October 1, 2008 8:00 am  |  281 Comments

SLAMonline Top 50: Shawn Marion, no. 23

The definitive ranking of the best players in the NBA today…

by Jeff Fox

There’s no way this is going to sit well with Shawn Marion. Only the 23rd best player in the L? That ain’t going to please Mr. Matrix. But this perceived slight is just more fuel for the fire–more propaganda for the “Shawn Against the World Movement.” Haven’t you heard? The hoops world is out to get the man. The Rodney Dangerfield of the NBA, Marion just don’t get no respect.

Seemingly already possessing the perfect nickname for his game–The Matrix–maybe another handle is more fitting. The Enigma. Behold.

Despite constant complaining about a perceived lack of respect and demanding a trade out of Phoenix, Marion was still generally considered a team player and played his hardest on the court every night.

Despite being asked to guard every position on the court at one time or another and widely viewed as one of the League’s top defenders (he was fourth in voting for the DPOY award in ‘07), he’s never been named to the League’s All-Defensive team.

Despite being a thin 6-7, 220lbs, undersized even for a small forward, Marion was one of the League’s best power forwards during his later years in Phoenix.

Despite playing power forward for years, he has less back-to-the-baskets moves than Charles Oakley did.

Despite feeling that he didn’t get enough shots/touches on offense, he lead the team in field goal attempts two out of his last four full seasons with the Suns, and was second in shots the other two years.

Despite being considered underrated, the very fact that he was mentioned as being underrated so often caused him to not be underrated anymore.

Despite feeling he isn’t given enough respect, he was the highest paid player on the Suns and will be the top earner on the Heat this season, making over $17 million.

Despite having the ugliest shooting stroke known to man, Marion is an accurate shooter (career–48% FG, 34% 3PT, 82% FT) able to hit shots from anywhere on the court.

Despite feeling his talent is overlooked, a few more solid seasons and he probably has done enough to get himself into the Hall of Fame when he retires.

Obviously, Marion is an enigmatic dude with a game not easily pigeonholed or classified. Is he a small forward or a power forward? How can such an ugly shot technique actually be fairly effective? How can a player with no real set plays on offense (besides alley oops) and no go-to moves score so many points and get so many shot attempts?

Maybe that’s Shawn Marion’s genius–there has never been a player like him in the history of the game and probably won’t be another anytime soon. Maybe that is also the reason he is isn’t often mentioned among the game’s greats–his contributions and talents are too complicated for a world that wants easy answers to digest.

So where does Marion find himself now, entering his first full season in South Beach? In the exact same position he so desperately wanted to get out of in Phoenix–as the dreaded third wheel. Except now, instead of Nash and Amare keeping him from individual glory, it is Dwyane Wade and Michael Beasley. Wade appears to be back in top form and ready to stake his claim as the best player in the game. The brash Beasley is not shy about getting his, and should have no trouble taking as many shots as he feels like.

Which leaves Marion the odd man out once again; the forgotten superstar who does all the little things that help teams win. Like playing hard defense, even if his opponent is a much smaller, quicker point guard or a big, bruising center. Like getting garbage points off offensive rebounds and broken plays that can make the difference between a team getting W and a L. Like posting double-doubles in his sleep (career averages–18.3ppg, 10.1rpg) as well as getting you a couple of steals and blocks. Despite all this, he’s also destined to have his thunder stolen by Flash and BEasy.

On second thought, maybe The Enigma isn’t a good enough nickname either. How about The Invisible Man?

Want more of the SLAMonline Top 50? Check out the archive.

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This story is filed under: Blogs, Draft 365, NBA, SLAMonline Top 50

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  • Todd Spehr Posted: Oct.1 at 8:03 am
    Great piece Jeff… It’s a shame a stud like Marion has an inferiority complex

  • riggs Posted: Oct.1 at 8:06 am
    if shawn marion was born decades earlier, he wouldve been a myth in the game

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.1 at 8:06 am
    I’d personally take Caron over him, but Shawn clearly has Butler licked in the rebounding and defense department.

  • andrew Posted: Oct.1 at 8:06 am
    Canadian Pig Vomit? I’d have him a little closer to 15, but then again, I still have to see who’s ranked between here and there. He has one of the prettiest/ugliest games in the lig, always enjoyed watching the Suns when he was a part of them. I’m curious to see how this season works out for him. Also, HOF’er? Big call. Otherwise, top notch article.

  • Ken Posted: Oct.1 at 8:13 am
    I’ll be curious to see what Marion’s #s are like this year. Good player on a bad team, but he’s sharing time with Wade and Beasley. I’ve always been curious to see what marion can do without Nash, and this year should answer that Q.

  • Tombomb Posted: Oct.1 at 8:14 am
    So quick question………..are the heat going to win this season? Because seriously i can see alot of alley-oops between Wade (who is looking like Ben Gordans older brother dude is ripped), Beasley and Marion……..I say they are gonna be the most exciting team to watch this year!! Now lets hear the disagreements….

  • Squirrel7 Posted: Oct.1 at 8:16 am
    Agreed that he possesses the worst shooting stroke ever, even funkier than K-Mart (the Sac-Town version). Worst thing is, it’s impossible to hit free-throws as him on NBA 2K8 due to his action!!!

  • andrew Posted: Oct.1 at 8:16 am
    I have trouble seeing the Heat as a run’n'gun team, Tombomb. But, if NBA programming is anything like it has been the last two seasons in Australia, then every other game will be a Heat game, and I’ll be glad if they do play with a more upbeat tempo (upbeat tempo? did I just write that? Ugh.) cos at least it won’t be the Spurs.

  • iain. Posted: Oct.1 at 8:25 am
    TAD, he does clearly have Caron licked in D and Rebounds, theres no great difference in ppg, steals, blocks.. So why would you take Caron? Out of interest not bashing your choice or nothing. Also, nice piece.

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.1 at 8:31 am
    Mmmm. Marionnnn. Yeh, Shawn could be placed anywhere from 20-40 and people would have to settle with it. I’d have him as a higher no. though. 25-30 imo.
    Nice write-up Jeff.

  • Money Bill Williams Posted: Oct.1 at 8:34 am
    Nice Jeff,though not to sure on HOF quote. HOF whinger maybe

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.1 at 8:35 am
    iain: Because Caron is younger and has a much more rounded offensive game and his ceiling appears to be much higher than Marion’s is. I also don’t like Shawn’s ME!ME!ME! complex. Caron is just someone who has a positive attitude that I would much rather have in my locker room.

  • H to the Izzo Posted: Oct.1 at 8:38 am
    Marion is one of the cases in basketball where numbers absolutely DO lie.

  • andrew Posted: Oct.1 at 8:39 am
    Money - he might become the most outspoken non-HOFer to whinge about not being a HOFer. FIBA might just put him in it just to make sure he doesn’t cry about it.

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.1 at 8:41 am
    FIBA has a hall of fame? wth? I know most countries do but… fiba?

  • andrew Posted: Oct.1 at 8:46 am
    FIBA runs the hall of fame… I think… *prepares to be showered with $hit from comment posters telling him he’s a d!ck for thinking that* I saw it on one of those FIBA programs they have on ESPN. It was the one in Springfield, MA, I’m sure of it.

  • David Posted: Oct.1 at 8:49 am
    I think comparisons to Pippen are in order.

  • Benoit Benjamin Posted: Oct.1 at 8:49 am
    Great piece, though the HOF for a guy who always disappears in playoffs is a long shot. And yes Hursty, there’s a fiba hall of fame, there’s even an internet site for the thing.

  • rob stewart Posted: Oct.1 at 8:51 am
    Marion is good but I think he will be alot less productive without Dantoni and Nash and that entire Suns sytem.

  • Benoit Benjamin Posted: Oct.1 at 8:52 am
    @Andrew: The fiba hall of fame is in Spain. You can find infos on it at halloffame.fiba.com.

  • Money Bill Williams Posted: Oct.1 at 8:54 am
    so pau and rudy will be in it then?

  • Bryan Posted: Oct.1 at 8:58 am
    Disagree.

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.1 at 8:58 am
    Think again David. Defense is all they have in common. And height. And weight.

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.1 at 9:00 am
    lmao @ Bryan. What a happy man.

  • Money Bill Williams Posted: Oct.1 at 9:00 am
    why?

  • Money Bill Williams Posted: Oct.1 at 9:02 am
    hursty, pip looked like he injected 30mg of dianabol twice a day, matrix looks like he on the atkins

  • David Posted: Oct.1 at 9:05 am
    @Hursty - and complaining about not always being the first option, but still providing a good all-around game. Pip could shoot a little better I think, and I’m sure he had a better handle and passing ability. Marion finishes better. I’m still not convinced their games are all that different.

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.1 at 9:05 am
    Yeh, I dont know much about steroids or pills so…. I have no idea what that meant. Sorry.

  • Bryan Posted: Oct.1 at 9:10 am
    I don’t think Marion can do anything without help. He would be a terrible first option. As a matter of fact I wish he could be one time so he could finally realize he sucks.

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.1 at 9:13 am
    Wow.So the fact that Pippen could dribble and played the point forward as well as create his own shot doesnt separate the two?

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.1 at 9:14 am
    Point taken Bryan. That is a VERY good point.

  • Benoit Benjamin Posted: Oct.1 at 9:14 am
    I agree with Bryan. Pippen could have been the go-to-guy on another team, like he was for the bulls when MJ was gone; Marion could never do that.

  • Lz - Cphfinest3 Posted: Oct.1 at 9:17 am
    Pip was an excellent passer and playmaker - the truest pointforward ever, Matrix is more of a PF trapped in a SF body. They have the D and build in common and that’s about it. Think this spot is maybe a little high for Matrix, I’ve would have had him around 30 because he is and will always be a complementary player (although probably the best complementary player in the L), with no real moves. But for his D, activeness, and especially his rebounding which is incredible for his size/position he should mos def be in the top 30.

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.1 at 9:17 am
    I terribly dislike this guy and his spot here. He should be in the 30’s and he’s not above Caron, at all. The Matrix has a virus.

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.1 at 9:28 am
    Eboy is somewhat of a hater.

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.1 at 9:29 am
    F*ck somewhat, dude’s garbage.

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.1 at 9:35 am
    Im on the fence, not bothered either way, as long as he stays in the East.

  • Nguni Posted: Oct.1 at 9:38 am
    this dude is a perennial 20 and 10 guy. Been doing ever since his sophomore years, way before Nash got to the valley of the sun. I think he deserves this spot, or maybe even higher. And he a team player who has averaged 1 turnover. For someone that scores that much, the turnovers are low. what is there not to like?

  • Nguni Posted: Oct.1 at 9:39 am
    …well, except for the way his shot looks.

  • Money Bill Williams Posted: Oct.1 at 9:40 am
    his attitude

  • overtime Posted: Oct.1 at 9:47 am
    great article…but the hall of fame?

  • Bryan Posted: Oct.1 at 9:48 am
    When has he not played with a dynamic guard? Tell me please.

  • Money Bill Williams Posted: Oct.1 at 9:51 am
    would you classify starbury dynamic

  • H to the Izzo Posted: Oct.1 at 9:53 am
    I would count Steve Nash and Dwyane Wade as both being dynamic guards.Whatever the f*ck a dynamic guard is……

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.1 at 9:56 am
    (was KJ playing in 99?), Marbury, Nash, Wade, J-Will, Chris Quinn lol.

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.1 at 9:59 am
    Uhm……this loser really didn’t play with ANYONE one the Heat last season, let alone the dynamics of Wade or Quinn(j/k). There was no team in Miami last season, lest we forget.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.1 at 9:59 am
    Wow, I mean… wow…

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.1 at 9:59 am
    Shawn MArion? Really?
    I’m with Eboy and Izzo on this one. Shawn Marion should be WAY higher.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.1 at 10:03 am
    This isn’t that great of an article too. Was Shawn Marion watching over your shoulder when you were writing this? You constantly keep apologizing to him and throwing out this “Shawn Marion against the world” argument, which, in my opinion, drops Shawn Marion’s value.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.1 at 10:15 am
    statistics is the best way to tell a lie and this is quite true in basketball. Maybe the Marion of 3 years ago is top-25 in the NBA but he is in a steady decline the last few years(this happens to all the players that depend so heavily on athletisism after 10 years of jumping around…)Anyway,this guy might be top-50 in the NBA now but he is no way top-100 in the world. I take for example 3 australians before i take him in Olympiakos…:P.MILLS, BOGUT, C.ANDERSEN(Barca,best of them all)…

  • Jeff Fox Posted: Oct.1 at 10:18 am
    I’m standing by my HOF statement. Notice I said he needs a few more good years - he’s not there yet. But he only turned 30-years-old and has remained in good shape and relatively injury free so it is possible.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.1 at 10:19 am
    Uh…. Mills is one dimensional, Bogut is not as good as Marion, Anderson sucks. Bad. So, shoo, go away.

  • Jeff Fox Posted: Oct.1 at 10:21 am
    Some #s to back up the HOF for Marion -
    #49 all-time in Defensive Rebounds
    #54 all-time in steals
    #92 all-time points/game
    #42 all-time rebounds/game
    #16 all-time steals/game

  • Jeff Fox Posted: Oct.1 at 10:22 am
    And the fact that Jukai doesn’t like my story hurts me deep inside my heart. And, no, Marion wasn’t looking over my shoulder when I was writing it - he was sitting in my lap.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.1 at 10:23 am
    i get the fealing that some guys here know basketball only through NBA video games…i cannot explain how easily you are mislead by statistics…this is one of the worst shooting perimeter players in the world (i saw him live in the Olympics and i couldn’t believe he was in team USA. Some of my friends not accustomed to NBA were laughing with me telling them that he is considered a great player in U.S.Of course we had also A.I and Starbury here so there were worse picks anyway…)

  • H to the Izzo Posted: Oct.1 at 10:24 am
    @NP:We get it,you think European basketball is superior.

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.1 at 10:25 am
    Oh, and Jeff, just to be clear, you made a good case for the dude, and the piece is well done, I just dislike Marion. No hate on your work from my end.

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.1 at 10:27 am
    Europe has a basketball league?

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.1 at 10:27 am
    i could say that you’ve never seen Anderson play and what he did last year at the Eurolegue final-4. At the same time it is quite possible you have seen him and just don’t get a clue…( judging from your inability to see the difference between Rudy Gay&Sjax compared to Manu & Parker)

  • Jeff Fox Posted: Oct.1 at 10:28 am
    Don’t worry Eboy - you’re still on my Christmas card list!!

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.1 at 10:29 am
    Thanks man.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.1 at 10:30 am
    Even NBA players with dual experience have said so…Euroleague is smarter, NBA is more athletic…i prefer to see Eurolegue games and NBA highlights.

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.1 at 10:31 am
    I’ll say this, I’d bet my balls that Ginoblli/Parker couldn’t beat Jax/Rudy in a game of two of two.

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.1 at 10:32 am
    And American’s own the gold medal for worldwide competition.

  • H to the Izzo Posted: Oct.1 at 10:34 am
    And so it begins…..

  • Bo Diddly Posted: Oct.1 at 10:34 am
    Marion is like a drill bit. Incredibly good WHEN you have a drill. Without it he is redundant. Does this analogy work? It may well be my first. On that basis I don’t think he can be above players like Brandon Roy, Joe Johnson, Tayshaun etc. Pippen proved he could do things without MJ so the comparison doesn’t work for me. And I seem to remember Marion being one of those that proved the majority of the NBA lacked basic fundamentals (e.g. mid range games) at some international competitions in recent years. Having said that, I like his game… ;)

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.1 at 10:35 am
    Co-sign Eboy x infinite to the power of 22/7! (aka Pi)

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.1 at 10:36 am
    @Izzo- whos NP? Nothin Personal hasn’t posted on here….?

  • James The Baller Posted: Oct.1 at 10:37 am
    I hope to god i do not see Chris Bosh anywhere near the top 20!!!!!!

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.1 at 10:38 am
    I think that SJax would intimidate the f*ck out of anyone in a 2-on-2 game.

  • H to the Izzo Posted: Oct.1 at 10:41 am
    Because the game of 2 0n 2 is the ultimate example of what makes you a great ball player….

  • mamadou n'diaye Posted: Oct.1 at 10:41 am
    HALL OF FAME!!??? after a “couple more solid seasons”?? surely you jest

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.1 at 10:42 am
    Oh, and David Andersen su*ks. Fu*k that dude is inconsistent. No D and awful fouls, overrated. Yes Im bashing an Aussie. Mark it down.

  • Bo Diddly Posted: Oct.1 at 10:43 am
    People have GOT to stop using these first initial surname/part of surname - nicknames. They ALL suck. ESPECIALLY KMART - wtf is that?? SJax? Please stop! Captain Jack all the way. arrggh

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.1 at 10:43 am
    No Izzo, you simp, it would the talent level of the 4 players who as we were told a couple of days ago, really wasn’t that close in favor of the Argenfrenchies.

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.1 at 10:44 am
    James: Hope to God all you want, Bosh will be on there and should be on there. You do watch actual basketball, right?

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.1 at 10:45 am
    *it would SHOW, sorry.

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.1 at 10:46 am
    James doesnt watch bball TAD- he plays it.

  • H to the Izzo Posted: Oct.1 at 10:48 am
    Well it isn’t.

  • James The Baller Posted: Oct.1 at 10:48 am
    @TAD … your telling me you woukld take Bosh over Sheed? Pau? Shaq? Billups? Like … its Chris Bosh, on most teams he should be a back up. Hes an ok player in toronto, but common!!! I hate Shaq but would take Shaq over him, so at least every second posession and every second game isnt the worst decision ive veer seen a player make before. He is terrible at decisions … and again, i wish he would cut his nappy a$$ head of hair!!

  • Allenp Posted: Oct.1 at 10:49 am
    Nice piece.

  • James The Baller Posted: Oct.1 at 10:50 am
    I would take Iggy over hime as well!!

  • James The Baller Posted: Oct.1 at 10:50 am
    Shawn marion would be above Bosh too!!

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.1 at 10:51 am
    I’m going to answer that question for TAD: Yes, he would.

  • Allenp Posted: Oct.1 at 10:52 am
    Did James say Chris Bosh would be a backup on most teams? And call Bosh’s hair nappy? Interesting.

  • H to the Izzo Posted: Oct.1 at 10:54 am
    Is the James the Baller-James the Balla?They,um,seem to have similar basketball knowledge.

  • James The Baller Posted: Oct.1 at 10:55 am
    Chris Bosh in any other uni except for, Knicks, Bobcats, Seattle (OKC), Memphis and he is an average player. Why wont Toronto EVER win (an i live in ONT), is because Tdot puts all its hopes on a Good Player to try and be a superstar!!! Which he isnt, so they are bulding around a less strong Chandler. Bosh can hit the midrange, i will say that … but again, he shoots mid range more than most shooting guards!

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.1 at 10:56 am
    Since Jukai answered for me, i’ll just co-sign.

  • James The Baller Posted: Oct.1 at 10:57 am
    So if you had a choice between Pau, who took a no name team to the playooffs and won rookie of year … or Bosh who has a half descent team of European shooters (IN THE EAST) … you would pick Bosh? Seriously …

  • James The Baller Posted: Oct.1 at 11:00 am
    Are we talking about potential here? because than beasley should be top 20 … Bosh is like a secret agent. His disguise is Toronto. Put him on a half descent team and you have a 1 inch taller Lamar odom … great one night, very very dissapointing the enxt!!

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 11:00 am
    i disagree. Shawn Marion

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 11:02 am
    OVER RATED!!! Gerald Wallace>>Shawn Marion

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.1 at 11:02 am
    James… you’re wrong on this one. Just trust literally every other human being on the planet.

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 11:02 am
    Gerald Wallace

  • Chevy Posted: Oct.1 at 11:04 am
    Okay with the spot for Marion, would take Caron over him though. The Pippen comparison is just silly… so who’s out of the top 50 now? AI? Hedo? Arenas? Davis? Parker? Ginobili (God forbid)? Boozer? (One of them by my calculations) Doesn’t matter, I just cannot see how any of them are considered worse players than Odom, Durant, Martin, Prince, Kidd.

  • James The Baller Posted: Oct.1 at 11:05 am
    lol every other human being… well ill agree to disagree (Ron Burgundy). But as for Bosh … hopefully hes 22, any higher and i may have to leave with Chuck Swirskey this season!! Onions baby onions!!

  • Chevy Posted: Oct.1 at 11:06 am
    or worse than Camby? (not that he’s bad, but his D is overrated, and then there’s not much left… decent player, but no way top 50).

  • Bryan Posted: Oct.1 at 11:06 am
    Marbury was a dynamic player and Nash followed. When he went to Miami his numbers took a dive when DWade was out.

  • James The Baller Posted: Oct.1 at 11:06 am
    I missed one day, it was like number 35, and i was really hoping that person wash Bosh. Plus Bosh deserves two spots on this list, one for himself, and another for his amazing signature shoes … :/

  • Allenp Posted: Oct.1 at 11:08 am
    You think Bosh is a skinner Chandler?
    Do you actually watch basketball?
    I’ve actually seen Bosh iso on the block or wing and make a move. Roughly 75-80 percent of the big men in the league cannot do that. And that includes starters. Shoot, I wish Denver had Bosh, I wouldn’t be worried about AI’s career at all then.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.1 at 11:08 am
    Also, co-sign BETCATS

  • Bruno Posted: Oct.1 at 11:25 am
    i have him at #21 cause for me, he is ahead of Tony Parker.
    i like this guy’s game. complete player that can do it all and guard anyone.
    the ugliest shot known by men, that’s also truth, but, Lebron comes in second if you are just choosing among active players.
    and please, STOP comparisons. Pip wa Pip. you can’t expect a new Pip as you can’t expect a new MJ.

  • airs Posted: Oct.1 at 11:32 am
    he should come to chicago.
    he’d have all the shine he wants!

  • airs Posted: Oct.1 at 11:38 am
    sorry, way off topic. just sayin..

  • Z Posted: Oct.1 at 11:41 am
    James is high on dope. Bosh is that dude. He should cut those ‘dreads’ though. I mean, he’s been trying to let it grow for like a decade. The hair is not cooperating, acceptance is the key to happiness.

  • dolemite Posted: Oct.1 at 12:05 pm
    does anyone know where #38 is located? i can’t find it anywhere

  • Exile Posted: Oct.1 at 12:07 pm
    James the Baller is a little off. Bosh is GOOD. I’ll save you the trouble.. Bosh won’t be the next man on the list… so you can run off with Swirsky’s onions… wouldn’t reccomend it, but hey…. your call.

  • Tripset30 Posted: Oct.1 at 12:08 pm
    Amazing that you can be considered the 23rd best player in the NBA without a consistent jumper, back to the basket moves, or decent handle. I’m not even being sarcastic. His intangibles are off the charts. The Heat could be an interesting team this year.

  • B. Long Posted: Oct.1 at 12:12 pm
    If the Heat don’t make the playoffs this year Pat Riley should fire himself.

  • dolemite Posted: Oct.1 at 12:13 pm
    does anyone know where #38 is located? i can’t find it anywhere

  • Moose Posted: Oct.1 at 12:24 pm
    B. Long, then he should just do it now, because I don’t see the Heat in the playoffs this year. Maybe they will, I acknowledge the chance of that happening, I just don’t see it. Sorry, Eboy, wherever you are.

  • Sparker Posted: Oct.1 at 12:33 pm
    clearly, james the baller’s woman screamed “do me, chris” or something similar the last time they had sex

  • matt Posted: Oct.1 at 12:37 pm
    bosh is not a starter in this league. just face it, he doesnt have a signature shoe and therefore he is a skinnier chandler. You know the guy with no offence outside of 2 feet, who is known for his defence. Theyre essentially the same player anywhere but the weight room. Oh and I didnt know that Baller was a synonym for tool.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.1 at 12:48 pm
    Sparker, c’mon now… whose woman HASN’T?

  • tealish Posted: Oct.1 at 12:52 pm
    Oh boy. Shawn Marion, HOF… really?

  • James The Baller Posted: Oct.1 at 12:59 pm
    thats all you have Sparker … did it take you this long to comment and thats what you brought to the table. At least put some effort into it like Jukai or B. Long. Christ.

  • James The Baller Posted: Oct.1 at 1:03 pm
    Clearly your mother has too … was that a low blow? And you can say how great Bosh is but, what has he done but he average? He holds the USA teams nuts for them though, and when Dwight, Bron, Kobe, Melo, and Wade werent getting rebounds i guess Chris got one here and there. And who said my girlfriend wasnt your mexican sister?

  • B. Long Posted: Oct.1 at 1:04 pm
    I wouldn’t take Bosh over Pau but Chris is definitely one of the best bigs in the league. Especially in the East. James really should read the recent article Slam wrote on Bosh. Reading is FUNdemental.

  • James The Baller Posted: Oct.1 at 1:08 pm
    See, thats all im asking. Pau is what, 40 something, high 30’s? And Bosh is going to be top 20???????????????????? I read everything on SLAM, it still doesnt make sense. All im saying, is that he is a good big, but we are not rating bigs here. SLAM is rating players, to how good they are, who you would pick for a franchise player, who is the best in the league right NOW in a row from 1-50 … Chris is not in the 20’s!!

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.1 at 1:09 pm
    Wow, judging from James’ reaction, maybe his girlfriend really DID scream Boshs’ name. He took that to the gut.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.1 at 1:09 pm
    James: Yes he is

  • matt Posted: Oct.1 at 1:10 pm
    I just copped the new Pau Gasol signature shoes.

  • James The Baller Posted: Oct.1 at 1:11 pm
    And i was reading someones comment on ugly jumpshots … and i agree with bron having a terrible jumpshot lol!

  • James The Baller Posted: Oct.1 at 1:12 pm
    lol naw im pretty sure if i had a girlfriend, and she was screaming chris it would be because his last name was rock, not Bosh!

  • James The Baller Posted: Oct.1 at 1:13 pm
    Or kaman, woman up north here like the Wolverine look.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.1 at 1:13 pm
    God damn, FACT: Chris Bosh averaged 22.3 points, 8.7 rebounds, and 2.6 assists last year. The year before, he had 22.6 and 10.7. Chris Bosh has a Field Goal clip of just under 500 percent (.495). He brings a block and a steal every game, with good defensiveness on the power forward. He’s incredibly fast and has taken slower power forwards to the hole, but is also strong enough to be able to score from under the basket. His post moves are basic but good, and his face-to-the-basket skills are way above even a good NBA power forward. His midrange game is also at a super-star level for a 4/5. Dude is a damn stud. Don’t think his stats wouldn’t have been even higher had he not hurt his knee last year.

  • H to the Izzo Posted: Oct.1 at 1:15 pm
    Urge to kill rising……

  • James The Baller Posted: Oct.1 at 1:16 pm
    So are we taking in juries into account? We have alot of IF’s than.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.1 at 1:16 pm
    Taking injuries into account HOW?

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.1 at 1:17 pm
    I also enjoyed how you ignored all the other evidence I posted and made a cryptic comment on his knee injury. Good job!

  • James The Baller Posted: Oct.1 at 1:17 pm
    Man, i think I am the best on here at getting izzo and Jukai and a few others mad as he11. If yall said Chris Bosh sucked, i would be saying he deserved MVP. Calm down ladies.

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.1 at 1:17 pm
    Jukai: Thanks, but you are only arguing against one person who has clearly been misled somewhere in life. It’s funny, but this may be the first time more than 95% on this board are agreeing with you.

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.1 at 1:17 pm
    I’ll chime in wit this, in 2010, Chris Bosh will be honing his skills in the shadow of South Beach. So, suck it pork chops!

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.1 at 1:19 pm
    He’ll be a lifeguard?

  • James The Baller Posted: Oct.1 at 1:19 pm
    Stats are great … would you like me to tell yout he stats u had on my terrible team last year, to the sumemr league team this year that was good. It goes for any team that isnt superb. His team is still good but the reason why the lose so many game is because they let Bosh make so many decisions, which he is not good at, and why that SAME spin move gets stopped 3 out of 4 times.

  • James The Baller Posted: Oct.1 at 1:20 pm
    I*

  • James The Baller Posted: Oct.1 at 1:21 pm
    Bosh is top 50, but not top 20 … toooo many player sin other postions deserve it more.

  • James The Baller Posted: Oct.1 at 1:21 pm
    Anyways back to work … keep sending though

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.1 at 1:22 pm
    TADOne: You’re right. And when you’re right, you’re right. And you’re right.

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.1 at 1:23 pm
    Cute TAD. James, I would venture this on your behalf, there’s a ton more support for Bosh at this point then there was last year at this point. I think the fact he showed out on the Olympic squad as easily the most well rounded and consistent post player/big leads alot of guys to feel that he is going to show out even more with a retooled lineup and justify this position on the list.

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.1 at 1:24 pm
    *his position

  • H to the Izzo Posted: Oct.1 at 1:24 pm
    I’m convinced that,if I stare at James’s posts long enough,they’ll eventually make sense.

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.1 at 1:25 pm
    James, let me give you a few things you can blame the Raps failures on before Bosh: coaching, Bargnani, no legit 2 guard, Jamario Moon was a ‘go to’ guy, rebounding, PG injuries, coaching, and then maybe Bosh.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.1 at 1:36 pm
    James, let me give you a few things you can blame on the fact that your girlfriend scream’s Bosh’s name at night, before Bosh: coaching, Bargnani, no legit 2 guard, Jamario Moon was a ‘go to’ guy, rebounding, PG injuries, coaching, and then maybe Bosh.

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.1 at 1:43 pm
    Oh, I get it: That was James’s girl who was talking crap that game to LeBron. Or maybe his sister.

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.1 at 1:45 pm
    I’m curious to see how #23 of the SLAM list does in his first exhibition game against……the Detroit Pistons on Sunday.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.1 at 1:54 pm
    He’ll keep jumping up to dunk those invisible Nash-thrown lob passes he keeps imagining are coming to him. What a joke.

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.1 at 2:02 pm
    There are exhibition games this Sunday?

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.1 at 2:03 pm
    I just bought tickets, TADly.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.1 at 2:15 pm
    Eboy is going to run up and punch Mario Chalmers in the face

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.1 at 2:17 pm
    Naw, I gave up violence for this season. I may get one of my boys to put a “care package” together for him to get courtside though.

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.1 at 2:19 pm
    Get a pic with Stuck’s with your Kemp shirt on.

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.1 at 2:22 pm
    Yeah, I’m sure dude wouldn’t look at me like “what’s this motherfu*ker doing trying to get a pic with me with a Shawn Kemp baby shirt on.”

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.1 at 2:25 pm
    Won’t know till you try. I’m sure you would go for one your boy’s first anyway.

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.1 at 2:29 pm
    Nah, fu*k that, the only dude I would try and give a pound to is Zo. Although D-Wade was pretty cool with my kid last year at a game. Who knows. I have a couple of days to plot.

  • Jeff Fox Posted: Oct.1 at 2:33 pm
    Shawn Marion isn’t going to like Bosh getting all the attention in the comments to his story!!

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.1 at 2:34 pm
    Why don’t you try yelling horseface at Chauncey and see what happens.

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.1 at 2:35 pm
    Sorry Jeff. We sort of hijacked your piece.

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.1 at 2:40 pm
    Sort of?

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.1 at 2:44 pm
    Well, I didn’t start the Bosh argument. Anyway. nice piece Jeff. I would also argue your assumption that Marion will be in the HOF. When a player like Adrian Dantley took all those years to get in, i’d have a hard time figuring someone like Marion would make it.

  • Crook Posted: Oct.1 at 2:48 pm
    Funny stuff. Marion is a really good p[layer that can do it all including pout. I’d take him on my team. The HOF is beginning to be a joke. It seems as if you have really good numbers you will get in. Numbers are easier to get in this watered down L the past 10 years. They need HOF levels. lol

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 3:27 pm
    Marion defenatly does NOT deserve to be this high.

  • B. Long Posted: Oct.1 at 3:29 pm
    I’m pretty sure that anyone in at a Pistons vs. Heat game is gonna wonder why the hell Eboy is wearing a Sonics colored baby Kemp shirt.

  • B. Long Posted: Oct.1 at 3:32 pm
    ^^Gerald Wallace would kill him in a game of one on one.

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.1 at 3:32 pm
    There’s that too, B.

  • James aka The Artist Formerly Known as Krayzie Bone Posted: Oct.1 at 3:35 pm
    I want to get on the Bosh arguement here (for the record, I like Shawn Marion on a team, but he is flawed, and in spite of his skills can’t play for every team in the L). For Rick James the Baller (cocaine is a hell of a drug), when a player is coming off 3 consecutive NBA all star appearances, led the gold medal team in the olympics in rebounding (and I think fg percentage too, but I could be wrong), is on a team that has made the playoffs two consecutive years, has led the team in rebounding and scoring for the last 2-3, that is the definition of a top 20 player in this league. It’s true that he may not bring the Raptors a championship ever, but many men better than him failed to do that as well (ewing, barkely, kemp (sometimes), wilkins, etc.). I would love to have a more talented player than bosh, but at the same time, even that is not a guarentee. Teams all over the league salivate over him, and it’s not because they think he’s on par with Pau Gasol.

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 3:36 pm
    B.Long is smart today.

  • James aka The Artist Formerly Known as Krayzie Bone Posted: Oct.1 at 3:38 pm
    To second crook’s point about numbers. With more teams in the league, there are more teams that need scoring, rebounding, etc. etc. So when we say people rank in a certain position all time, it’s the start of a proof, not the end of it (again, I like Marion’s rebounding from the SF position, so I’m not questioning anything to do with him per se_)

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 3:41 pm
    James aka Krayzie Bone>>>>>>

  • B. Long Posted: Oct.1 at 3:41 pm
    Sarcasm and intelligence are two totally different things, homie.

  • Brandon. Posted: Oct.1 at 3:41 pm
    Hmmm Great stuff Slam. although i had him top 20.. but i can wait and see who else you have before i judge you all

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 3:46 pm
    so you are saying that Marion could beat Wallace in a game of 1 on 1? Really? Well you do write for SKO so i can expect that stuff from you

  • what Posted: Oct.1 at 3:46 pm
    The only place where i’d take Marion over Caron Butler is in fantasy.

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.1 at 3:49 pm
    Who are you talking about, BET?

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 3:51 pm
    i was talking to B.Long, but indirectly you can take that comment however you like

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.1 at 3:53 pm
    Indirectly, you can go fu*k yourself with your insults, kid. Indirectly.

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 3:53 pm
    Indirectly you can go eat a bagel.

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 3:57 pm
    i guess Eboy went to eat the bagel…

  • Eboy Posted: Oct.1 at 4:00 pm
    BET, re-read my 3:53p comment each time you post some silliness directed at me in this post. You’ll be good with my answer each time.

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 4:02 pm
    aww a dilly-dalier like myself doesnt have time for that E. But thanks anywayz (with a Z)

  • Allenp Posted: Oct.1 at 4:11 pm
    What’s up with the bagel insult? I’ve seen that one before and I’m curious about the backstory.

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 4:14 pm
    EBoy once said he laugheed so hard at something i said that he almost choked on his bagel. I found it humourus that Eboy eats bagels. End of story

  • B. Long Posted: Oct.1 at 4:14 pm
    Hey BET, Did you take the ability to post comments off your blog because only one person ever commented or because that one person told you he’d rather put his di(k in a meat grinder than read that retarded sh!t again?

  • MSkittle Posted: Oct.1 at 4:15 pm
    Hall of Fame? You guys are crazy! I’d take Caron, Michael Redd, and Antawn over him

  • $tev3 Posted: Oct.1 at 4:15 pm
    I PERS0NALLY L0VE HIM BUT HE NEEDS T0 ST0P C0MPLAINING B4 SEATTLE( 0R AN0THER CRAPPY TEAM) SIGNS HIM THIS SUMMER

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 4:17 pm
    B.Long, i have actually had 46 comments on my blog. My forums are dead but thats another story. I am also glad you have decieded to use your pen!s for something constructive, i wish you and the meatgrinder nothing but the best in your marriage, maybe i will get you a cheese grader as a belated wedding present (even though i wasnt invited) and you and meatgridner can spice things up?

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 4:19 pm
    But dont you regularly ‘post’ your work nowhere? Because you dont have a REAL blog. You get a guest apperance. Congratulations on that. Maltzo Tovah or whatever that saying is. But i run my sh!t. Run it. You cant run, you treadmil it.

  • B. Long Posted: Oct.1 at 4:22 pm
    46 comments on over 6 months worth of material. Where does your mother find the time?

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 4:22 pm
    And the ablity to post under ‘articles’ has never been their. Freewebs doesnt do that. DP has it on his section (which he hasnt updated in years) so the substance of your argument is about as flawed as John McCain 4 Change.

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 4:23 pm
    are you my mom?
    “B. Long:
    Funny sh*t. 07-Aug-08
    63.172.100.x”

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 4:24 pm
    Mama Long? Mama Long?

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 4:25 pm
    and for the record, i dont need people to comment, i just want people to have as good of a time reading my blog as i do writing it. If you have a problem with that, get back on your anti-depressants.

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.1 at 4:37 pm
    Are we really beefing over blogs?

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 4:38 pm
    i guess

  • Myles Brown Posted: Oct.1 at 4:39 pm
    Sigh.

  • casey Posted: Oct.1 at 4:41 pm
    At least Marion got a little love. It’s about time!! (nice article btw)

  • B. Long Posted: Oct.1 at 4:48 pm
    @BET:Dude, I hate to put someone on blast like this but here’s the honest story. For about a month straight your goofy ass commented about 100 times a day on Slam asking people to read your blog(I think you got banned for a little while for it). Every once in awhile you say something slightly amusing so I decided what the heck I’ll take a look. The posts looked like something that Billy Madison would make up during his debate about the industrial revolution. Then I read the one comment already on the page by “anonymous” and I don’t remember it verbatim but it was something to the effect of “Please do the world a favor and never even look at a keyboard again”. Brutal. So yes, out of sheer pity I threw you a compliment because your a young kid and I hate to see dreams get crushed so violently. The only reason why I’m putting this out there is because you made a derogatory comment about SKO and no one from that site to my knowledge has ever said a word about yours.

  • B. Long Posted: Oct.1 at 4:50 pm
    ^Sorry about that but someone needed to say it. Good article, Jeff.

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 4:51 pm
    I got banned because of a mistake in the spam blocker, nobody banned me B.Long. As for that annoymus comment, it was on for 1 day before i deleted it. It is the only comment i have ever deleted and it was in the forums. It appeared the same day you posted your “funny sh!t” comment. How would you remember it if you didnt post it? And that was a JOKE just like YOUR LAKERS IN THE FINALS LAST YEAR!!!!

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 4:52 pm
    Mama Long, you made me yell agian, i am sorry.

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 4:55 pm
    as for Blogs, i am Russia; cold and stupid. SKO is America; free and stupid. You are Gerogia.

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 4:55 pm
    *SKO is not stupid, just america

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.1 at 4:58 pm
    I prefer dumb. Thanks.

  • tinchek Posted: Oct.1 at 5:07 pm
    hof? if he gets a ring…
    go matrix man!

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.1 at 5:14 pm
    I’m not exactly sure, all-in-all, how I feel about the way the comments have progressed… but the BETCATs blender/cheese grater comment was amazing.
    I’m not sure how I feel about B Long as a blogger. I read one of his SKO articles and it kept me pretty entertained. On the other hand, his Ricky Rubio article was so terrible, my eyes felt like they were doused with chili peppers and hot sauce.
    Marion sucks, though.

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 5:15 pm
    Hall of Fame or meeting David Haselhof? Which do you mean Tincheck?

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 5:22 pm
    Jukai and me have finaly agreed on something; Shawn Marion sucks. (but that is a hard word, Shawn does not suck at all realy, but he does not deserve to be here)

  • fluxland Posted: Oct.1 at 5:24 pm
    @TAD - lifeguard! Excellent. @E - why do you see him in Miami. I want him out of Toronto but I’m just wondering why you think that’s were he’s headed.

  • B. Long Posted: Oct.1 at 5:26 pm
    @Jukai: Jews eat chili peppers and hot sauce?

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.1 at 5:27 pm
    B Long: Sure, gives us something else to whine about

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 5:28 pm
    B.Long is my mom and racist?

  • scott Posted: Oct.1 at 5:31 pm
    Way to leave Phoenix and Steve Nash. That was the perfect system for Marion. Does anybody have an uglier shot then Marion?

  • ♦MyKal♠ Posted: Oct.1 at 5:31 pm
    He means Haselhoff, so he can get drunk and make a video of himself eating a cheeseburger saying ret@rded sh*t.

  • ciolkstar Posted: Oct.1 at 5:32 pm
    Caron is WAY better than Marion. people have to realize that any stats from the Phoenix suns in the last 5, or so, years are seriously inflated. Same goes for the Warriors. I’m not syaing these guys aren’t as good as their stats suggest, but rather that they would hard pressed to replicate those numbers on almost any other team. Also, I think its ironic that amrion was so unhappy with his do-everything role when that is so clearly what his game is best suited for. I’m sorry to say that i think he’d be a collossal failure if he had a team built around him, which seems to be what he wants. All that said, MIA should embrace their personnel and just run run run.

  • scott Posted: Oct.1 at 5:35 pm
    I think Miami is gonna sneak into the playoffs this year. Not advancing or anything but Miami is one of the top eight teams in the east.

  • scott Posted: Oct.1 at 5:37 pm
    Shawn Marion does not equal Hall Of Fame.

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 5:39 pm
    scott are you going to make your list agian?

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 5:44 pm
    Shawn Marion
    Miami Heat
    Position: F
    Height: 6-7 Weight: 230
    College: UNLV
    Player file | Team stats 2007-08 Statistics
    PPG 15.4
    RPG 10.2
    APG 2.2
    SPG 2.0
    BPG 1.4
    FG% 0.508
    FT% 0.707
    3P% 0.333
    MPG 36.7

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 5:44 pm
    Gerald Wallace
    Charlotte Bobcats
    Position: F
    Height: 6-7 Weight: 220
    College: Alabama
    Player file | Team stats 2007-08 Statistics
    PPG 19.4
    RPG 6.0
    APG 3.5
    SPG 2.1
    BPG 0.9
    FG% 0.449
    FT% 0.731
    3P% 0.321
    MPG 38.3

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 5:45 pm
    keep in mind Wallace had numerous injuries and was playing Power Forward, and Marion was adapting to a new offense.

  • scott Posted: Oct.1 at 5:49 pm
    @betcats…Should I? I really don’t think we are seeing Gerald Wallace at this point. I’m starting to doubt we’re going to see Jason Richardson too. Sorry.

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 5:51 pm
    i dont know scott. Every time you make the list, people fail to see that your list is in no particular order and gets mad at you. IF you want to feel controversial, go for it. If not i guess you dont have to. I am also dissapointed that neither Wallace or Richardson will make this list but lots of people havent had the chance to see them for what great players they are as Bobcats

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.1 at 5:54 pm
    Talking about future HOFamers, the mythical Starbury talked yesterday about the upcoming season and his plans!!!! “Because once I get on the basketball court, I’ll show what I can do and that’ll be that.I’m going to play basketball and I’m going to play at a high level. As long as I get on the court and once I get my opportunity, that’s it. Watch me play this year.” Man this guy should never retire from this game….sometimes i wonder who wasted more talent the last 10 years, he or A.I…..?

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.1 at 5:56 pm
    By the way, G.Wallace in the Euroleague wouldn’t even be a starter…(and check his face, about to explode….)

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 5:56 pm
    Iverson without a doubt. NY killed Starbury’s HOF chances and 20 + 8 career average

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 5:56 pm
    Kostas: Have you ever seen him play? I doubt it.

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 5:58 pm
    and what does “and check his face. about to explode…” even mean?

  • BETCATS Posted: Oct.1 at 6:01 pm
    i am out, peace

  • B. Long Posted: Oct.1 at 6:03 pm
    @Kostas: I’m not sure that either of them “wasted” their talent but Iverson won an MVP and lead one of the least talented teams to ever make it to the finals there only to be beaten by one of the greatest teams ever, so yeah A.I. wins.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.1 at 6:09 pm
    one more time(won’t be the last on this forum i’m sure…)basketball is MORE than numbers on a paper and that knows anybody who ever played the game. So stop aproaching it like “NBA live” cause if this was the case Elvin Hayes what have been considered top-10 all time…the face comment has to do with the fact that there are clear signs that he is a proud member of the “Lebron-Howard-wade-chandler-b.wallace-CLUB” (and there are much more unfortunatelly…)we became very carefull observers of some particular physical characteristics in Greece after the Kenteris fiasco…

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.1 at 6:11 pm
    i guess the culture of FANTASY basketball(doesn’t exhist in Europe) has to have also a correlation with this statistical obsession….

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.1 at 6:12 pm
    good night(noapte buna!!)

  • bereal Posted: Oct.1 at 6:14 pm
    Marion can’t create his own shot dependably. I don’t see how he’s top 23. And this is coming from a Heat fan.

  • Keith Posted: Oct.1 at 6:19 pm
    Nicely written piece Jeff. BUT Marion has only been as successful as he has because of the teams he’s been on. Granted, he filled in the gaps for the Suns to help them run smoothly but that’s all he was, a cog in the machine. You take him out and the team doesn’t work quite so smoothly but continues nonetheless. His open looks and high ppg is purely because the Suns scored 361 points every game. Personally, I hate the player. But Jeff wrote a nice piece.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.1 at 6:33 pm
    Elvin Hayes is one of the top 50 basketball players of all time Kostas. Using him is a bad example.

  • scott Posted: Oct.1 at 6:39 pm
    cosign jukai

  • ♦MyKal♠ Posted: Oct.1 at 7:26 pm
    Kostas, how did A.I. waste anything? He was given a gift and made the most of it.He has been through a lop of cr*p to get where he is , he was imprisoned after a bowling alley brawl was later released and then finished high school and ripped it up at Georgetown. Then he was the No.1 pick and ROY (both deservingly). He lead his team in scoring every year, won an MVP, was the best player on earth for a period of time, average 33 points per, led an overachieving Sixers team to the Finals and has the third highest career scoring average in history. So he doesn,t have a title, neither did KG, Ray Ray and The Truth until they were put on the SAME team. A.I. had nothing, even in Denver with a sulky Melo and no D. I’m sorry Kostas but you didn’t just disrespect A.I. did you? Nah, I didn’t think so!

  • TADOne Posted: Oct.1 at 7:56 pm
    Iverson has wasted talent?? Are you f*cking kidding me?! No seriously, am I on Candid Camera (Slam Edition)? Will Lang Whitaker pop up on my computer screen in like the next minute? K.T.- Forget all stats, just watch Ivy play. The man may not be much for practice or getting to photo shoots on time, but he leaves every single ounce of anything at all that he has in him every damn game out. I have nothing but utmost respect for Allan and I don’t gave a hoot what anyone says. He has more heart than 99% of the league, believe that.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Oct.1 at 8:00 pm
    Co-Sign TAD for real.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Oct.1 at 8:02 pm
    Really? This high for Marion? I mean we all know he flourished in play alongside Steve Nash, but by himself is he really a top 23 players? I’d take David West, All four of the Pistons starters, Joe Johnson, Caron Butler, and Ron Artest. He deserves enough props to be on this list, but this high??

  • j-smoov 5 Posted: Oct.1 at 8:24 pm
    Great article :D …If you do think about it, he really is the INVISIBLE MAN…

  • Moose Posted: Oct.1 at 9:34 pm
    Yes, Iverson has no wasted talent. Plays hard every night. Cosign TADOne.

  • scott Posted: Oct.1 at 9:58 pm
    Okay here is my top 22 players that haven’t been on the list so far. I didn’t include Ginobili or Arenas because they are out till mid December or January. By the way this is in order too. 1. Kobe Bryant
    2. LeBron James
    3. Kevin Garnett
    4. Chris Paul
    5. Tim Duncan
    6. Dwyane Wade
    7. Dirk Nowitzki
    8. Steve Nash
    9. Paul Pierce
    10. Dwight Howard
    11. Deron Williams
    12. Amare Stoudemire
    13. Tracy McGrady
    14. Carlos Boozer
    15. Allen Iverson
    16. Baron Davis
    17. Danny Granger
    18. Rudy Gay
    19. Chris Bosh
    20. Carmelo Anthony
    21. Yao Ming
    22. Jason Richardson Feel free to criticize and discuss.

  • Dacre Posted: Oct.1 at 10:21 pm
    See…knowing all that about Marion actually makes me think he is a overly paid sulky man.

  • parinaz Posted: Oct.1 at 10:35 pm
    suns fan miss him. some ppl are so stupid they say they want to see marion wihtout nash they have marion didnt play his entire career with nash. he was killing it before nash came. remember he got that big contract without nash. marions going to have crazy numbers this year knwoing its a contract year

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Oct.1 at 10:39 pm
    WOW scott, please do not take offense, but Yao at number 21 is just about the dumbest placement of a player ever. Being the best center in the NBA (let’s not have this debate until either Yao or Dwight shows up on this list) has your opinion of number 21? Dirk Nowitzki is number 7? Jason Richardson at number 22???????? Danny Granger at number 17?? Wha?

  • Angelino Posted: Oct.1 at 10:40 pm
    He is going to do some sweet stuff in Miami this season.

  • scott Posted: Oct.1 at 10:41 pm
    @Teddy feel free to post your list and Yao needs to stay healthy before you can put him in the top 15. I believe McGrady carried the team during their run last year.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Oct.1 at 10:42 pm
    And yeah, who the hell prefers Euroleague over NBA………? Besides Josh Childress? Ridiculous.

  • scott Posted: Oct.1 at 10:46 pm
    Did you ever notice how Houston is quicker and much better on defense without Yao. Howard, Nowitzki and Granger all had better years then Yao last year.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Oct.1 at 11:27 pm
    @ scott: Are you serious.. Yao may not be the quickest (obviously, he’s 7 ‘6), but he’s the best center in the game. Skill-wise, he’s the best and in-game, he’s way more reliable than any other center. I seriously don’t believe how you can put him in at number 21. Granger shouldn’t be in the top 50, period, nor Jason Richardson… You can’t seriously believe that Houston is better off (defensively or offensively) without Yao. Having an actual SKILLED post presence is something rare, like a needle in a big@ss haystack. Boozer ahead of Allen Iverson? Boozer ahead of Yao Ming? You underrate the hell out of Yao, man. He’s a top 15 player no matter what. I understand that this is your list, so I’m not sure if these are you favorite players or who you think are the best… Well anyhow, I don’t want to seem mean or anything but your list really needs another look at.

  • scott Posted: Oct.1 at 11:31 pm
    What has Yao ever really done? Houston is a better defensive team without Yao. Do you honestly believe Yao can be the best player on a championship team? If he doesn’t do it soon he never will. Yao’s career so far is much closer to Rik Smits then Shaq or Olajuwon.

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.1 at 11:42 pm
    They arent better on defense Scott. Yao and Hayes together is the best they have. Yao, Hayes, Battier, Tmac, Brooks was their best defensive line up.
    Of course they are quicker without Yao- hes 7′6 320pounds.

  • Hursty Posted: Oct.1 at 11:44 pm
    *sighs* ignores stupid comments. Proceeds to read other links.

  • scott Posted: Oct.1 at 11:49 pm
    Dwight Howard is more dominating then Yao. Howard averaged 21 and 14 last year and he is only 22. Yao has missed around 100 games the last three years. Howard’s ceiling is much higher then Yao. Houston would trade Yao in a heartbeat for Howard.

  • Money Bill Williams Posted: Oct.2 at 12:02 am
    no they wouldn’t

  • Darksaber Posted: Oct.2 at 12:30 am
    RI-DI-CU-LOUS spot for the Matrix. Utterly laughable. I hardly ever critisize Slam writers (who am i to judge, eh?) but this piece does not correspond with the ranking AT ALL!! Jesus, he does it all. He is super valuable, is THE NBA allrounder and a classic tweener, but still superbly effective in the Nba under different systems (D’Antoni a’int easy to play for). And he’s not even top 20?!! Get off the dust Jeff. Wade and Beasley (let’s see him play the big boys first before handing him the crown mhkay?) may be more visible choices for heat player of the year, BUT Shawn is the shiznit. Hands down. Read your own subtitles Ryne “the definitive ranking of today’s best NBA players” not ” the top 50 malcontents of the Nba”. Matrix is Top 20, if not even top 15.

  • Darksaber Posted: Oct.2 at 12:39 am
    On a related note, i sure missed seeing the famous commenters going at it in here. Just scrolled up to see Eboy, B.Long and co. taking on Betdumbdumb yet again. Waste of time guys, but sure amusing to read the Miami King spewing the f-word yet again, i kinda dig you consistency E.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 12:43 am
    Darksaber proving he has lost his mind.

  • Darksaber Posted: Oct.2 at 12:45 am
    heyyyy, Jukester is awake. and how exactly have i lost it hmm?

  • Darksaber Posted: Oct.2 at 12:52 am
    Ah well, another typical episode from Juk’s. Throw out an insult, then slink back into the cave to get some shut eye. Say hi to Osama while you are at it won’t ya J? Thanks

  • tealish Posted: Oct.2 at 1:11 am
    Scott: Yao is far far too slow. Boozer, Tmac, Gay, Granger(?!) too high. And AI too low. And fine, even that punk Melo is too low at 20. Believe me, I hate him too but there aren’t 19 guys better than him in this L.

  • tealish Posted: Oct.2 at 1:12 am
    And top 3 should be: KB, Bron, CP3. I don’t know if KG even gets the 4 spot either.

  • Jukai Posted: Oct.2 at 1:16 am
    he doesn’t have anything to say to you Darksaber!

  • Darksaber Posted: Oct.2 at 1:58 am
    Hey no problem, as long as he cradles you sweetly to sleep, it’s all good J.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 2:51 am
    @Jukai….:Elvin Hayes is a top-50 all-time but no way top-15(like his statistics suggest) as all of them who saw him (not i)have said many times.

  • Kostas Tsartsaris Posted: Oct.2 at 2:52 am
    buna dimineata!!(good morning)

  • KA Posted: Oct.2 at 3:27 am
    i was gonna say that dude whines too much but whaddaya know, pip whined a lot too: see? they ARE similar!

  • blackice87 Posted: Oct.2 at 4:04 am
    MY PRESIDENT IS BLACK, MY LAMBOS BLUE, AND I’LL MY GODDAMNED IF MY RIMS AIN’T TOO.

  • Gerard Himself Posted: Oct.2 at 4:56 am
    hm…. now that Marion is ranked, this probably means no love for RJ. I thought he would be at least be able to crack the top 50, but I guess I’m wrong.

  • jasonjoyce Posted: Oct.2 at 9:57 am
    i think he is overrated.if he can be on this position,did miami struggle last season?

  • underdog Posted: Oct.3 at 6:01 am
    There’s no such thing as garbage point.

  • Johnny Posted: Oct.3 at 11:33 pm
    “Benoit Benjamin says:
    Great piece, though the HOF for a guy who always disappears in playoffs is a long shot. And yes Hursty, there’s a fiba hall of fame, there’s even an internet site for the thing.”…………………. he sure didnt dissapear in 05-06 or 06-07 (ESPECIALLY 05-06).

  • Johnny Posted: Oct.3 at 11:34 pm
    “Benoit Benjamin says:
    I agree with Bryan. Pippen could have been the go-to-guy on another team, like he was for the bulls when MJ was gone; Marion could never do that.”……………… Marion DID do that. 02-03 Suns. Amare’s rookie year.

  • Johnny Posted: Oct.3 at 11:37 pm
    “Bryan says:
    When has he not played with a dynamic guard? Tell me please. “…………………. 03-04 after Marbury got traded to NY, whole 2nd half of the year, 50 games…… in those 50 games he averaged 21ppg/9.5rpg/2.9apg/1.4turnoverspg/1.8spg/1.5bpg on 44% fg’s and 37% 3pointers (with all-world defense as well).

  • Johnny Posted: Oct.3 at 11:40 pm
    “Kostas Tsartsaris says:
    i get the fealing that some guys here know basketball only through NBA video games…i cannot explain how easily you are mislead by statistics…this is one of the worst shooting perimeter players in the world (i