How The East Was Lost
A rambling and somewhat pointless post about a rambling and somewhat pointless team. Does anyone actually understand the Knicks?
by Russ Bengtson
The New York Knicks had their last All-Stars back in 2001, when Allan Houston and Latrell Sprewell made the trip to DC. Since then, they’ve had plenty of All-Star players on the roster, but none have managed to reach that level again while wearing the blue and orange. Just in case you’ve forgotten anyone, here’s a complete list (with their All-Star appearances in parentheses).
Larry Johnson (1993, 1995)
Glen Rice (1996-98)
Stephon Marbury (2001, 2003)
Penny Hardaway (1995-98—yeah, he was only a four-time All-Star)
Dikembe Mutombo (1992, ’95-98, ’00-02)
Antonio McDyess (2001)
Vin Baker (1995-98)
Steve Francis (2002-04)
Antonio Davis (2001)
This doesn’t even get into the should-have-been All-Stars (either by talent or reputation) like Jalen Rose, Tim Thomas, Zach Randolph and Keith Van Horn.
Isn’t it an indictment of EVERYBODY involved with the Knicks organization since then? When you specialize in trading for past-their-prime players who make a big splash in name only, doesn’t that make you a bad GM? When you bring in guys who were All-Stars just a few short years before, and they can’t even crack the starting lineup of a lottery team, doesn’t that make you a bad coach? This isn’t just aimed at Isiah Thomas, mind you—he wasn’t the one who traded Marcus Camby, Mark Jackson AND Nene’s rights for Antonio McDyess.
But Isiah does bear a good share of the blame. He has a reputation for drafting extremely well, mainly based on his days in Toronto. Many of his picks here have been heralded with a great deal of fanfare. And for what? Channing Frye, who was selected eighth overall in 2005 and praised to the heavens, was unceremoniously shipped out of town (and hasn’t been heard from since). Nate Robinson hasn’t played in the past two games. Renaldo Balkman’s minutes have decreased. And Mardy Collins, Wilson Chandler and Randolph Morris aren’t in the rotation at all. Only David Lee has gotten serious minutes, and even his game seems to have slipped. Free agent signings have been even worse. Jerome James has been—at best—ineffective, and Jared Jeffries looks like a shell of his former self.
As for the trades, the Knicks almost always seem to come ahead talent-wise. Isn’t it time that someone questioned why? That, perhaps, maybe in EVERY instance, the Knicks have taken on players that no one else particularly wanted? Isiah has shopped impulsively, bringing in player after player regardless of how they’d fit in to the Knicks system (assuming there even is one) callously casting off those who don’t work—Francis, Mutombo, Jalen Rose, Maurice Taylor. Others are buried on the bench—primarily Malik Rose, the one guy on the team who’s actually won a championship, and presumably knows something of success. He’d be a natural locker room leader if he only played every once in a while. And if the other players would listen to him.
What kind of team are the Knicks going to be? Will they be a post-based team built around Eddy Curry and Zach Randolph? Then maybe think about moving some of the spare parts to surround them with three-point shooters (other than the supremely streaky ones they have) in order to space the floor better and give Eddy and Zach room to work. Are they going to be an up-and-down team that tries to outscore people? Then move Curry and Marbury, and bring in a Camby-type center (ironic, huh?) and a point guard who wants to run. Are they going to be a stifling defensive unit? Then, um, trade everybody and start over.
That’s what bothers me the most about the Knicks (and I’m not even a fan, I just go watch them a lot)—I can’t figure out for the life of me what kind of team they’re trying to assemble. And I don’t think anyone involved with the team knows, either.
31 Responses to “How The East Was Lost”
Dec.4 at 2:49 pm
white hot eboy says:
Russ, meet Bryan. Bryan, Russ.
Dec.4 at 2:56 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
I just want to know if there’s a method, or if it’s all just madness. (Also, the former All-Star thing came up at the last game and I thought it was interesting.)
Dec.4 at 2:57 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Maybe it’s just the curse of Patrick Ewing.
Dec.4 at 3:01 pm
white hot eboy says:
And Lebron would want to be a Knick in a few years for what reason?
Dec.4 at 3:09 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
If they get rid of everybody and promise to build him a new arena-slash-penthouse atop the 250-floor Freedom Tower that’s going to be built on Ground Zero anyday now.
Dec.4 at 3:21 pm
Ryan Jones says:
As has been previously implied around these parts, I think it’s roughly equivalent to US policy in Iraq: Throw lots of money & resources at the problem without a plan for how it’s actually going to get better, then look confused when it doesn’t. Method is madness, or vice versa. Either way.
Dec.4 at 3:25 pm
H to the izzo says:
The Isiah as Bush theory intrigues me Ryan and makes a lot more sense than it should
Dec.4 at 3:28 pm
bouncyman says:
The Isiah as Bush theory is intriguing.. the Bush as Isiah theory is absolutely frightening
Dec.4 at 3:32 pm
Ryan Jones says:
I didn’t say Isiah was Bush, necessarily — I’m talking about broader administrations. If we’re really going to break this down (and I”m totally up for trying!) we need to consider who’s really pulling strings? Is Isiah Cheney? Who’s Rummy and Ashcroft? Condi? Dolan is in all this somewhere, and the “incapable son” theme makes Jim look like W, but I’m not sure that works, either.
Also, does this mean Jeff Van Gundy is Bill Clinton? Because I kind of like that, for some reason…
Dec.4 at 3:33 pm
J-Smoove says:
hey russ….lebron james wanted to be a knick so he can be close to his best friend jay-z lol but now he secretly wants to be on the brooklyn nets…sorry cavs fans
Dec.4 at 3:33 pm
J-Smoove says:
my fault i meant hey white hot eboy
Dec.4 at 3:33 pm
Bryan says:
All NY teams are like that.They pay for names not production.
Dec.4 at 3:39 pm
Ryan Jones says:
J-Smoove, where are you that the LeBron-to-the-Nets rumor is news? That’s been bubbling since Bron’s second year. Are they really just now finding out about that in Corpus Christi?
Dec.4 at 3:44 pm
MoYooBuIuGuuPvEvNvIvS says:
they are a bad team
Dec.4 at 4:02 pm
Rasheedionics says:
It’s Knicks fan’s and new york media fault. They can’t allow the team to re-build because of potentially not winning for about 5 plus years which usually require to rebuild a team. Well guess what, they’re been sucking that long anyway only with high payroll and more drama than TNT… We see other teams like Magic, Denver and even Bulls rebuilding and their respective cities are patient with those teams because they know it takes time. New York don’t seem to have that type of patience. And it’s a damn shame.
Dec.4 at 4:05 pm
Doug McFlutie says:
you probably don’t watch the Knicks play if you think Malik Rose should be playing. Why not compare the average age of the players on the roster now and then? When were the Knicks successful? I keep reading about the supposed glory days of when the Knicks ALMOST won a ’ship. Then they trade Ewing away and the franchise falls apart (save for the strike shortened season’s run/fluke of 99). How successful can a franchise be if they collective success was based on one player? Maybe the franchise wasn’t as successful as you thought? Maybe it was just Ewing?
Dec.4 at 4:14 pm
watchNYlose says:
I like the J. Van Gundy Clintonian comparison…lol. Maybe Larry Brown cursed the Knicks for always taking Marbury’s side. Digression: I watched NY media and the Knicks persecute and hold Van Gundy (after holding on to Alonzo morning’s leg while fighting Larry Johnson–come on any coach brave enough to get between those 2 deserves tenure) accountable for team full of below par beat up aging stars. Even through this pressure Jeff produced wins–prolly should have brought Pat off the bench a year before he was fired.
Although Larry Brown (LB) had his faults he had a proven methodology for winning and no matter how much sympathy i feel for Stephon right now, he ruined his opp’ty for success by sabatoging Brown’s efforts. Now who’s sitting well. Can you imagine LB watching the off-season news with Isaiah in court for sexual harrassment and the Knicks being smeared and embarrassed, Stephon admitting to an extramarital affar, and Madison Sq Garden being implicated in a employee sexual harrassment scandal (Marbury’s cousins)? Bet that felt great. Payback is a bitch. Now NY repent, fire Isaiah eat Marbury’s 42 million and start over. GET SOME QUALITY BIG MEN! DUMBAZZES Team full of guards–been their problem since Oakley was traded.
Dec.4 at 4:20 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
That’s such a myth–how the f*ck can you blame the fans? They don’t make the trades or coaching changes. New York fans would TOTALLY be fine with rebuilding if it was done properly. It’s not their fault that the Knicks have done pretty much everything wrong since a) the Allan Houston contract and b) the Patrick Ewing trade. The only thing I can fault New York fans for is not staying away from the Garden in droves–and that’s only because hardly any of the people who go are real fans anyway. The real fans can’t AFFORD to go to games in the first place.
Dec.4 at 4:32 pm
DANNY says:
MAN F**K NY AND BESIDES ITS ALLL BOUT LA!!!
Dec.4 at 4:33 pm
Ryan Jones says:
What Russ said.
Dec.4 at 4:43 pm
Rasheedionics says:
Russ, I get what you’re saying… when I said fans, I meants people in the first row - $1000 a seat people. I guess they’re not really fans either except Spike Lee. So keep those expensive seats filled Knicks keep getting this “name” players and creating a mirage of having a contender… May be I’m wrong. So you tell me why Knicks just refuse to go into full fledge rebuilding mode like Bulls did after Jordan and Pip bounced. Why Knicks dont do that? I’m thinking it’s a business thing. Hard to do when you’re a big market team.
Dec.4 at 4:48 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
The Knicks are still the Knicks. It’s not like the first row was empty when the Layden team (Ward! Eisley! Anderson!) was here. The fans can take it. And if there was a LEGITIMATE rebuilding process ever started, the powers-that-be would see that. But GMs are convinced that they need to keep a quasi-competitive unit on the court to keep their jobs. PYA. The problem comes from the top.
Dec.4 at 5:03 pm
d.Y. says:
You’re right Russ. The whole thing is rotten. The “anonymous relative” that told them not to bother Steph as his father was dying is beyond ridiculous. Go to MSG if you want to see the Liberty, Ice Capades, Pro Wrestling, or Prince.
Dec.4 at 7:44 pm
Hillcrest says:
Russ,
Just say, despite going to a lot of games you still don’t know and leave it at that.
Dec.5 at 12:27 am
Granville Waiters Ghost says:
Um… Timmy Thomas should have been an all-star… when was that exactly? The guy’s never averaged 15 points and topped out a year ago with a career-best 5 (that’s five — I hate to have to spell it out like a Nigerian millionaire but really, that’s just shocking) rebounds a game. His only talent was for running fast and being tall: these are not NBA skills. If he were about three inches shorter, he’d have a career as storied as Harold Miner.
Dec.5 at 11:51 am
Jared says:
Danny you’re wylin…Russ…thank you and not to compare this issue with the Sean Taylor issue that was brought up last week (emphasize…not to compare the two at all) but remember how the feedback was…”what can we do? this is such a big problem” that’s kind of the same answer to this Knicks thing. It seems as if rebuilding was the only option, but they haven’t shown a glimpse of committment to rebuilding..ever. Towards the end of the Layden era it seemed like maybe they were gonna let eisley and shandon expire, build around (deep breathe) Lampe and Frank Williams? But then Zeke came in and extreme makover’d the team…all along piecing rotten apples togther. Q? Jared Jeffries? JC? These moves didn’t make any sense from the get. Larry Brown to coach the team of losers? Why? Yeah, he was the best on the market, and head and shoulders above Don Chaney or Herb…but how would that not have been a disaster? Do any players on this roster respond well to coaching styles like Larrys? They’re all egos, who the fans HATE! This team is embarassing to root for! It sucks because they are mostly very individually talented and they do show glimpses from time to time, but like you said Russ, they don’t have a system, and it’s like fighting that dude that is just all over the place, who can catch you off guard and hit you once or twice, but once you figure out they have no motive or focus, you find a way to take them out. This Knicks team needs to be unassembled as quickly as possible, from top down, and given to diddy and spike lee…
Dec.5 at 6:06 pm
Jordi Scrubbings says:
I disagree that a New York team can’t honestly rebuild. The Mets did it just a few years ago with Reyes and Wright. The fans will totally buy the “hey, these guys are the future of our franchise” line - if there was a future to the Knicks. My advice: take up a collection to buy the Knicks from Dolan et al. I don’t care who the owner face is, but put intelligent basketball analyst people in the GM role. People like ESPN’s John Hollinger. Guys who think out of the box. Then find a coach who can teach because its gonna be rough for a bit. Then when you have a nucleus, acquire help. Crazy, I know.
Dec.8 at 12:11 am
whitechocolate says:
jared sure is worked up over this
Dec.8 at 8:06 am
Zabba says:
Isiah Thomas doesn’t lick people’s butt. That’s why his players aren’t amused and play unmotivated.
Dec.8 at 2:33 pm
J-22 says:
Ok, the Knicks do suck but I don’t think its the coaching. Isiah is actually an okay coach and a good talent developer, look what he did for: Brad Miller, Ron Artest, Al Harrington and Jamaal Tinsley. I would say that he helped in the development of J O’Neal as well He does draft well; I think the locker room separation as well as the lack of defense, hurts the Knicks. Isiah did coach the Pacers from 2000 to 2003, and they had alot of no name players: Zan Tabak, Jon Bender (I mention him because I don’t ever think he played a complete season), Derrick McKey, and Austin Croshere, yet these guys played stifling defense. It is primarily assumed that because the Pacers didn’t reach the finals it is Thomas’ fault, but no one blames Flip Saunders for not taking the Pistons back to the Ship after Larry Brown. There a combination of things that occurred, for one the Pacers needed to get acclimated to a new system, this explains the first years first round exit. A the next couple of years the Pacers ran into hot teams. I actually think the Knicks suffer from a lack of a center and a true point guard!!!!
Marbury has no J at all and Crawford only thinks score so they cant run the pick and roll which is what this team is made for. This is why they traded for Q-Rich so he could do his Phoenix thing over and sit on the three point line. They drafted Nate to be the speed option but he cant shoot over anyone; if he decides to drive he has to pray for the foul or he wont score. There are good thoughts behind all the accusitions but they dont pan out
Dec.9 at 7:45 am
matizzay says:
I still have this recurring dream from time to time. Knicks trade 8 of their All-Stars for LeBron. and LBJ becomes a Knick. Takes them to glory.
gotdamn…