Why the Sean Taylor issue is important to SLAM
It’s bigger than pointing fingers.
By Vincent Thomas
You may wonder why something on Sean Taylor’s recent death is appearing on the SLAM website; but if you haven’t noticed, SLAM is as much a part and product of urban culture as it is a part and product of the game of basketball. When I was a young teen, I didn’t read SLAM solely to read about basketball, I read SLAM because it spoke to me — and it spoke to me because it was coming from a place that I identified with. This Sean Taylor tragedy concerns SLAM and our readers because the problem is so pervasive and systemic and structural. It isn’t a football issue. It isn’t even athletic issue. It’s an American issue.
Athletes are being targeted — I fully believe that. This makes Sean Taylor’s death an American problem, specifically when you recognize that Antoine Walker, Andre Blatche, Eddy Curry and others were targets of similar criminal behavior. Even Paul Pierce’s stabbing incident can easily be cast in similar light.
Up to this point, we’ve heard a lot of extreme arguments, usually spouting out of the mouth of some middle-age judges. This irritates me. However, if I could add something from the perspective of a young black male: I think it’d be smart to cautiously and responsibly insert hip hop into this discussion. I’m not some old white geezer (Bill O’Reilly) or angry old black you know (Jason Whitlock) flippantly blaming a culture that they know as no more than a stereotype. I’m a hip hopper. And as a dude that grew up on hip hop and identifies with it’s purveyors and loves the music and culture, I’m also aware of many of its latent ramifications.
Hip hop is a major part of the systemic and structural reasons that this epidemic is upon us, because it both directly and indirectly promotes covetousness through materialistic oneupmanship. It began as a boastful musical artform. But in addition to the boasts and braggadocio was competition. It is the one music that so closely mirrors sports.
A couple of years after hip hop hit the scene, crack was introduced to the urban centers. This is important because, for the first time, you saw a bunch of young blacks, in the hood, making fast money and big money. Enough cash to buy gaudy jewels, expensive cars, etc. Gettin’ money was possible for anyone.
Fast forward to today — the crack rush has died down. Yet, while drug dudes scrap for crumbs, hip hop is still thriving and more importantly, the atmosphere of materialism is just as acute and maybe more deviant than before. Which brings us to another problematic layer, being that that the sentiment of hip hop is to degrade men that can’t afford platinum, ice, Escalades, etc. And another strong sentiment that sprung from the crack game is the By Any Means Necessary mantra. That means: I want all the fly things and I will sell crack to my aunt to get it. I will also rob you of yours to get it.
On more than one ocassion, I’ve been out with some associates and there’d be a hoodlum in the midst who will look at some dude rockin’ a nice chain and say something like, “Man, I should go snatch that Jesus-piece right of his neck.” And he’d mean it. There’s also a reason why an urban-hip-hop-cliche before you enter a club is to “tuck your chain.” If your’re a white dude, stepping into Les Deux with a Rolex on your wrist, you don’t have to worry about these kinda things. But don’t step into some spot on Crenshaw rockin’ platinum if you don’t want problems, because you’ll be targeted.
That’s the culture. You have a bunch of young men being told — through music and American capitalist thought — that they are squares without material things; these same black men don’t have “comfortable means” to getting it; and these same men have not developed the moral code to keep them from coveting and reacting on jealous impulse.
Sean Taylor was not a thug. I know thugs when I see them. They are my cousins in federal prison. They are the dudes that used to stalk my street in East Buffalo with fully brandished AK-47s or the other dudes stomping a kid for a$$ betting at the corner dice game. Sean Taylor is a football player. His death is not a “live by the sword, die by the sword” case of karmic justice. Sean Taylor is a rich athlete that grew up coveting the same trappings that many young black males do; and his profession afforded him the means to go get it. Same for Eddy Curry. Some criminals chose to go take it. When you turn on HBO and see Pretty Boy Floyd in his “24/7″ episodes carrying around wads of cash and price-quoting how much his jewels cost, one wonders when some thug will build the gumption to challenge Floyd’s security detail and make off with some of his spoils.
This is not something to be solved by simply scolding athletes into changing their appearance or lifestyle; or judging hip hop artists into changing their lyrics. This is a cultural and moral epidemic and an American problem, something that needs nationwide attention. It shouldn’t take someone running up on Brett Favre’s ranch and robbing him and his family at gunpoint before brains and serious critical thought are mobilized.
136 Responses to “Why the Sean Taylor issue is important to SLAM”
Nov.29 at 2:21 pm
riggs says:
great read.
Nov.29 at 2:26 pm
Paco says:
Nice piece!
Nov.29 at 2:35 pm
white hot eboy says:
Great piece.
Nov.29 at 2:37 pm
d.Y. says:
Wow. I do agree that American media oultets encourage materialism at the expense of community, but many points made in this article are irresponsible. Your correlation between the rise of Hip Hop and the popularity of abusing/selling crack is incorrect. Drug culture and “hood rich” people being flashy is far from new. Hip Hop is not a culture of ego based competition, violence and capitalism. In fact, it is a reaction to it. B-Boys started dance battles as an alternative to fighting and killing other gangs in the streets. MC’s who originally just wanted to make you dance, began reporting on the horrors of their environment because common people truly were unaware at this time. You seem to make the inference that this problem is a race or culture issue, when it’s more of a class issue. To put it simply: Poor people will rob you. By Any Means Necessary is from Malik Shabazz, then known as Malcom X. It had nothing to do with crack. Before crack, drug dealers would still kill you. Our issue deals with so much more than you’ve stated in this article, including our country’s purposely poor education system, our food intake, as well as our understood notions of hierarchy. Also, this has been going for a long long time. I don’t understand how a couple of publicized attacks are now bringing you to feel the need to write this.
Nov.29 at 2:38 pm
Jared says:
So what’s to be done about it? We know this is the problem, nobody’s blaming a genre of music, a racial group, or even a social demographic, we know this is the problem. What can be done? How do we change American values? It starts somewhere…why not through the media? I’m sure a lot of people on this site were/are/will be Communications majors…media’s influential
Nov.29 at 2:39 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
What ARE the answers, though?
Nov.29 at 2:52 pm
d.Y. says:
I think communication is helpful, but mass media is not something we as individuals (and groups with moderate/low incomes) can greatly affect. It’s like how everyone jumps on the presidential election, like you vote makes a difference. It has been proven that it doesn’t. Where your vote DOES count, in politics and everything else, is your community. Know who your mayor, city comptroller, boro president, sheriff, and dogwalker are. Lobby them to make the changes you would like to see. I do my thing here on the education tip, working with specific schools and communities to help with their needs. Support local farms instead of the brand name factory farms that allow animals to die under horrible conditions, placing virulent hormones in our bodies. Media is the same thing. Start a local newspaper, or a magazine like slam that caters to a specific audience. Hip Hop, as I understand it, does those things in many communities around the world. It’s all about doing things where you are, and allowing it to spread as it will. In Taoism it states, “you cannot save the world until you save yourself”
Nov.29 at 2:52 pm
mutoni says:
there are, i’m afraid, no readily available answers. (my chain costs $20. holla!)
Nov.29 at 3:01 pm
white hot eboy says:
dy to be a little lite, your last line of your last comment would be a great tagline for the next season of Heroes.
Nov.29 at 3:07 pm
d.Y. says:
i was thinking that too. excuse the grumpiness, i had a fantastic “hip hop is beautiful” evening, and a rehearsal tonight, and then had to read another “NWA and Kurtis ‘50 Cent’ Blow started hip hop by selling crack to their unborn children, and after that, black people started killing each other while speaking in rhyme” article
Nov.29 at 3:11 pm
Cheryl says:
There are no easy answers, and change doesn’t happen overnight. What’s going on right now, discussions like this happening on this site, in the barbershops, in living rooms, kitchens, in school yards, office spaces, is where change happens. Because we are slowly recognizing the down side of a culture based on superficial values like materialism and the excessive and irresponsible use and abuse of the planet, eventually we will see an adjustment in our value system. The best we can do right now, this minute, is to adjust our own personal value system. To say to ourselves “You know what? I’m not that interested in the flyest car, the gaudiest jewels, the biggest tv set. What’s more important to me is the safety and security of me, my family and loved ones, and community.” I can see it turning. But, right now, while we’re in the midst of it, of what we’re perceiving as cultural decay, it’s hard to recognize.
Nov.29 at 3:17 pm
matt says:
One of the best articles I’ve read on this subject ever.
Nov.29 at 3:17 pm
Ben Osborne says:
To quote the Kanye song Khalid is playing now, ‘man, killing’s some wack shit.’ Thanks for the discussion starter, Vince.
Nov.29 at 3:27 pm
Captain America says:
Agree with the aforementioned, but I hear that Sean hung with some grim people. The sleep with dogs wake up with fleas notion. Right or wrong?
Nov.29 at 3:29 pm
white hot eboy says:
I firmly belief that SLAM is the ONLY place these types of discussions are made readily available to those of us who want and hope the changes in ALL branches of society can make the difference in tolerance and acceptance. It’s hard, but to echo Cheryl, it’s starting to turn.
Nov.29 at 3:32 pm
white hot eboy says:
STF up, Mrs. America. Regardless, does it change the outcome of his passing? Leave that sh*t elsewhere. His girlfriend and his baby were in the same bedroom, if they were both killed would that have made it more acceptable?
Nov.29 at 3:52 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
i gues it depends on how you define grim, america. there have been times in my life in which my associations involved people you would call grim probably. Its’ a complicated issue. Robbing and stealing is a part of the human experience, its been going on since people have had money and desired goods. i won’t pretend, i believe in guns. and weapons and bodyguards and having people around you that u can trust. you know what discourages robbery? Knowing that if you come at someone you might get your ish pushed back. I don’t mean that as a joke or anything either. I’m not a violent dude but i’ll throw mu hands with anybody, i just would rather not. I do my best to squash situations before they escalate. Because the truth is, Mf’s be dyin (excuse the ebonics but i’m sayin’…) and i got too many people counting on me to just check out like that. However, if someone comes into my home well then it’s on. there have been people asking why Taylor had a machete and i’m like he should have had two! trust me,i get that kind of money and i’m putting a sniper on the roof. You think i’m playing?…..
Nov.29 at 3:55 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
It’s not important to bring up Taylor’s background? After all, it’s not like there has been an epidemic of professional athletes being killed in their homes (or anywhere else, for that matter). If Sean Taylor’s shooting WASN’T random, isn’t that something of a big deal? Regardless, I just hope it gets solved.
Nov.29 at 3:56 pm
Captain America says:
W.H.E. if you had a brain larger than an ant’s you would have read my post verbatim. I had asked, idiot, if what “I heard” was “right or wrong”. You have the emotional outburst of a p.m.s. female. Of course it doesn’t make his passing or the potential harm to an innocent girlfriend and infant any more acceptable. You self righteous, sanctimonious turd.
Nov.29 at 3:56 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Taylor apparently had a home security system, but it wasn’t activated. And f a machete, he should have had a couple mastiffs and a Mossberg.
Nov.29 at 3:58 pm
Myles Brown says:
I have no problems with people investigating his background. Besides, it would be part of any thorough investigation to find his killer. But some fools start jumping to the callous conclusion that he deserved it.
Nov.29 at 3:59 pm
Fontaine says:
Materialism in America is extremely strong and a powerful influence. It has warped the mentality of many people, regardless of race, color, age, status. Its not just promoted in the music, but in entertainment period. By the way, when’s the last time you saw a MUSIC video on M(MUSIC)TV? Or has it solely gone to Cribs, Pimp My Ride, and reality TV? Lets wake up. Subtle Soap Operas. Lets wake up.
Nov.29 at 4:01 pm
Captain America says:
Thank’s Khalid, for a reasoned response to my inquiry. I too have had my share and realize the potential danger. I simply wanted to kill a buzz. Russ, there are certain basketball players who have had their share of (some would say, self induced) problems stemming from the cadre of friends they chose to hang with. It doesn’t justify the loss of Sean Taylor nor is anyone attempting to do so.
Nov.29 at 4:02 pm
d.Y. says:
lovely. nice to see how this convo has morphed into an expose on captain america’s sexism (and lack of wit) and how much more guns we should have.
Nov.29 at 4:03 pm
Vince says:
Self-defense is cool and all, but that (to me) is clouding the real issue here and it’s that athletes are being targeted. And there’s a reason Eddy Curry and not Chris Duhon or Nocioni was robbed. D.Y. chooses to turn a blind eye to the cultural element of this trend and call it a class issue. That is convenient, but it is absolutely wrong. This type of criminal activity follows black athletes far more than white athletes, whether that white athlete be an aristocrat or hillbilly. There’s a reason for that.
Nov.29 at 4:03 pm
white hot eboy says:
Capt. C*nt, if “you heard” something and weren’t sure of it’s validity, don’t put it out there. That sh*t may fly at your other favorite website, but the majority (excluding you) of the people here are too intelligent to take “rumors” as gospel. And again, if he knew every fuc*ing low life thug in Dade county, does that still make it “understandable” that the dude was killed in cold-blood in front of his family?
Nov.29 at 4:10 pm
Big L says:
Is this a response to Whitlock’s article?
Nov.29 at 4:12 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Myles: There’s a BIG leap between Taylor being targeted (that prior break-in where someone left a kitchen knife on the bed seems a lot like an unheeded warning now, no?) and Taylor “deserving it.” No one EVER deserves to die that way, except maybe movie villains. And…oh, hell, I can’t even add an ‘and’ this time. At least without drawing the wrath and attention of…nevermind.
Nov.29 at 4:13 pm
mark says:
not sure why the need for the Brett Favre comment unless you are trying to make it a racetopic. Only problem is Brett didn’t roll with those types when he was younger nor does he now so it is not valid. For every Taylor story or Paul Pierce, there are another 10 athletes from the same conditions who cut ties with or never established ties with those types.
Nov.29 at 4:13 pm
Bryan says:
I think bringing up a dude association with a certain set of people is unacceptable. This isn’t a gangster we’re talking about here. He was 24 f*cking years old.Because he was rich people broke into his house and murdered him.Not because of who he was associated with. Well sh*t maybe in a couple of days it will come out that way but until then let the guy rest in piece.This article was one of mourning and discussing a problem that seems to be growing in this country.Sean Taylor was a victim, not a rival gangbanger.The U has a gangster image which is probably where he got that rep and maybe he maintained that by not taking any sh*t off of anybody.But don’t disrespect the guy by saying more or less he had it coming.
Nov.29 at 4:14 pm
Bryan says:
peace*
Nov.29 at 4:15 pm
white hot eboy says:
I’m shocked to say it, but that was pretty well said, man.
Nov.29 at 4:16 pm
Bryan says:
I’m not all “f*ck you”s Eboy. haha.
Nov.29 at 4:17 pm
white hot eboy says:
I’m in the same belief camp as you with this particular issue.
Nov.29 at 4:18 pm
Joel O's says:
Hmm. I’m relatively new to North America - moved to Toronto months after 9/11 - but I’m wondering too, what do you guys think the solution to this is? This being a cultural issue, what really can be done?
Nov.29 at 4:23 pm
Myles Brown says:
I agree about the length of that leap, but the question in between is if Taylor was targeted, what did he do to draw their attention and wrath? As you said, this isn’t the same as the NBA home invasions where the motive was clear, this is an instance of someone breaking in the house leaving a warning and then returning shortly after to finish the job. There was no robbery, and a witness who was in proximity was left alive. It was a hit on Taylor, without question. People are going to ask why and its going to reach a point where some neo-conservative nitwit will invoke the old adage that Cap. America was referring to. If that hasnt already happened.
Nov.29 at 4:24 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
Mastiffs are real Russ. I whole-heartedly co-sign.
Nov.29 at 4:26 pm
d.Y. says:
Vince, maybe you don’t understand the role class plays in race. In this case, criminal activity didn’t “follow” him. Mr Taylor was a VICTIM. When whites are victimized, it doesn’t signify something was wrong with them or their race. If his killers turn out to be white, or asian, would that change your perspective? You present (through anecdotal evidence) that rich Black people have the criminal element around them more than whites. I don’t remember the numbers, but it’s proven that in America there is a larger percentage of Black people below the poverty line than for their white counterparts. Poor people are often surrounded by the criminal element. When a poor person becomes suddenly rich (as is often the case with Black atheletes), that criminal element that is familiar with this person begin scheming. It happens across racial lines. I understand this is an editorial, but next time, please research the subject you’re speaking about.
Nov.29 at 4:26 pm
white hot eboy says:
Joel, it’s so fuc*ing hard to come up with one group of answers that definitvley can solve these issues. It’s better than it was 40 years ago, but maybe it would take another 40 years for it to be a really cohevise mixture of respect, understanding and support of each others beliefs and attitudes. This website’s comments are a pretty good depiction of the things that cause minor flare ups on website. Amplify that by real-life problems and in your face discussions and that’s where the problems still get their heat from.
Nov.29 at 4:29 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
It’s a complex problem, that’s for sure. And while the Taylor murder provides a neat jumping-off point for discussion, I don’t think it represents the leading edge of violence against athletes–especially if this was a personal vendetta of some sort. Pro athletes still drive to games in their Phantoms and Continental GTs, still carry Vuitton bags and wear diamond-encrusted watches. I’m not saying this as an attack on conspicuous consumption (although…) or making a point that nayone deserves to get robbed, or God forbid, murdered. I’m just saying that it hasn’t reached the point where athletes are travelling to games in armored vehicles, surrounding themselves with bodyguards and living in superluxury underground bunkers. Hopefully it never comes to that.
Nov.29 at 4:33 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
A BIG part of the problem is people getting offended way too easily in discussions like this. When someone is murdered (unless it’s a completely random incident like a mugging gone wrong or a gang initiation), you HAVE to look at the victim as well as the assailant–that if you want to come up with any real solutions. Does that make the process more painful? Undoubtedly. But I feel like it’s necessary.
Nov.29 at 4:36 pm
Joel O's says:
Thanks, Eboy. Honestly, before I moved here half of what I knew about the “realness” of North American culture comes from deciphering the then-alien terms I read in SLAM as 15-year old. I know this is a bit off tangent, but I feel that our cultural icons, whether they like it or not, are role models and the onus is on them to set trends that the rest of us will follow. The kings of hip-hop culture have the power to do the right thing. Britney, Paris and Lindsay, in my opinion, have the same responsibility to set trends for young women to follow.
Nov.29 at 4:38 pm
nothin personal says:
No guns whatsoever is a lot better than guns for everyone. You are a lot more inclined to use something that you can acquire easily than if you would need to commit a dosen crimes just to get your hands on it. I guess what I am saying is that there would be less “amateurs” picking a gun and playing “Rambo”, or kids that were handed a gun and sent to do someone’s dirty work.
Nov.29 at 4:39 pm
Cheryl says:
Can I throw a monkey wrench in this sh*t about the “culture” of “these athletes”? What about the fking “culture” and the associations of the head of fkin state and his “cronies”? They used the power of the military to attack a whole freakin country, called their “boys” (Haliburton, et al)in to wreap the harvest of an oil rich nation and murdered a multitude. But, oh woe is me, the world is going to sh*t because of “these athletes”. Jump off that bandwagon, Cap’n. I’m not a big fan of the misogony, nihilistic, gangsterism of some of the music that’s labeled hip hop, but I know for a fact that it ain’t the cause of this “culture of violence” but a reflection (not even the worst reflection, either given my earlier description) of it. I hope you get what I’m saying, cuz some of this made me angry.
Nov.29 at 4:41 pm
white hot eboy says:
Cheryl, that is why you are the queen. I love you so much right now.
Nov.29 at 4:45 pm
Holly MacKenzie says:
-Wow, I haven’t even had time to take this all in and was just scrolling through comments but that imagine Russ gave of athletes having to be escorted to games in armored vehicles and creating these crazy walls between themselves and society just to protect themselves is a scary, scary thought.
-Co-sign Eboy on SLAM being one of the few places so many people from so many diverse backgrounds and cultures can come together and discuss and try to learn not only solutions but the reality of others situations.
-I read Kahlid’s comments on his past affiliations and his stance on protecting oneself and it just drives it home that I am most certainly not in a place to speak about whether I agree with guns and arming oneself because the things that were mentioned in his post are so beyond anything I have ever had to see in my lifetime. I have never felt threatened in my existence, for who I was, or wasn’t. I have never had to truly worry about a friend of loved one coming into harm’s way on their way home from school or because of the people they associate with. This is so enlightening to hear the different life experiences and see why we are all coming at this from such difficult angles. Angles that hopefully, rather than divide us will allow us to ensure every stone is uncovered as we each come together to work our ways through this.
-I need more time to read, reflect and then comment on my real thoughts on all of this. I will say that no one deserves to be a victim of violence like this, and all of my thoughts and prayers go out to his girlfriend and baby daughter who will now grow up without a father and for what? A father, friend and a son is gone and people have the nerve to insinuate that he deserves it because of those people that he may have met along the way. It is a lot more complicated than that and it will continue to happen until answers can be brought to light.
Nov.29 at 4:46 pm
Holly MacKenzie says:
Cheryl…you just spoke for my heart. Thank you.
Nov.29 at 4:48 pm
Holly MacKenzie says:
Also, Vincent, thank you for this piece. It was beautifully written and so importantly relevant, even beyond Mr. Taylor.
Nov.29 at 4:48 pm
Aaron says:
While certain aspects of Sean’s background might be relevant to his killing, not everything is relevant. On the day he got shot, as he was dying in the hospital, ESPN decided to run through a long laundry list of every negative thing he’s ever done that’s been reported on. The kid’s in the hospital dying and Dana Jacobsen is talking about a DUI conviction that got thrown out and a bunch of late-game hits, and a bunch of other bulls**t that has nothing to do with the actual story. At this point, I think you can just let some of that stuff go. I think the problem with a lot of the coverage is that people feel the need to fill up airtime and provide instant analysis, but its really impossible to have any sort of intelligent discussion about this yet, because nobody knows ANYTHING, including the police who have actually been investigating.
Nov.29 at 4:52 pm
Gerard Himself says:
Great read indeed.
Nov.29 at 5:01 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
I am in no way condoning the actions of the current political regime (I’ve voted against them as many times as possible), and I consider the war in Iraq to be reprehensible. That said, isn’t talking about that just more finger pointing? There’s a huge difference between a 24-year old being shot while serving in Fallujah and a 24-year old being shot in his own bedroom, is there not? It’s not like the violence in this country started when the Bush administration took power. I kind of feel like that the country as a whole (black or white, poor or rich) continually pushes this consumerist culture where the most important thing is acquisition. And then they push it further with lotteries and the like, where hey, everyone should be able to be rich without doing a damn thing. Is that really the American dream? Reward without responsibility? Because that’s what it looks like. If every single person in this country paid a little less attention to what the next man has and a little more attention to how they could better themselves (I’m talking EVERYBODY, from the White House to the crack house), things would be a lot better. Wouldn’t they?
Nov.29 at 5:08 pm
Cheryl says:
of course, russ. i just get my panties in a bunch when the conversation turns to the “tsk, tsk, tsk, those people and their affiliations”. my first comment on this post mentioned the personal responsibility of everyone to rethink their value system, in light of the problems we have as a society. you and i are on the same page, i think.
Nov.29 at 5:10 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
If that page says “Bush and Cheney are a**holes and murder is bad in any form,” yes we are.
Nov.29 at 5:11 pm
Holly MacKenzie says:
I’m on board with that, Russ.
Nov.29 at 5:14 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
dy, Åmerica has a larger percentage on a national level of Blacks below the poverty line no doubt. But in real numbers, there are more poor Whites on welfare, WiC, Medicaid, food Stamps etc. I’m talking real mathematics here, not perception and percentages. Blacks are concentrated in the big city metro area’s and the ruural south. there aren’t many poor black folks in Alaska, Nebraksa, Wyoming, Hawaii, Utah, etc. I’m not making this a racial issue because i think its bigger than that. I just want people to work in facts. This type of stuff reminnds of Ray-Gun’s “welfare queen” inititaive. One of the biggest hustles of all time.
Nov.29 at 5:16 pm
white hot eboy says:
Co-sign the “Russ hates Bush/Cheney/Murder” vote.
Nov.29 at 5:22 pm
albie1kenobi says:
i’d say 99% of us commentors would co-sign what Russ said. i personally didn’t see Captain America say Taylor deserved it, so i’m not sure where all this wrath is coming from (he has a bad track record i know, but still).
that said, brilliant article by Vincent, i feel stupid when i was reading it and smarter after i was done with it. thanks dude.
Nov.29 at 5:28 pm
Bryan says:
He didn’t use those words exactly but in my opinion by saying “well look who he associates with” it’s like saying we should have expected this and so should he.
Nov.29 at 5:30 pm
white hot eboy says:
Yup.
Nov.29 at 5:32 pm
its just alex says:
I think Russ could run for office on that platform. Though the topic is incredibly complicated and tumultous, it’s discussions like this (with the exception of some people who wish to spout ignorance) that improve our cultural understanding as a whole. The diversity of opinions and viewpoints, as Holly pointed out, are truly valuable. Who ever said SLAM was just about basketball?
Nov.29 at 5:33 pm
albie1kenobi says:
true, that’s no denying that. though i don’t think i have the same strong emotion/view on this issue, so maybe i’m just off. (i blame this on work dulling my brain.)
i wonder what krazie bones has to say about this. dude usually have pretty good comments regarding to issues like this.
Nov.29 at 5:34 pm
d.Y. says:
I feel you Khalid, I should have mentioned the metro area thang myself. People in concentrated communities are more prone to violence and crime as well. My intent was to show that it was bigger than race as well, knowing that race is just an excuse to ignore our modern caste systems. The most salient point is russ’s about consumerism.
Nov.29 at 5:42 pm
white hot eboy says:
Where has Krazy Bones been? Probably on some religious retreat changing the world for the better. I hate really, really, realy smart people. (Not really) KB, if you swing by, leave us some knowledge.
Nov.29 at 5:44 pm
Myung says:
My family and I were held at gun point by 4 young black men three months ago (very soon after the Curry and Walker incidents). They broke into our home at 1 AM. We were targeted because we were Asians (more than a half dozen Asian homes were broken into in the Atlanta area during that same week). I keep hearing about how this Taylor incident was about race or about his background (CNN is always on play in the background where I work). What about my family? We are very much not black. The issue isn’t race or fame; the issue is “the rise in home invasions.”
Nov.29 at 5:44 pm
Myung says:
It’s an extremely dangerous development in our society; people don’t care about regular Joe’s like you and me, but at least when it happens to a Walker or Curry or Taylor, the news will cover it for more than 20 seconds on the local news. I can’t begin to describe to you the horror and nightmares that my family and I went through and continue to go through because of our experience. I thank God every day that we only lost material possessions and not our lives. I feel for Sean Taylor’s friends and family, and I know exactly what Eddy Curry and Antoine Walker went through (my feet and hands were bound together while a guy pointed a gun at my head and trashed my room and stole my laptop, among other things). But while I agree with most of the what this article states, I don’t think it’s just athletes being targeted; like I said, “home invasions” are the issue, not “athletes” or even “black athletes” being targeted.
Nov.29 at 5:44 pm
John E. Sanford says:
All I can say is RIP Sean Taylor. And for the Whitlocks and Skip Baylesses of the world, I think they need to let the facts be sorted out before making their sordid conclusions. As has been mentioned on this board, there is going to be no easy way to change people’s mindsets. It’s easy just to say this race of people or that race of people need to change their perceptions and how they live, but this world has always been full of evil. The so called world leaders are going to give a damn about anybody being killed because they are going to make their billions and not be affected. We all just have to do our part and truly give our best, I know that’s what I’m trying to do. Great post Vince.
Nov.29 at 5:46 pm
Myung says:
I’m glad SLAMonline provides a forum where real issues can be discussed. Let me tell you guys… once you’ve had a gun pointed to your head, life takes on a whole new meaning (if anyone’s had to deal with such a similar experience, I’m sure you’d agree with me).
Nov.29 at 5:50 pm
MoYooBuIuGuuPvEvNvIvS says:
never leave the crib without a murder weapon
Nov.29 at 5:56 pm
d.Y. says:
thanks for your perspective Myung. very appreciated
Nov.29 at 5:56 pm
Myles Brown says:
I’ve actually had a piece pulled on me, but never within the walls of my own home. I can’t even imagine how that must feel. Glad you’re safe Myung, and I hope your entire family can make a complete recovery from such a horrifying experience.
Nov.29 at 5:56 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
Sorry to hear that Myung.
Nov.29 at 5:58 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Myung, if you were “targeted because you were Asians” (your words) doesn’t that mean race is very much a part of the issue?
Nov.29 at 5:58 pm
albie1kenobi says:
sh!t Myung i’m glad you are alright. that’s some frightening sh!t. was the breakfast next day the best meal you’ve ever had like Tyler Durden said? (half jokingly here) i can’t even imagine what i’d feel. i’m sure it’d put everything of your life in proper perspective.
Nov.29 at 6:00 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
And while we’re in the confessions part, I was once robbed at gunpoint on the steps of the house I was living in when I lived in Wilmington, Delaware. Meanwhile I’ve lived in NYC now for round about 10 years and I’ve never even seen a gun here. Go figure. *knocks on wood*
Nov.29 at 6:05 pm
H to the izzo says:
Bottom line is that there is no way to justify a murder.And there’s no way to justify murder by the victims associations and affiliation.In saying that a persons history must be investigated to help to understand how something like that would happen but it in no way justifies the murder.Taylor wasn’t the first and won’t be the last,things need to change but probably won’t.There’s so many murders that affect so many people that won’t even show up on local news.Recently a guy I went to school with was hit with a hammer and died.It was murder and no media outlet over here gave it any mention.It’s the way it is.
Nov.29 at 6:06 pm
Holly MacKenzie says:
Gosh, I feel so beyond sheltered and grateful for not ever seeing/experiencing violence. Thank God you all were okay and are here to tell your tales. It is crazy scary to think of the people everyday who are not as lucky. Damn.
Nov.29 at 6:08 pm
Myung says:
http://www.11alive.com/news/article_news.aspx?storyid=103083
Nov.29 at 6:12 pm
Myung says:
Russ, when I said we were targeted because we were Asian, I stated it because I’m quoting the DeKalb (that’s my county) detectives I met with (more than 10 of them, during separate interviews) after the incident; they said an organized crime ring specifically targeting Asian homes was being focused on in their investigation.
Nov.29 at 6:16 pm
Myung says:
That being said, what I’m saying is, regardless of what happened to us as Asians or what happened to famous black athletes or if this happened to white people or ANY people for that matter, the issue should not be race. THAT is what I’m saying. I didn’t point out the fact that Asians were targeted to bring sympathy to my case; I was merely pointing out a fact in our particular investigation (I thought someone as seemingly intelligent as yourself, Russ, could figure that out without having to try to find some sort of contradiction in my statements). A lot of people in the media are making this a race issue when I believe the bigger issue should be the fact that home invasions are on the rise.
Nov.29 at 6:21 pm
Myung says:
Russ, I’m glad you made it through your incident in Deleware. I guess we now have something else in common besides our love for basketball and high end sneakers (mad jealous of you for getting to be a part of the XX3 preview). Take care, brother.
Nov.29 at 6:21 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
yes home invasions are on the rise. i can’t believe how bold people are. You gotta to be crazy, really desperate or drugged up to do that. Murder is terrible and tragic, but for those who break in….
Nov.29 at 6:23 pm
Myung says:
And Holly (and others), I’m glad people like you haven’t been through these sort of things. Believe me, I wouldn’t wish what happened to us on my worst enemies, and I mean that. The fact that people like Eddy Curry, Antoine Walker, and myself (that’s the only time you’ll see us all in one sentence) are alive to talk about it is a blessing. Prayers go out to the Taylor family.
Nov.29 at 6:27 pm
H to the izzo says:
I think the issue of race and religion for that matter will always overshadow and block attention from the issue that could well be the real problem
Nov.29 at 6:31 pm
Myung says:
Correct, Izzo. The fact that this happened to a famous black athlete “made” it a “black” issue. It also made it a “sports” issue, which is why the WWFollower is playing it up like it’s a sports story. If this happened to you or me or anyone on this page (SLAM writers excluded, since they’re still well-known), it’d be a 30 second spot on the local news. I’m not cheapening what happened to Taylor; it IS a tragedy, undoubtedly. I’m just pointing out what we all know to be true; a story is only a story (as far as the media goes) if it sells.
Nov.29 at 6:34 pm
albie1kenobi says:
i’m also more than grateful that i’ve never been in situation like that, and i agree that murder is NEVER justified. however there’s a point i always wonder about, so i’d just throw it out there:
when your life isn’t worth anything because you have nothing and nobody cares about you, why would you care about what other people’s life? i feel this is the “no way out” mentality that a lot of below-poverty-line people have, and how do we fix that? by putting more resource into those communities. but of course our government wouldn’t do that, they just want to keep the mass dumb and hope they kill each off. (i was on a business trip to the detroit area last year, and a worker there told me that they were closing down schools and police stations coz of funding.)
Nov.29 at 6:41 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Myung, I’m just saying that it’s foolish to not consider race to be a part of this whole thing. (By “this whole thing” I mean “pretty much everything.”) And yeah, you can look in the Post or the Daily News any day and find plenty of half-inch accounts of the end of a young person’s life. Where’s the outrage over those? It’s funny to me that one murder–just because the victim was well-known–can bring about so much hand-wringing when hundreds of people just like him (except for the NFL part) are killed every day in cities across the country. That said, though, if it starts more of a dialogue, I’m not complaining. But will this really make any difference? I’m afraid it won’t. I mean, it’s been 16 years since “Boyz N The Hood” (how scary is that?) and it seems to me there are still a lot of kids (both black AND white) who’d rather be Doughboy than Tre. Jay-Z is selling millions of copies of ‘American Gangster’ (once again, to black AND white kids), and I’m not even sure if Public Enemy has a record deal anymore. Preaching positivity is all well and good, but is anybody even listening?
Nov.29 at 6:46 pm
H to the izzo says:
Write a book,Russ.
Nov.29 at 6:47 pm
Myung says:
Good words, Russ.
Nov.29 at 6:54 pm
Michael Tillery says:
Very insightful piece Vincent. I’ve written and discussed this ad nauseam on TSF so I really don’t have anything to offer. I will say this: What’s irritating is the rehashing of the same damn arguments when something like this occurs. Someone offer some solutions gdamnit!
Nov.29 at 6:59 pm
albie1kenobi says:
because it’s easy to discuss and hard to act, just like everything else in life.
Nov.29 at 7:00 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Izzo: I probably will someday, but I don’t think that would be the topic. For starters, I’m no sociologist. And secondly, why would anyone listen to me? I grew up as just another sheltered suburban (there were probably all of 10 minority students in my high school) middle-class white kid who listened to “It Takes a Nation of Millions…” for YEARS before I had any idea what the f*ck they were really talking about. I was blessed enough to be raised by parents who loved me and provided for me, who made sure I learned the basics even when I wasn’t particularly interested in listening to them. But I was also fortunate enough to grow up somewhere where violence WASN’T the norm, where extreme poverty more or less didn’t exist. I was taught that the police and other authority figures were to be respected, and they didn’t do anything to dissuade me from those beliefs. I was never stopped for driving my car in the wrong neighborhood, or followed around a store as I shopped. More or less, I was a child of privilege (not like a Hilton sister, but you know what I mean) and I can’t sit here and tell other people that, ‘hey you’re looking at this all wrong.’ Not on this board, and certainly not in a book. God forbid.
Nov.29 at 7:03 pm
Myles Brown says:
How do you come up with a sensible answer to senselessness?
Nov.29 at 7:05 pm
Jukai says:
This article is probably the best written piece I’ve ever read on slamonline. On the other hand, I’m relatively disappointed with some of these responses. There’s so much blame going on here with media and government and society… I think a lot of blame just has to be put on people themselves. I know a kid from a rich neighborhood, lives on the south shore of Long Island, all-state lacross player a few off from all-american… plus all-county football player, and if he had focused on it, probably woulda had some basketball accolades too. Always whooped my ass in hoops even if I was on. Got hooked up drugs and now he’s failing outta hofstra. He makes money by dealing drugs to middle schoolers and high schoolers. Stopped hanging out with him when he threw someone out of his car (as it was going 40) when the guy tried to grab his drugs he was selling. I know another kid who was raised by his mother cause his father was in prison for dealing drugs. Born in the lower income areas of Queens, he barely made it into college and graduated in three years, and is making more money in computers than I have ever dreamed. Did the media or the government have anything to do with these kids? Was it rap music that effected their lives in anyways? I’m sure it don’t help, but in the end it’s a persons choice. The blame’s on them.
Nov.29 at 7:05 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Ask Stephon Marbury? Oh wait, that’s the opposite.
Nov.29 at 7:08 pm
Jukai says:
Also, you gotta look at Taylor’s past and the people he hangs out with. Him hanging out with the lower dredges of the community don’t make his death any less tragic. But it does help solve a murder. That should be the most important thing.
Nov.29 at 7:08 pm
H to the izzo says:
Russ:Don’t people who had a sheltered suburban life like yourself have very successful TV shows where people believe all they say as gospel?Also every book that I read which dealt with sociology were all pretty much the same with only slight differences,there would be no point.Anyway write about what you know-basketball or BMX(not sure what its actual name is but your blog on it is great and I know nothing about it).I’m betting that you could do better than Bill Simmons any day.
Nov.29 at 7:08 pm
Jukai says:
Gosh, there was like seven more responses to this subject as I was writing that up.
Nov.29 at 7:10 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Parents play (or at least should play) a HUGE role. Way more than music or movies or sneaker commercials. I think a lot of what makes a person a certain way is established at a very young age, and at that point the parents should be the biggest influence in a child’s life. If you grow up in a situation where your parents don’t care about you (and if you don’t have grandparents or older siblings to fill that role), isn’t it likely that you’d grow up to be a person who doesn’t care about anyone else? (Obviously there are exceptions, but those exceptions are usually exceptional.)
Nov.29 at 7:11 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Izzo: Thanks again for the kind words. If only I had as much confidence in my own abilities, haha. I appreciate it though, really.
Nov.29 at 7:17 pm
H to the izzo says:
Anytime,Russ.Your parents point is very true,todays culture is often used as a scapegoat for a parents inablility to guide their children.What kind of parents you have directly affects the relationships you have in the future and what kind of person you become.What was that poem by Philip Larkin that started with “Your parents can f*ck you up…”.Less censorship,more parenting classes.
Nov.29 at 7:25 pm
Jukai says:
Russ, that’s the damn truth
Nov.29 at 7:26 pm
nothin personal says:
Jukai: I know a guy that smoked two packs of cigarettes for sixty year and never had a heart attack or lung cancer. I also know a girl that never even tried to smoke, nobody in her close enviroment smoked, and she died from lung cancer at age 17. Does that mean that smoking isn’t causing lung cancer?
Nov.29 at 7:27 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
It’s funny, because nowadays it seems that most products for children are aimed at making parenting unnecessary. Don’t play a game with your kid or God forbid have a conversation with him/her, just plop him/her down in front of the TV or internets and go about your business. Then all of a sudden you’re wondering why little Billy has a lip ring and says he hates you. It’s unfortunate that parents spend more time working in order to provide those things instead of playing a larger role in molding who their children become. (It’s also a problem that everything is so expensive nowadays that often both parents HAVE TO work when parenting is a job in and of itself.) Everyone wants and expects everything to be easy (MegaMillions! The Easy button! Domino’s delivers!), but raising a kid is hard work. (Or so I hear. I’ve got two little nephews but no kids of my own to the best of my knowledge.)
Nov.29 at 7:32 pm
Michelle says:
I frequent TSF site. We have had much conversation on this subject. First I’d like to say I enjoyed the article. Second we need to find solutions as a society.Third the problem with the media is everytime a young black athlete gets into trouble it’s highlighted like a mini series.Playing all day everyday. Many young people do stupid things. Mr Taylor’s death was tragic and his memory should be respected. Let the police do their work. I saw a terrible home invasion on MSNBC involving a bar owner in Miami. The guys broke into the house and killed 3 people including 2 women who did not know the killers. This also occured in a Miami suburb. So everyone needs to relax honor Mr Taylor’s memory and let the police do their work.
Nov.29 at 7:35 pm
H to the izzo says:
When little Billy says he hates you and starts to rebel e.t.c,its always the music that he’s listening to’s fault,or there’s too much violence on TV or blaming video games for a child rebelling.All this without even looking at their relationship with their kid,do they know what he’s interested in?Do they know any of his friends name?Do they even care?People talk about accountability when it comes to politicians but a lot more parents need to be held accountable.Your children are not accessories o shoppertunities.
Nov.29 at 7:35 pm
nothin personal says:
The American sream is a damn lie. And a cruel one, too. I hate that it’s taking over everywhere, nowadays.
Nov.29 at 7:35 pm
Jukai says:
No, actually that’s my damn point, Nothin Personal. It’s YOUR choice to stay away from cigarettes. It’s not the medias fault that I used to smoke a pack every two days. It wasn’t the governments either. It was my fault. Cigarettes were the choice that lead to the lung cancer. Just like it’s your choice the way you live that leads to the problems, and the fast death.
Nov.29 at 7:36 pm
Jukai says:
H to the Izzo, I rarely agree with whatever odd basketball knowledge you’re spouting, but that was beautiful.
Nov.29 at 7:37 pm
albie1kenobi says:
Jukai, of course everyone is reponsible for their own actions, and the media, gov’t, society don’t directly affect those lives, but they set up situations and mentalities for failures.
imagine there’s a basketball game where one team has a -40 points handicap, and in that game, if you make a shot behind half court line, you get 10 points, which applies to both team. when you are behind that much, you’d take the chance with those 10 point baskets. it is possible the handicapped team can win, but the chance is slim. (the team that starts with zero point could shoot the 10 point shots too, but with such low percentage, they are not likely going to take them.)
Nov.29 at 7:37 pm
nothin personal says:
*dream
Nov.29 at 7:40 pm
H to the izzo says:
Jukai:Thanks….I think
Nov.29 at 7:42 pm
Jukai says:
you’re overblowing that, albei1kenobi. I know the differences in future potential are vast growing up in West Phili than growing up on the south shore of Long Island, but is that the medias fault? Is this what society dictates, or is there slums in all cultures? I think the government can be held accountable the most, but in this world we have other issues to deal with. We can’t just give all our money to raising poverty. I really agree with Russ here, in the end, I think it’s all how yer raised
Nov.29 at 7:47 pm
nothin personal says:
Jukai: My point is that if you look at the percentages, environment and influences and a lot of other stuff matter. I won’t support the “tabula rasa” stuff, but a lot of times, freedom of choice is just an illusion. When you see 99% of the people falling down a cliff, then somebody has to figure what’s driving them, and make sure they KNOW what they are doing and why. That’s the reason there is so much fuss about advertising cigarettes in Europe. Eu is trying to make sure that if you smoke, you know what you are doing. And believe me, it’s hard to change common perception of decades.
Nov.29 at 7:51 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
But it’s definitely true that the starting line is set at different points for different people. That’s why it’s impossible to say ‘oh, just change this and this and this.’ If only our government would be half as concerned about levelling the playing field the best they could instead of bringing, um, ‘democracy’ to a country halfway around the world. And don’t even get me started on the educational system. When the focus is on getting kids to pass tests rather than actually EDUCATING (novel thought, that) them, there’s something seriously wrong. Barring some sort of miraculous transformation of this country, I don’t plan on ever having children of my own.
Nov.29 at 7:51 pm
nothin personal says:
Perhaps you want to take a trip to sweden buddy. Just because some rich guys in the US want you to believe social care is daydreming, doesn’t mean it’s true.
Nov.29 at 7:53 pm
albie1kenobi says:
i’m not putting up coherent thoughts today, but i just want to say media and goverment can create a more positive and conducive environment. and i’m 100% with the parents being reponsible POV. i’ve been telling anyone who’d listen that there should be a license to have kids. there are way too many irresponsible and unfit parents out there polluting our planet.
Nov.29 at 7:54 pm
Jukai says:
No one is falling off a cliff, Nothin Personal. In the end, its everyones choice. I’m not saying there ain’t factors, but I am downplaying this whole ’society and government’ are to blame issue. if anything, Russ is got the point that it’s all about who raises you and what values you learn when yer a kid.
Nov.29 at 7:57 pm
Jukai says:
Sorry guys, this whole ‘government leveling the playing field’ is really hard to do. How do you drag a city out of recesses? I live in Rochester, a horrible dying city, right outside of Buffalo, a surprisingly worse city. I can tell you, no matter how much money is put into these cities, it’s ain’t gonna amount to jack. I’m not denying this unlevel playing field theory, I’m saying it’s no ones fault for the way things are.
Nov.29 at 7:58 pm
H to the izzo says:
There is very few places in the world that have a great or even good education system.Over here,if your a teacher your first job is to be a babysitter and you might get to teach someone something on a good day.Truth be told there are really no answers to these questions and there’s definitely not one solution.A change in thinking will have to change first,I for one can’t see that happening at all.
Nov.29 at 8:01 pm
nothin personal says:
It’s a long conversation, and I’ve discussed those things with people ranging from communist to neo-phasist and all the in between varieties. Everytime, you learn something new, somebodies POV gets you thinking. This time though, its 2 pm in my time zone, so I got to go! Keep it up.
Nov.29 at 8:05 pm
Jukai says:
I just can’t believe how a basketball website can generate such intelligent conversation. It’s quite incredible!
Nov.29 at 8:14 pm
albie1kenobi says:
which is why we all love this site so much, Jukai.
and all of these dicussions are good, but as we can all tell, there really just isn’t any quick fix to societal problems in general. there’s always more than a few causes as everything’s interrelated. there are factors that affect more heavily than others, but it’s still gonna take a lot to change the mindset of the mass.
Nov.29 at 8:14 pm
2shadesofbeauty says:
Great article. Very well-written. It’s nice to see an entertainment magazine such as SLAM with articles that don’t just entertain their readers,but that also tries to educate them on some real issues in our society. We are losing so many of our young men to all these false foundations they are basing their lives upon such as money, jewlery, and other flashy things that mean nothing once their life is over. We need to teach these young men to pursue a more influential goal that will leave the world a legacy after their gone.
Nov.29 at 8:17 pm
white hot eboy says:
It’s nice that this small group of people can shed light on their feelings though and maybe if each of us can remember these conversations, we can be a jump off point for the changes that need to be made.
Nov.29 at 8:42 pm
Black Naga says:
Don’t get caught up in race so much…it’s little more than a smokescreen to conceal the criminal endeavors of the wealthy as they engage in the looting of global resources…all the money that is spent on waging war in the middle east to meet our consumptive demand for energy is leaving relatively little resources for our national infrastructure…race baiting is a diversionary tool of reactionaries…at the end of the day we are all working class people…DON’T SUPPORT ANY POLITICAL LEADER WHO ENDORSES THE USE OF WAR AS AN INSTRUMENT OF POLICY…YOU ARE SIGNING YOUR OWN DEATH WARRANT BECAUSE IT LOWERS YOUR STANDARD OF LIVING VIA CORPORATE WELFARE FOR THE RICH…NO ONE IS FREE IF EVEN ONE PERSON IS OPPRESSED.
Nov.29 at 8:44 pm
Holly MacKenzie says:
Russ, thanks for bringing up the education issue. The problems with the education system is something that hits me really hard. As a student who loves to learn, and will probably be engaged in academia for the rest of my life, I really have a hard time with the way high schools are evaluating and educating their students. The tests, expectations and teaching rubric is beyond backwards and these kids are struggling to make it through and many that do, do so without learning anything of any meaning along the way. I am from a small town and my high school was terrible. Truly, it was ranked the second worst in my entire province, I am a product of out of date teaching methods and standardized tests and while I made it out okay, many of my fellow classmates did not and are now in late teens or early 20’s with 2 or 3 children and will never go on to live their dreams or get out of their town. My town was a small town, completely white, and while there was a drug problem there was definitely not a violence issue, but the problem remains the same. Without proper rearing from the parents or parental figures and without a proper education, youth are growing up without growing and expanding their minds to be able to make the decisions necessary to keep them on the right path. While the examples from my hometown are sad, thankfully they are not tragic like those mentioned in many of the instances above, but it just goes to show how integral the standard of education is in shaping youth. I know what you mean about not wanting to bring children into the world. It is a scary thought and definitely not something I would even want to consider dealing with for at least another 10 years. It just seems there is so much to overcome for so many children today. For every child that has a great, stable home and parental figure, how many don’t? Like you said above, if you grow up your entire life without someone giving a crap about you and without anyone instilling the value of human life, chances are you won’t place any value on your own life, let alone the life of the guy down the street.
Nov.29 at 8:47 pm
Holly MacKenzie says:
I probably just reiterated comments already made by everyone, but this whole topic is so interesting to me. From all of my history and sociology classes, it always does strike me how the focal point always seems to automatically go to race more so than class. This piece just has my mind spinning and I am loving this conversation.
Nov.29 at 8:57 pm
albie1kenobi says:
that was elegantly written, Holly. you said it 10000x better than what i could have said. regardless of the issue, education is the most important thing. the have-a-lot try to keep the have-not uneducated so they don’t have a voice and reasoning to position themselves better, because the have-a-lot want to keep everything to themselves. if you don’t let them see the value in themselves, they wouldn’t value anything, plain and simple.
Nov.29 at 9:11 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Good stuff, Holly. The way I look at it, people being aware of the problems and being able (and willing) to discuss them rationally is a start. Provided it’s an actual dialogue–there are way too many lecturers already.
Nov.29 at 9:30 pm
Holly MacKenzie says:
Thanks Russ and Albie. I agree that it is all about the willingness to both give and take information as we attempt to navigate the slippery slope that always comes when dealing with culture/class/race. It is always my immediate reaction to say I don’t agree with guns, etc, but then conversations like this one make me realize, of course I would say that. I have lived 22 years without EVER having seen a real gun of any kind. I have never been threatened nor even felt like I needed to protect myself. Then there is also the “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” way of thinking that comes into my mind too. I am babbling here, but my point is, the admissions from yourself, Khalid, Myung and others make me realize those of us in society who have never felt/experienced the things that you have cannot dictate what should or shouldn’t happen next. At least not as though it is a clear-cut issue. It is not, and the biggest problems come when people who are on the outside looking in, touching the problem with a 10-foot pole try to throw around their brilliant ideas for change. By being so far removed and using that 10-foot pole, the surface is barely being scratched and the actual reality of the situation is being shown murky at best. While I appreciate these discussions and dialogues as they teach me so much about the world, and my own experiences as they allow me to look inside and challenge my own beliefs and “norms”, it is so frustrating when we succumb to lecturing and talking down to one another. That is going to get us nowhere. When we see/experience someone being ignorant because they are unaware, rather than take that opportunity to build yourself up and sound smart, try to pass on that wealth of information. Like Russ said waaay above, if only we could all stop focusing on the man beside us and instead try to be the best that we all can be, that is where we will begin to make improvements, small as they may be. Okay! off of my soapbox now.
Nov.29 at 9:55 pm
albie1kenobi says:
it’s indeed a give and take attitude that both sides need to have. heard about the UK teacher being jailed for naming a teddy bear Muhammad in Sudan? it’s this kind of intolerance (in this case cultural/religious difference) that’s causing all sorts of problem in this world.
Nov.29 at 11:22 pm
Ben Osborne says:
I’m pretty sure I know who Black Naga is, and I really like what he said (amongst other great comments on here).
Nov.30 at 11:08 am
Jared says:
is black naga immortal technique?
Nov.30 at 11:32 am
Michael Tillery says:
If anyone wants to continue this great discussion, then come over to thestartingfive.wordpress.com for Friday Fire. Real rap, I’m tired of all the talk. There’s a whole lot of work needing to be done right now. We need to educate ourselves as well as create more social responsibility.
Nov.30 at 1:19 pm
Allenp says:
The idea that the knife was a warning is a fallacy to me. Why would you leave a warning if you were coming to kill someone. If you were coming to kill someone, why would you only fire two random shots, one of which was only fatal because it hit an artery in the leg. It seems much more likely that someone wanted to get at a large stash of money that they believed Taylor had at his home. Since we know athletes and other rich people do keep stashs of money and jewels at their homes, it makes sense that somebody would break in and then force Taylor to reveal this location, or open a safe. I’m amazed that nobody has posited this in the mainstream media. The only reason Taylor wasn’t subdued was because he approached the burglar with a weapon that then caused the robber to freak out. The idea that his prior cases, which were either dropped or greatly reduced, some how played a role in his death, or would help the media find nuances in his death doesn’t fly with me. What it seems like to me is a standard media practice to list someone’s past misdeeds when something happens to them, and then allow opinion columnists to make leaps of judgement using that information. That’s what occurred in this instance.
Dec.3 at 9:27 pm
Brian says:
Why is it so difficult to acknowledge that Taylor, and so many other athletes (black white or rainbow) are not being targeted because they have money. Yes this is part of it, but what is the percentage of these “targeted” rich folk that have ties to criminally inclined people? I’d say it’s high. It is not unreasonable to say that Taylor had friends with questionable intentions and it was most likely those friends or people associated with or enemies of those people who killed him. Simple statistics would say that if his friends/lifestyle was not a factor then there wouldn’t be an overwhelming percentage of troubled pasts athletes getting into trouble or being targeted. I’m in no way justifying or blaming him for his death but there is a connection and you have to be blind to think otherwise.