5 at 11:59 am
Krayzie Bone says:
I don’t mind debating tariq. I live for this kind of thing, being a poli sci major and all.
Feb.5 at 12:05 pm
lane says:
I do not use profanity sir — nor did I post a link. Trust me — it is Khalid or Russ — Ryan one of those tree hugger guys (in jest). Why would I continue to read Vonnegut - which I have — when I don’t agree with his thought process. There is more than one way to think and live. I choose not to read his stuff because of his beliefs and statements on terrorism.
Feb.5 at 12:07 pm
lane says:
again - it is not self-esteem as Vonnegut alleged but a religious belief - a way of life dictated in the Koran
Feb.5 at 12:11 pm
Tariq says:
Krayzie Bone: I don’t know where that 72 virgin thing came from. and lane, are you saying that you don’t read Vonnegut because you live your life according to the Qur’an? Because I live my life according to the Qur’an, and Breakfast of Champions is awesome.
Feb.5 at 12:14 pm
lane says:
no — I said the terrorists died for what they believe and read in the Quran — not for self-esteem. I read and live by other scripture - I do not follow Mohammed.
Feb.5 at 12:20 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
Lane do you really not see the benefit of having higher taxes? In many of the Euro countries (esp France) this is how they