With Utmost Reference
Basketball by the numbers.
by Russ Bengtson
Sleep. Who needs it?
I’ll tell you what, it used to be a lot easier before cable TV and the internet. As it happens, I got caught up in both tonight-slash-this morning, all basketball related. First, a double-dip of He Got Game (with Travis Best as the oldest high-school student ever) and Blue Chips (I still don’t understand why they had Bobby Hurley play for Indiana). And all the while I found myself lost in my favorite non-SLAM basketball-related website—Basketball Reference dot com.
Not only does Basketball Reference include every stat imaginable (including John Hollinger favorite PER) and every conceivable award and playoff result, but it has some stuff you’ll never find on NBA.com, namely salary numbers, Hall of Fame probability (I assume they don’t take into account that the Hall hates NBA players) and statistical player comparisons (by age as well as by year). A few things jumped out at me:
• Shaquille O’Neal made more money in FOUR separate individual seasons than Kareem-Abdul Jabbar did over the course of his entire 19-year career.
• The player Tim Duncan has had the most similar seasons to? Pau Gasol.
• From their standpoint, Tim Hardaway (.655) is much more likely to make the Hall of Fame than Steve Nash (.117). And Vince Carter (.925) is a virtual shoo-in. But even Nash has a better shot than Jermaine O’Neal (.022).
• Michael Jordan played 13 seasons. At 21, 24, 27 and 28, his numbers were most similar to whose? Kobe Bryant’s. It’s worth noting that Kobe just turned 29 in August.
• Larry Bird’s career earnings? $26,495,000. And that’s including a ‘91-92 balloon payment of $7,070,000.
• Another Kobe note, because I know y’all love those. His ‘96-97 rookie season was closest statistically to Winford Boynes’s ‘79-80 season. No, I’ve never heard of him either.
• Over the course of their respective careers, Scottie Pippen actually made more money than Michael Jordan.
• Bobby Sura’s Hall of Fame probability is .000 (he’s obviously not the only one to take the triple zero, but it’s still funny). Jim Jackson scores a .001.
45 Responses to “With Utmost Reference”
Nov.6 at 7:49 am
Holly MacKenzie says:
Russ, I loved this post. As a stats-monger myself, the ones about Kareem and Bird just blow me away. While you were caught up on stats tonight, I was wrapped up in youtube videos..KObe’s rookie highlights, KG interviews, every Lakers press conference that I think was uploaded (minus of course, the kobe/vanessa bryant one that I don’t think anyone needs to ever relive). Remember Mike Penberthy? I completely forgot he existed. And also, I miss Madsen dancing at the parades. I seem to recall an article where they broke down how much Shaq made per minute per game or something along those lines because he was on a doctor-imposed minutes per game limit. I don’t know if that even makes sense, but I remember the numbers were just insane. Anyway.. enough of my drivel.. I really enjoyed the post.. and linking to all of those stories must have been annoying so thanks, it’s nice to know I’m not the only night-owl. I found Hoop Dreams online last week. THAT was a treat.
Nov.6 at 7:51 am
Hisham says:
That Shaq and Kareem thing shocked the hell out of me.. I knew the players get paid more than they used to, but damn..
Nov.6 at 7:52 am
Hisham says:
DAMN!
Nov.6 at 7:54 am
Russ Bengtson says:
Haha, isn’t being a sleep-deprived basketball junkie fun? Thanks! I’ll have to find time to take a serious nap before Nuggets/Knicks tonight, I think. And while I didn’t look up Mike Penberthy on BR.com (I TOTALLY remember that dude), I’ll bet his Hall of Fame probability numbers are zeroes for Sura—I mean sure.
Nov.6 at 7:57 am
Russ Bengtson says:
And obviously the salary numbers aren’t corrected for inflation or anything, but yeah, it’s still crazy. The idea that Shaq has made $231,614,005 playing basketball so far—not including ANY endorsements or the three years including this one left on his current contract—is absolutely insane. (Of course, the idea that A-Rod may sign a SINGLE contract for more than Shaq earned over HIS entire career is even MORE insane.)
Nov.6 at 8:00 am
Keith says:
Russ, that was excellent. One of my favourite SLAM posts (mainly for bringing that site to my attention). My life will never be the same again.
Nov.6 at 8:02 am
Hisham says:
that makes my brain hurt
Nov.6 at 8:06 am
Hisham says:
it kinda makes sense though.. Turn the word A-Rod around, and you get Dora which just so happens to be the Korean pronounciation of the word dollar (according to South Park, Team America World Police, Don’t Be A Menace…)! he was destined to make millions since the day he was born
Nov.6 at 8:06 am
Russ Bengtson says:
Mike Penberthy made $345,374. Which means he was infinitely more overpaid than the Diesel.
Nov.6 at 8:07 am
Hisham says:
okay that wasn’t funny
Nov.6 at 8:07 am
Holly MacKenzie says:
my posts are not going through…strange…
Nov.6 at 8:09 am
Holly MacKenzie says:
okay that was crazy Russ! Did he go and play overseas after his time in the NBA? I think its time to google. I wrote out a comment twice and it just disappeared into thin air, but that last one made the cut. I just ALSO finished watching the pilot episode of Heroes.. dundundun. strangee. ahhah
Nov.6 at 8:11 am
Russ Bengtson says:
Penberthy? Probably. He only played one full NBA season and part of another.
Nov.6 at 8:14 am
Holly MacKenzie says:
yeah and of course those were both for the Lakers… that was when I was young and impressionable and loved every player on the Lakers roster, regardless.
Nov.6 at 8:18 am
Russ Bengtson says:
The Hall of Fame probability numbers are crazy sometimes. Obviously they don’t take into account off-court activities and the like, seeing that Shawn Kemp’s probability (.041) is nearly twice Jermaine O’Neal’s. Not that either of them have a chance in hell at the moment.
Nov.6 at 8:20 am
Nadav says:
Penberthy played here in Berlin 2 years ago. I talked to him at a game once when he sat out with an injury (he sat in the stands. EUROPE!). I was wearing a throwback Kobe jersey. He liked it.
Mike is the man.
Nov.6 at 8:22 am
Nadav says:
Glen Rice was on that time with Penberthy. best.days.ever.
Nov.6 at 8:22 am
Russ Bengtson says:
Michael Jordan only made $2 million more in salary than Derrick Coleman. Of course he made up for it by making $50,000,000,000 in endorsements, but still.
Nov.6 at 8:24 am
Nadav says:
oops. I meant JR Rider.
JR and Penberthy as teammates. wow.
Nov.6 at 8:26 am
Holly MacKenzie says:
Totally unrelated note, but your mention of Kemp reminded me: Both of my cab drivers in Seattle told me they boycott Starbucks and one of them told me losing Kemp was the saddest day in sports history for him. Then he started going on a rant about Payton and how you have to be loyal and be a good business man and lie to the media and the fans if you have to.. and even if GP was a miserable sob you say what you have to in order to keep him there. The guy morphed from gentle, sweet cabbie to enraged fan in mere seconds. Once we got to the arena, he continued to prattle on until I slowly slipped some money into his hand and slid out of the car. It’s gotta be tough trying to root for Seattle.
Nov.6 at 8:40 am
Keith says:
Losing Kemp has pretty much led to the mess that Seattle is in now. Vin was never going to be an adequate replacement - he was the complete opposite in personality and in style.
Nov.6 at 8:46 am
Keith says:
And having compared salaries, Vin got paid more over his career and also got more in one single season than the reignman. It’d be interesting to see how much Stern gets. (I’m loathe to use the word ‘earn’).
Nov.6 at 8:46 am
Nadav says:
yeah, Vin stayed away from drugs and food.
Nov.6 at 8:52 am
Holly MacKenzie says:
Dammit, Russ.. I specifically had removed that site from my favorites bar because I get sucked into stuff like that and now you post it and I’ve spent the past 45 minutes looking up stuff! Looks like today is going to be a mishmash of school,sleep and stats. It’s fun though, isn’t it? So much to look up.
Nov.6 at 8:53 am
Keith says:
Vin stayed away form drugs and food but sadly got caught up in alcohol. Any one know how he’s doing these days?
Nov.6 at 9:17 am
Russ Bengtson says:
It’s the best and worst site ever.
Nov.6 at 9:33 am
white hot eboy says:
Really good post, Russ. The fact that Scottie made more money than Michael in playing monies is just stupid.
Nov.6 at 9:34 am
Bryan says:
I’m all over basketball reference.
Nov.6 at 9:52 am
Russ Bengtson says:
How about the fact that Shaq’s already made more than Michael and Scottie COMBINED?
Nov.6 at 9:59 am
white hot eboy says:
Yeah, that’s fu*cking horrible too. But it would be hard to fathom what Michael, Larry, Magic or Kareem would have made in today’s game. While Michael made boatloads of dollars with his endorsements, the other three never got that type of love everywhere, like Mike did. It’s a shame.
Nov.6 at 10:05 am
Hisham says:
Juwan Howard is the fifth highest-paid player in NBA history. F I F T H ! ! ! !
Nov.6 at 10:07 am
Hisham says:
and how about Brian Grant making more than Michael Jordan
Nov.6 at 10:08 am
Hisham says:
I now plead the fifth
Nov.6 at 10:09 am
white hot eboy says:
THIS IS WHY I HATE NUMBERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nov.6 at 10:19 am
Hisham says:
in 02-03 Juwan Howard made about 20,000,000 USD. That’s 8,000,000 more than Tim Duncan. (MVP and NBA Champ that year).
Nov.6 at 10:20 am
Hisham says:
hahahaha this is fun
Nov.6 at 10:24 am
Hisham says:
you think juwan howard would want to trade places with tim duncan?
Nov.6 at 10:44 am
matt the jazz fan says:
and you know why? duncan just left 11 mill (that’s what i read, i didn’t fact check this) on the table.
i wish malone had done that way back (check my screen name) instead of only bestowing that generosity on the lakers. maybe we could have got a more athletic shooting guard (problem still haunts us today - and yes i say “still” that because i don’t want to jinx young mr brewer). although the refs would have still given it to mike…
Nov.6 at 11:21 am
Bryan says:
Robert Horry has a HOF probability of .37
Nov.6 at 11:50 am
Rubens says:
but there’s no way to fix stuff like pip making more money than mj, or shaq making more than mj & pip…
Nov.6 at 12:00 pm
Myles Brown says:
The entire internets home page should be Basketball Reference. Or Google.
Nov.6 at 12:37 pm
Jay Davis says:
Isn’t MJs HOF prob. sixth on the list? I wish I could remember the formula they use to determine that.
Nov.6 at 1:21 pm
its just alex says:
I love how height fits into the formula for HOF probability. Someone phone Jason Collins and tell him he still has a chance.
Nov.6 at 10:17 pm
bootlace says:
I dont mind stats for reference’s sake, but when the people over at ESPN use it as the sole basis of their analysis, thats when I get pissed off.
Nov.6 at 11:44 pm
Robbi says:
Re: Pip making more than MJ. I guess you guys forgot that he retired twice? Im not sure, but isnt that about 3 years missed? So, assuming the retirements never occured, MJ could’ve made another 80 mill. Right?