Forward Thinking
There are more All-Star forwards in the Western Conference than there are stars in the sky.
by Ryan Jones
So I’m working on a story on a prominent Western Conference forward, which may or may not be for the next cover of SLAM (Mystery? Intrigue? Yeah, I know how to keep you sheep interested), and I start looking at his stats. And then I start thinking about stats for other Western Conference forwards. And then I start thinking about the 2007 NBA All-Star Game, and which of these Western Conference forwards might earn their way into the game. And then smoke starts coming out of my ears.
Yo, this sh*t is CRAZY.
I know this isn’t a new topic among hoop fiends like ourselves. We’ve been talking for a few years now about all the great threes and fours in the WC, and it’s made for some interesting debates. But now? It’s worse than ever. If you’ve been paying any attention the first month of this season (and unless you found this link by accident, I’m guessing you have been), you have come to the same realization I have: There is not enough room on the Western Conference All-Star team for all the All-Star forwards in the Western Conference.
Really, it’s not even close.
Here, see for yourself — and I’ll go in alphabetical order so no one thinks I’m playing favorites. As if such a thing were possible. I’m a journalist. Nevermind.
Top-20 League rankings in parenthesis:
CARMELO ANTHONY: 31.1 ppg (1st), 51% FG, 4.8 rpg, 4.1 apg, 2.1 spg (3rd)
RON ARTEST: 16.6 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 3.3 apg, 3.1 spg (1st)
CARLOS BOOZER: 21.9 ppg (19th), 58% FG, 12.7 rpg (2nd), 3.3 apg
ELTON BRAND: 17.3 ppg, 51% FG, 10.3 rpg (8th), 1.9 bpg (12th), 38.6 mpg (14th)
TIM DUNCAN: 22.8 ppg (17th), 57% FG, 10.9 rpg (5th), 1.4 bpg
KEVIN GARNETT: 21.5 ppg (20th), 52% FG, 11.9 rpg (5th), 3.4 apg, 2.1 bpg (9th), 1.6 spg (17th)
RASHARD LEWIS: 22.9 ppg (16th), 50% FG, 42% 3-point FG, 6.4 rpg, 1.6 spg (15th), 39.8 mpg (9th)
SHAWN MARION: 18.7 ppg, 50% FG, 8.8 rpg, 1.8 spg (9th), 1.5 bpg (10th), 39.9 mpg (8th)
DIRK NOWITZKI: 26.5 ppg (9th), 52% FG, 10.4 rpg (9th), 38.0 mpg (18th)
LAMAR ODOM: 19.6 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 4.6 apg, 40.3 mpg (7th)
ZACH RANDOLPH: 25.1 ppg (13th), 10.2 rpg (12th)
PEJA STOJAKOVIC: 17.8 ppg, 41% 3-point FG
DAVID WEST: 17.4 ppg, 8.3 rpg
OK. First thing, obviously, is that I’m not saying all those guys (the Hornets’ duo in particular) are All-Stars, or even worthy of serious consideration. But both Peja and DWest are off to great starts, giving their team exactly what they need from their positions, so it’s worth having them in the conversation. We’ll say the same for Andrei Kirilenko, an All-Star in ‘04 and a perennial contender for a coaches’ invite with his all-around statistical sickness (as I write this, he’s third in the League in blocks). And of course, there’s no mention of Pau Gasol, who averaged 20, 9 and 5 in making the ASG last season, then followed that up by taking MVP honors at the World Championship. Think he’d have a decent shot this year? Yes. Yes, he would. But, for All-Star purposes, their part in this convo ends here.
Meaning we’ve only got 11 more to go. Great.
Start with the relatively easy cuts. Ron Ron likes to think of himself as an MVP candidate and the best all-around player in the L, and he’s had moments that made us wonder if he wasn’t right. This year, solid numbers all the way around, including the League lead in steals. He’s been an All-Star before, but this year he’s not quite that dude.
Um, OK… now what? Yeah, told you this was hard. Maybe the move now is to go with the guys whose presence in this conversation comes as a surprise, the ones who haven’t been in the perennial All-Star mix in their careers. Like, say, Rashard Lewis. Are the numbers a fraud? When you’re only the second best player on a bad team with a rep for not defending anyone, do you even merit a mention? Well, yeah, with those numbers, I’d say you do. And he was an All-Star two years ago. But is he gonna take a spot from any of the guys I haven’t mentioned yet? No. But that just makes this thing crazier, because in a lot of years, and at a lot of positions, Shard’s digits are A-S worthy.
Lamar Odom? A sentimental choice, a triple-double threat, a dude who’s putting up nice numbers for a surprisingly strong LakeShow. Again, All-Star stats, but not in this conference, and not this year. Meaning we’ve already axed a couple of player with worthy numbers… and we still have eight to go. Assuming you put five forwards on the roster, that means three more guys can skip the craps tables in February and spend a nice few days with the fam in the Bahamas instead. Here’s who I’m guessing those three guys are:
Zach Randolph. Yes, Zach the Gangsta Maniac is averaging 25 and 10, something only Dirk and Yao can claim through the first month of the season. It says here that Dirk and Yao are complete locks for the All-Star Game. So why not Zach? ‘Cause he’s on a bad, small-market team, meaning the fans won’t vote him in, and he’s apparently a lunatic, meaning the coaches probably won’t put him on, either. Duh. Sorry, homie. Please don’t hurt me.
Elton Brand. Last year, EB was All-NBA second team, an easy All-Star pick, and even a borderline MVP choice. He’s still dope, but this year, with this kind of comp, he’s not quite dope enough. Our apologies to Clipper Nation.
Shawn Mar—no wait. It’s Kevin G—dammit! This is brutal. OK, Do you leave off Matrix, who’s once again in the 20 and 10 neighborhood, is a great defender, plays mad minutes and shoots 50 percent on a good team? Or do you leave off KG, who’s KG? Both of these guys are All-Star regulars, but Kevin is a little more perennial. He’s also a sure-shot Hall of Fame, which Shawn, much as we love him, is not. Dammit!
And that leaves five. Specifically, that leaves Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki and Tim Duncan, without whom it’s sort of hard to imagine having an All-Star Game. And it leaves a couple other guys who are less familiar with this event: yes, Carmelo Anthony and, yes, Carlos Boozer. Both have numbers that are simply to good to ignore. Melo’s on a decent team, which could count against him, and he’s currently leading the League in turnovers, which could DEFINITELY count against him. But then he’s also leading the L in scoring, ripping two steals per game, and shooting over 50 percent. So, finally, your man is gonna get his ticket this year. There’s no way he doesn’t. And ‘Los simply plays for the League’s (so far) best team, and his numbers are dumb, and it’s like his disappearing act last season never happened. Wait, is this a contract year again already? Whatever, dude’s doing it, and the coaches will reward the Sloan army by giving Boozer a bid. Count on it.
Now, just be glad that 6-10 Tracy McGrady is listed as a “guard,” and that Kirilenko’s not playing like he was the past couple years, and that Gasol’s on the chilling list. Otherwise, we might have to play a split squad game, and that would just be confusing.
48 Responses to “Forward Thinking”
Nov.27 at 8:04 pm
next says:
and this is without even considering AMARE! good grief, next year w/ everyone healthy is gonna require a new system. how bout any player, regardless of position, that way, there could be kobe, nash, and t-mac/b. diddy. and 1 yao. remember when c-webb & rasheed were around a few years back to make it ridiculously hard to be a pf in the west? looks like the west is still stacked up since there’s no more centers around and everyone’s a forward.
Nov.27 at 8:25 pm
ABED says:
HOW ABOUT AMARE????!!?
Nov.27 at 8:47 pm
TrippleX says:
guys, amare is listed as a c on the ballot. thank God about that and tmac as a guard… but this yr’s west centres are relatively weak… sorry, but theres yao. and then either amare (still coming back, but should be there by allstar time), brad miller (was injured), memo okur (i dont like him as an allstar, but hes got the most chance out of all of these guys), and marcus camby… i would prefer to go with amare for the backup c cause he came back from knee surgery and u gotta give ur props to my man stat. also, theres gotta be at least 2 phoenix allstars man… but sad thing is nash might not even make it… chris paul, baron davis, kobe bryant, tracy mcgrady, ray allen, this list goes on…
Nov.27 at 8:55 pm
albie1kenobi says:
all i gotta say is, east is going to have a lot of undeserved “all-stars” this year. jamaal magloire anyone?
Nov.27 at 8:55 pm
Chris says:
I think you’ve got to go with the players from winning teams, which leaves out Z.Bo, KG, and Rashard. Sure their numbers are good, and sure Duncan, Melo, and Dirk have better supporting casts but I don’t see how else you can choose.
Nov.27 at 8:55 pm
TrippleX says:
my predictions for the starters:
WEST:
*Chris Paul
*Kobe Bryant
*Carmelo Anthony
*Dirk Nowitzki
*Yao Ming EAST:
*Allen Iverson
*Dwyane Wade
*LeBron James
*Chris Bosh
*Dwight Howard note - this is fan-based. this in my opinion are the most popular players at their respecive positions. man i thought the west centres were weak, but did any1 look at the east’s? theyre lucky to have dwight howard as a centre or else this would be impossible. shaq will NOT be on it this yr unless voted in by fans. im sorry shaq daddy, bur u killed my fantasy team this year and the heat are going no where unless you come back and play. it seems like shaqs alqwys injured… id say the leading candidates for backup c are bogut (o man, mayb in a few years, but no way does he make the allstar at this age, way too early and he hasnt even played THAT well to deserve allstar status), sammy dalembert (the guys getting it done on d, and i wouldnt mind seeing his sick dunks, but sixers also are going no where), zydrunas ilgauskas (cavs are going somewhere, but its not like the big z is a major impact. he even admitted himself he isnt comfortable on the cavs offense), ben wallace, and eddy curry (not too sure about this choice. id go with ben wallace, but im worried about his status with coach skiles. if he doesnt play and doesnt produce, he wont make it tis yr, which is sad considering the candidates for centre. mayb if bosh was a centre, or jermaine oneal, that wud def help.
Nov.27 at 8:57 pm
TrippleX says:
yo albie, jamaal magloire is in the west… jailblazers, whoops did i say that? magloire isnt even playing man, the dude barely gets minutes and is stuck behind aldridge and the vanilla gorilla.
Nov.27 at 8:59 pm
TrippleX says:
man cant believe my boy pau pau is injured still… yo 명/myung, if u drafted gasol with ur first overall pick, or even drafted him, my apologies…
Nov.27 at 9:00 pm
Chris says:
If VC is listed as a forward (i haven’t checked the ballot) he’ll be a starter AGAIN, dude’s still being carried by his ridiculous slam dunk contest six years ago
Nov.27 at 9:01 pm
albie1kenobi says:
fully aware that magloire is a blazer now. was referring he was an all star a few years ago with hornets in the east. still don’t know how that happened.
Nov.27 at 9:59 pm
BETCATS says:
Why didnt u put AK47 on that list? the man is one if not the most complete all-around players in the NBA he is a shot blocker, will steal the ball at any moment and can score from just about anywhere on any court that he plays on. When he comes back from injuries he will help the Jazz reach a goal-the playoffs (if he were traded to the bobcats i would be happy as hell but that will never happen and my dreams crushed)
Nov.27 at 11:32 pm
The Real Mongoose says:
BETCATS wins the worst post of the D.A.Y. award
Nov.27 at 11:52 pm
matt says:
i think 1 things clear… tha east is just fuckn shit… not onky does tha all star choices hav 2 reevaluated bcuz osm of tha guys who miss out it just wont b fair… but tha league in general if the east dont shape up soon… i mean this morning boston was 5-8 n 3rd in tha east! thats ridiculous while seatle 2nd bottom in the west is 6-9 a better %… ne1 got suggestions? i think tha playoffs shuld b decided purely by record personally… wana hear bout wot every1 thinks
Nov.28 at 12:15 am
Ryan Jones says:
TrippleX, fan perspective or not, do you really think two-time defending MVP Steve Nash won’t be the starting pg in the West?
Nov.28 at 12:42 am
Sam Rubenstein says:
Seeing all that talent out West really illustrates how badly the East sucks. Do you know how many teams in the East are over .500? FOUR.
Orlando beat Utah though.
Nov.28 at 1:57 am
gordon says:
im predicting a cover on elton brand next issue. dude hasn’t got any love recently…
Nov.28 at 2:41 am
Bryant Reeves says:
I’ve always wanted a Boozer jersey. Maybe because I’m an alcoholic…
Nov.28 at 5:59 am
Criz_Millz says:
the west…..ok Melo has made a point that the fans and coaches messed up the past 3 years, he should be an all star no doubt,Duncan,K.G., Dirk and Gasol no doubt All Stars, now Matrix, Amare, Peja, Rashard, and the rest aren’t all stars,good players not all stars, so the league should go to 15 players instead of 12, and the starters are west: Nash,Kobe,T-Mac, Dirk, and Yao….. the east: A.I., D-Wade, Vince,Lebron, and D-Howard, and the should bring back the Hall of Fame, can u see it,MJ, Magic, Zeke, Bird, Barkley, Malone, Mullin, David Robinson, Nique, Ewing, The Dream, Clyde the Glide, Worthy, McHale, Pip, Stockton, Tim Hardaway, Joe Dumars, Kenny Smith, Reggie, Kemp, Rodman, Mark Price,ect. that would be good for the league,
Nov.28 at 8:09 am
ziad says:
yea, tha allstars for the west is hard enough to decide from now! i really mean it! but for me i like to see it that way:
kobe-tmac back-court,
melo-tduncan front court
yao as center
back ups, boozer, kg, dirk, deron williams(yea he should be there, as he is amazing), cpaul, amare and ray allen, these are my choices i hope it will come! for me i see that dwest is coming from far also, you have kevin martin also, baron davis, to lsit a few
in the east,
lebron, ghill(yea he deserves it this year!)
vince carter dwade,
and dhow
back up, iverson, arenas, kidd, shaq,
j.oneal, boch(could be a starter, should be a starter!but look at his team!) ben wallace!
that is it! to mention, michael redd, joe jhonson, emeka okafour, ……………..
that is it!
and hey, if roy should be back again, he is acontender to got the bigg dance, but i guess not! as well as morison, but still, we have to see him in the rookie game!
and when vince shall win the allstars mvp, you all can yap it all about him and recall him as full amazing!
peace out!
yea a proud vc15 fan!
Nov.28 at 10:08 am
MDShuai says:
The hall of fame game sounds sweet in theory. Unfortunately, in practice it won’t work. You may recall that at the all star games recently - they don’t do it anymore I think - they had an “attraction” where a former player would lead a team with a WNBA player and some low-key celebrities. I watched it only cause Magic was playing, and it hurt to watch. It was not very much fun; and that was only half-court. And T-Mac does not deserve a start this year. Sorry, I don’t buy it. I watch every single rockets game that they play, mostly because that’s usually they only game they play here in China, and he looks asleep out there on the court. he doesn’t look like he cares, like he wants to win. I don’t think that attitude deserves an all-star start, not with so many other talented players in the west now.
Nov.28 at 10:32 am
Ryan Jones says:
Whats up Sam? Can I get some “don’t-miss” status for this one, or do you really need seven of your own columns on the front page?
Nov.28 at 12:20 pm
Max Airington says:
Yes, there’s an abundance of talented forwards in the West. Now stop stalling and put the damn Vince Carter tape up. Now.
Nov.28 at 12:53 pm
Ryan Jones says:
Vince Tape… Vince Tape… Not sure what you’re talking about, Max.
Nov.28 at 1:06 pm
Max Airington says:
I’ll get Salma Hayek and Vida Guerra to personally make you some homemade guacamole, in nothing but chef’s hats, in exchange for that tape. After I’m done with them, of course.
Nov.28 at 2:02 pm
Ryan Jones says:
Sloppy seconds? I’m good, Max. About that tape, though, be patient. We’ll get it.
Nov.28 at 2:17 pm
M.K. Petrik says:
Thank god the NBA doesn’t have a U.S.A Vs. The World then things would be screwy.
Nov.28 at 2:39 pm
Ryan Jones says:
I think the NHL did that before it died a couple years ago. Man, I miss the NHL. Oh, sorry, I meant to say, “Man, hockey is 128 percent irrelevant to me.”
Nov.28 at 3:13 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
Damn that, Max if you can get Salma Hayek for real than i’ll get you a bootleg copy of the Vince tape. You think i’m bull**ittin??
Nov.28 at 3:49 pm
Max Airington says:
Sloppy seconds?
Nov.28 at 4:29 pm
TrippleX says:
yo ryan, do you know how popular chris paul is these days? im not saying hes gonna get way more votes than nash, but i think hes got a decent chance and just enough to get that starting spot. well this is just my personal opinion, i think chris paul is more popluar than steve nash these days. well see what happens this allstar game.. but i can guarantee, chris paul will be a starter by NEXT yr’s allstar game if he isnt a starter this yr.
Nov.28 at 4:32 pm
TrippleX says:
the west guard spots are hard to tell, but heres what il think will happen: most votes in order (top 5):
kobe bryant
chris paul
steve nash
tracy mcgrady
ray allen
Nov.28 at 5:32 pm
Ryan Jones says:
Chris is nasty, and popular, no question, but keep in mind who votes — not just SLAM readers but lots of random folks whose opinions are more easily swayed by marketing campaigns and name recognition. And most of those people are gonna vote for the dude with the two MVP trophies who they’re REAL familiar with, not the second-year dude who’s only three years removed from high school ball splits his time between two small markets. I love Chris Paul, but it ain’t happenin’ this year (not by vote, anyway) and assuming Nasty maintains his level, I’d be surprised if it happens next year, too.
Nov.28 at 6:48 pm
Jared says:
Chris Paul isn’t getting more votes than Nashty, and Shaq’s gonna start for the East until the day he dies…you know how many Chinese Ballots are gonna be comin in? Who you think they kno better: Daddy or Beast? BTW…Dwight Howard is the thing that hides in little kids closets and under their beds cause he’s a fuckin monster…true story ps: it’s awesome to see how involved Ryan stays on the message boards. Participation by the man who edits the mag is a good sign of fan loyalty, keep doin what you do
Nov.28 at 6:58 pm
Dblizzy! says:
Ak47 is overrated, yeah he put’s up good all around numbers that’ll be great for your fantasy team but what does he do for the Jazz? they’re playing great now and he’s missed a 3rd of the games. Kid get’s hurt every yr and hasn’t played a full season since his rookie yr. If they had a draft of the league right now, there are probably at least 30 players taken before him. i just don’t see what’s so great about him other than the fact his wife said he can get one free pass a yr. maybe it’s just me…
Nov.28 at 7:14 pm
BETCATS says:
Overated? man u must be confused, and why do you want to think about him fuckin his wife cause that is disturbing.
Nov.28 at 7:55 pm
Jake Appleman says:
Max, The Vince tape is the greatest thing ever. Step your offer up.
Nov.28 at 10:02 pm
Ryan Jones says:
Thanks Jared, but I think all this posting might be why they’re firing me next week.
Nov.29 at 1:09 pm
Froggiestyle says:
D Howard is mos def happening this year and poor Amare looks like he’s got one in his diaper. If I were him I’d have snapped already - to go from most mad hops in the league to draggin his drawers - aie aie aieeee. Pauvre petit bout de chou. KG - all star 4 life - don’t front.
Nov.29 at 2:47 pm
canadian_baller says:
I must be woefully out of the loop here, since I don’t read the message boards too much, but what’s this Vince tape everyone’s talking about??
Nov.29 at 3:22 pm
Ryan Jones says:
C_B, if you haven’t gotten the new issue yet (assuming you’re Up North, your man Chris Bosh is probably on the cover) read my Editor’s Letter and my Vince feature. That’ll explain it.
Dec.3 at 4:57 pm
BETCATS says:
your Vince article was real good. AMy favorite dunk of his is when he dunked on David Robinson. U don’t hear about that dunk half as much as Jordan on Mutumbo
Dec.8 at 3:14 am
thesubwayconnection says:
Chris Paul will not be in the starting line up, because all of Canada votes for Steve Nash, that’s 26 million people. Assuming only a fifth of them do, that’s still 5 million votes.
Dec.10 at 8:25 pm
BETCATS says:
If A.I heads out west then who is the starin Point God for their all-star team. They got BDave, Andre Miller, Steve Nashty, Mike James, Tony P, and if they got AI the west coast will never fall.
Dec.18 at 5:06 pm
Gord says:
LOL as much as you see a TON of really loyal Canadian basketball fans posting on here, I think the fact is that the basketball fans who are from Canada are really hardcore, but frankly, most Canadians are still puckheads or soccer lovers. And that’s a sad thought of A.I. playing for the West team…he’s been a mainstay for the East team for soooo many years it would just be strange to see the team without him, kinda like the Sixers without him. “[Carmelo Anthony] is gonna get his ticket this year. There’s no way he doesn’t.” I think that due to recent events, this statement can be looked at for second review…though I really hope he’s still allowed to play in the game/still gets voted on.
Dec.19 at 12:54 pm
BETCATS says:
Gord are you callin me a candaian
Dec.27 at 6:59 pm
Galo says:
shit, the day T-MAC is listed as 6-10, Shaq is dropping down to 6-6, to play the point.
NAAHWW!
’bout the article, tiiight. It is really impossible to see ‘Melo out this year (even with the brawl), and i never wathced an All-Star without KG, TD, and Dirk is playing great.
I’d follow someone’s advice tho’, and start AI at point, Melo on 2, KG on 3, TD for PF and Dirk on C. now THAT’s an ALL-STAR. Screw the position regulations!! G
Jan.7 at 11:41 am
Sesa says:
I really think the West starting backcourt will be Kobe and T-Mac, unless T-Mac listed as forward. Just like last year
Aug.12 at 12:51 am
gizmo says:
all i got to say is that Tim duncan starting!!!!!!