The Real Franchise Players
Not just Max Contract Players
The Kidd Trade was reactionary, alright. But the world is getting it twisted. Mark Cuban is a billionaire square that probably hops on every bandwagon rolling down the boulevard. I’m sure he did the Macarena, plays Guitar Hero; who knows, he probably rocks Uggs and friendship bracelets. But this Jason Kidd Trade was not him following the lead of his fellow Western Conference Contenders. This wasn’t him saying, “The Suns got Shaq? Well I need to go do something splashy and join the party.” The Kidd Trade wasn’t a reaction to the Shaq Trade or the Gasol Trade. The Kidd Trade was a reaction to the well-chronicled, uncomfortable-to-watch Dirk Nowitzki Meltdowns.
There are Franchise Players in this league and there are Max Contract Players. Kidd is the former, Dirk is the latter.
Don’t get me wrong: Dirk is nasty and worth the maximum amount of dollars that a team can offer. He provides a skill-set that should be offered at a premium. He’s a commodity and I’ll always be a fan of players getting that money. Max Contract Players are just that: ultra-talented stars that, if given the proper supporting talent, can always have their squads in contention and should be paid very handsomely, lest you want them jetting to the next squad. I don’t begrudge, for one iota of a second, Dirk getting paid 16, then 18, then 19, then $21M. But there’s something missing there, with him and his ilk, and it almost never has to do with the things they do with the Spalding, but with the way their brains are wired.
Franchise Players are the game’s transcendent athletes. Not only do they transcend the normal confines of productivity and skill and bank accounts and all that good stuff; but, most importantly, these dudes transcend competition. There are innate qualities, hard-wired into their essence/swag/will that impose upon the games they play, the teams they play for and the sad-sap-suckaz that were punished to play against them. Franchise Players are usually supremely gifted, but they are always transformational. What sets Tim Duncan apart from Amare Stoudemire or Kobe Bryant apart from Tracy McGrady is that Duncan and Kobe – Franchise Players – can transform a team and its players and routinely alter games – specifically the big, dangerous, scary games – by the sheer mix of their talent, will and whatever that abstract thing is that let’s teammates know, “We’re in good hands.”
Jason Kidd will not take the bulk of the clutch shots in May. Let that be understood right here, right now. But as the Mavs make their way through the Western Conference playoffs, Jason Kidd will be the Star that is offering the type of steel and exuding the type of confidence that will embolden his team. Kidd doesn’t shrink. You do not and will not gangsta Kidd into submission. The Mavs will not be in a close fourth quarter brawl with another contender and wonder, “Who’s going to lead us to victory?” Avery Johnson will not be publicly exasperated with Kidd’s leadership. Regardless of how bad he shoots or how well he guards the quick, opposing point guard; Jason Kidd will be assuming the fate of the Mavs Franchise like it’s his responsibility and, more often than not, delivering. Maybe he won’t deliver a championship trophy, but he will deliver a consistent string of moments and performances that illustrate the broad shoulders of a true Franchise Player. Dirk, on the other hand, will be happily, sheepishly following his lead, breathing heavy sighs of relief that he no longer bears that burden.
Dirk, like a lot of these other dudes out here, has been masquerading as a Franchise Player, clothed in his Max Contract and All-Star appearances. I’m here, though, to give you The Real. Below, you’ll find a list – a short list – of the NBA’s current Franchise Players. However, before we get to the Transcenders…
Michael Redd, Joe Johnson, Jermaine O’Neal, Rashard Lewis, Chris Bosh: These dudes are imposters that make a lot of dough. Good players, very skilled, but it’s laughable to think they could lead a team to anything except mediocrity interspersed with some flimsy success.
Amare Stoudemire, Yao Ming, Tracy McGrady, Dirk Nowitzki, Vince Carter, Paul Pierce, Pau Gasol: These are All-World talents. We will remember them forever when we think about this generation of the NBA. But they have proved that they don’t have that transformational gene. Whether it’s been by leading underachieving teams or exhibiting no real leadership/transcendent qualities, these guys will always need a Kidd Type to come save the day.
Dwight Howard, Carmelo Anthony, Carlos Boozer, Deron Williams, Gilbert Arenas, Caron Butler, Brandon Roy: The jury is still out on these cats. I’m withholding judgment.
FRANCHISE PLAYERS:
Allen Iverson, Chauncey Billups, Kevin Garnett, Baron Davis: I’m huddling these four together, because with the right team and right mix of talent, you can trust these dudes with your fate. They are transformational – but only to certain point. For instance, we’ve seen few Franchise performances like AI in 2001. He played some of the most compelling basketball we’ve ever seen. But how many times has AI squandered a Second Banana or simply not meshed with his teammates on the court? How often could one of his teammates, like Iguodala, look at him and say, “Man, if he’d just splash some of that magic on me and a few other dudes, we could be NASTY!” You can’t fit a franchise inside a vacuum.
Billups is a Franchise Player…for the Detroit Pistons. For that particular mix of players and that particular organization, Chauncey behaves and produces like a Franchise Player. But would it translate/transfer? I’m not exactly sure. Baron is similar. Everything a Franchise Player should do, he does for G-State. He’s the face of the franchise, the emotional leader, he plays hurt, he holds his teammates accountable for their actions, he orchestrates that chaotic offense, he hits slews of clutch buckets and he seizes moments, like when tomahawked on top of Kirilenko’s head. A Franchise Player is his squad’s soul. I love Jax and everything that he brings to the table, but he’s nuts, Baron isn’t. Baron is the Warriors’ soul. Yet, there’s still a part of me that wonders, “Is that a Baron Thing or is this a weird, Lightning In A Bottle Warriors Thing?” May of 2008 will let me know.
I’ve seen KG shrink before. I’ve seen him avoid the ball at the end of games. I’ve seen him hyperventilate on emotion. I’ve seen him miss the Playoffs year after year, when Tim Duncan wouldn’t have been in the same situation. But I also see KG as the most motivating, galvanizing, transformational leader in the league. Did you notice how Boston played when he was out? That was the KG Effect. That was the product of a Man On A Mission, coming to a franchise and letting cats know from the jump, “We will not be effing around while I’m here.” Sometimes, Franchise Players need some help to get to that prized destination. They might need a big man, or someone to get them the ball. KG needs a closer, like Pierce. But Franchise Players don’t need to be lead anywhere. KG is willing the Celtics to excellence.
(The following players, I assume, don’t need much explanation.)
Tim Duncan: Four rings. Three with Tony Parker at the point. ‘Nuff said.
Kobe Bryant: Remember that, since Shaq left, Kobe missed the Playoffs (IN THE WEST) just once – the first season, with an Old Rudy coaching, brand new teammates and a late-season injury. Say what you want, but the Lakers have always overachieved. They’ve been an ultra-young squad, competing on the merits of their Franchise Players talent and will. Kobe was also a better leader, during the past few seasons, than people give him credit for. He exhorted his teammates, he taught his teammates and he led his teammates. And, at the end of the day, every Laker could have been playing on broken ankles, with no arms and guess what? They’d all have believed they had a chance because Kobe was balling on their squad. That’s a Franchise Player.
LeBron James: Did you see Game 5 of the 2007 Eastern Conference Finals?
Dwayne Wade: This season has soiled his rep, a bit. But he’s played with Pat Riley’s mess, while injured. All one need to do is think back to his performance, as rookie, in the 2004 Playoffs and his entire run in the 2005-2006 season to determine if this dude can carry a franchise. He’s a reckless, single-minded winner. Pay attention.
Jason Kidd: Read the column.
Steve Nash: He might need Shaq’s help, but Nash will still be the leader of this team if they win the chip. As soon as the ball is tipped, all eyes are on Nash and he delivers. It was even incumbent upon him to ensure that his squad wouldn’t get punked like sissies during these recent Playoffs and that’s why you always saw little Nash, up in players’ grills, up in officials’ grills and generally handling duties that Amare should’ve been taking care of. He did all this because the squad was/is his responsibility. It don’t get no more Franchise than that.
Chris Paul: Not only does he have the ball in his hands at all times, make every single player on the Hornets roster better and control nearly every facet of the game; what makes Lil’ Chris precociously special is that, when you watch the Hornets, they behave like him. They’re kind of ornery. They frown a lot. They’re feisty. He’s transformed, essentially, non-descript talent into a winning outfit that is competing for a championship. The Hornets might need a few pieces here or a few pieces there, but never will George Shinn or Jeff Bower be sitting in their luxury box, looking at their Chris Paul Squad and feel like they need to go add someone to lead them to the promise land. They Got Chris, they’re covered.
That’s what Cuban was really thinking since last May. He was thinking, “I need a real Franchise Player.” So, he went out and got one.
Vincent Thomas is a columnist for SLAM Online and contributor to SLAM Magazine. He can be reached at vincethomas79@gmail.com.
161 Responses to “The Real Franchise Players”
Feb.20 at 3:11 pm
phunkykarma says:
What!? Dirk’s not a franchise player ?
Feb.20 at 3:13 pm
TADOne says:
Wow. Vince is the new conversation starter around here. I need to decipher this a little more before I reply. Good stuff Vince.
Feb.20 at 3:15 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Can you really be a franchise player when you quit on your previous franchise? Also, I like the concept, Vince, but I can’t agree with any ranking system that puts Wade ahead of AI and KG.
Feb.20 at 3:16 pm
phunkykarma says:
What about Mike Bibby ? It was him who almost led the Kings to the championchip, not Chris Webber or Vlade Divac.
Feb.20 at 3:18 pm
white hot eboy says:
That’s some really good sh*t, Vince. It’s a pretty accurate breakdown, too, of who and what makes “THE MAN”.
Feb.20 at 3:25 pm
flo rida evans says:
You on point like the guy out in front in those ‘Rainbow Six’ games.I think he’s called the ‘point man’.Wasn’t that also a T.V. show?
Feb.20 at 3:26 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
How do you define a guy like Shaq who was once a franchise player but his age has rendered him a role player. Mentally isn’t he still a franchise guy?
Feb.20 at 3:29 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Shaq is more like a Burger King franchise these days.
Feb.20 at 3:29 pm
Vincent Thomas says:
Shaq was a Franchise Player…but he’s past the stage where you debate his merits. he’s a role player at this point.
Feb.20 at 3:31 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
And Stephon Marbury is a disenfranchise player. What’s Rasheed Wallace? Zach Randolph? Gilbert Arenas? Steve Francis?
Feb.20 at 3:31 pm
bouncyman says:
If you take two all world talents (Mac and Yao) but have no true franchise player, do you have a shot at the title?
Feb.20 at 3:32 pm
Jess says:
pretty harsh on Bosh…I think he has done an awsome job leading the Raps to their first Atlantic division title last season. Like you said a franchise player leads when he has the right players. Well This is only the second year when Bosh has had the “right players”, and there still could be some changes to come that would make them better. I dont think you can say that Bosh isn’t a franchise player, and he will prove that very soon
Feb.20 at 3:35 pm
Myles Brown says:
I dont know about Nash. Still think hes a system player more than anything. Was he a franchise player in Dallas?
Feb.20 at 3:35 pm
Hisham says:
Good job, Vince. Put Bosh in there with Boozer, Deron, Melo and Dwight Howard and i agree with the whole thing
Feb.20 at 3:36 pm
Myles Brown says:
Oh, and…”I’ve seen KG shrink before. I’ve seen him avoid the ball at the end of games. I’ve seen him hyperventilate on emotion. I’ve seen him miss the Playoffs year after year, when Tim Duncan wouldn’t have been in the same situation.” Is Kevin McHale two words or three?
Feb.20 at 3:37 pm
Scott A.E. Smith says:
Chris Bosh isn’t a franchise player? To group him with Michael Redd, Joe Johnson, Jermaine O’Neal, and Rashard Lewis is hilarious. Maybe not as funny as his All-Star campaign video (the only thing he’s done that the U.S. media seems to have noticed) but fairly laughable nonetheless. Second-team All-NBA last year, his coach wins Coach of the Year, his GM is Executive of the Year, starts two straight ASGs (after injury to KG this year) and leads an up-and-coming team currently ahead of LBJ’s Cavs in the East, and you’re going to include him on the same list as Joe Johnson? Otherwise good column, but come on. That’s ridiculous.
Feb.20 at 3:37 pm
Mike C says:
Too early to put CP3 on that list.. Gotta get to the playoffs at least once to make that judgment..
Feb.20 at 3:38 pm
Hisham says:
Stat-wise, Shaq can probably be looked at as role player. Put you can’t put a value on the attention that he demands on offense. Leave him alone, and he still get 40 on you. (points not years) A role player won’t
Feb.20 at 3:39 pm
Hisham says:
I love my grammar
Feb.20 at 3:40 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
what about melo? I would say he’s a max guy he just thinks he’s a franchise guy..and isn’t the 2 most underrated stories of the season how underachieving the nuggets are and how good the jazz will be come playoff time?
Feb.20 at 3:40 pm
bouncyman says:
I agree with Mike C only in that if you put CP3 on the list, Deron should be there too. I think they’re both franchise players already.
Feb.20 at 3:42 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
Shaq is a role player ability-wise but i mean mean mentally. doesn’t his swag make him still a franchise guy? he won’t be intimidated by anyone
Feb.20 at 3:42 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
I’d say it’s too early to throw Yao under the Vince Carter bus, too.
Feb.20 at 3:44 pm
Tom says:
Damn Vince, your killing these articles. I had a whole rant ready just based on the headline and the pic, but after reading the article, I can’t really argue with it, only thing, I don’t think Billups is a franchise guy, the Pistons are a collective of like minded players who hold each other accountable. I mean you see Sheed calling out other players and Flip as much as Billups does. And Thank you for listing Bosh as a Non-franchise guy, I’ve been trying to tell people here in Toronto that for a while now but they’re not hearing it.
Feb.20 at 3:44 pm
Myles Brown says:
If thats the case then Nate Robinson has a franchise player mentality…
Feb.20 at 3:48 pm
Candice says:
If Klieza can score 41 pts playing with Melo and AI, then it’s no excuse for Andre Iguodala. It’s his own fault that he didn’t shine. With AI gone now he still isn’t taking over.
Feb.20 at 3:52 pm
Paps says:
This list is wack. The jury is still out on Carmelo Anthony. What? Did that bitch slap not tell you enough about the guy.
Feb.20 at 3:52 pm
double j says:
It’s interesting though how you’ve ranked these superstars… i imagine players have been said to be franchise players but then lose that naming. as in the mike bibby case, yes he led sac-town to face off with shaq diesel and kobe-kobes a few times back in the day, is this a franchise player? yes!!! he fought for his team each and every year, but now look at him… he ain’t got nothin’ is this going to be the fate of d-wade?
Feb.20 at 3:53 pm
Tom says:
and Jess…to me Bosh is like James worthy, I remember he was said he could average big numbers on a team going nowhere but he’d rather have his numbers take a dip and play with a guy like Magic who can get them rings
Feb.20 at 3:53 pm
Captain America says:
Vincent, sing it brother, sing it. Dirk is a multi talented baller with gonads the size of a fruit fly. Best piece yet.
Feb.20 at 3:56 pm
Captain America says:
ya, I’d like to see Booz make the jump. KG almost needs a new category, he’s as tenacious as a pit bull.
Feb.20 at 3:57 pm
Paps says:
So what if Worthy said something like that. Bosh never said anything like that. He stayed in Toronto to be this so called franchise player. He could have played anywhere. He wants to be and is the man.
Feb.20 at 4:00 pm
Chief says:
Man that list was good. You should do a list of the best franchise players of all time. the Admiral and MJ for sure.
Feb.20 at 4:02 pm
Sam Rubenstein says:
Nice job again Vince. You can see Vincent Thomas on your TV on a little show called Pardon the Interruption on ESPN. I believe it airs at 3:30 est today.
Feb.20 at 4:02 pm
Sam Rubenstein says:
And by pardon the interruption, I mean OUtside the Lines. Oops!
Feb.20 at 4:03 pm
Pie says:
The jury is still out on Carmelo? He can’t take a team anywhere. Why is he not grouped with the likes of Amare, Yao, Dirk, etc? Fanboy article at its best
Feb.20 at 4:07 pm
CoolWhip11 says:
What Steve Nash did in ‘06 says it all! No Amare, no problem. Hey, make Tim Thomas good again…sure. Make Boris Diaw look like a 9m/year player, done.
come back from 3-1 defecit…yes please.
Feb.20 at 4:08 pm
TADOne says:
Really Sam?
Feb.20 at 4:09 pm
Jess says:
Ya Bosh hasn’t said that he would take a dip in his numbers to play with better players like Worthy..rather he stuck it out with the guys that he had and showed that he is a leader..You can say that the jury is still out on Bosh and put him in a category with Dwight, Melo, Boozer and Deron, but there is NO WAY you can say, at this point in his career, that Chris Bosh is NOT a franchise player.
Feb.20 at 4:13 pm
Vincent Thomas says:
Sam. That was yesterday.
Feb.20 at 4:16 pm
Myles Brown says:
Vince, what were you talking about?
Feb.20 at 4:16 pm
adams says:
-Kevin Garnett has a career play-off record of 17-30. That’s from when his teams made the play-offs at all. I would put him in that failed franchise player category for sure. The guy needs to be paired with TWO all-stars to be potentially successful.
- Baron Davis has had one great postseason run. His name wouldn’t have been mentioned if you had written this article a year ago.
Feb.20 at 4:16 pm
TADOne says:
Time stopped for Sam when the Giants won the Superbowl apparently.
Feb.20 at 4:19 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Baron has always been a load. In one of the many years T-Mac got knocked out in the first round, his Magic got bumped off by Baron’s Hornets. Baron had two consecutive triple doubles to help him along and hit EVERY big shot.
Feb.20 at 4:21 pm
Sam Rubenstein says:
i’m confused. The plane back from New Orleans must have entered one of those time loops.
Regarding Kidd… when he played in the West he was like Tracy, KG, etc. never won a series unless you coun’t the Spurs when Duncan was injured and missed it. Went East, dominated. We’ll see how he does this year.
Feb.20 at 4:24 pm
Nic says:
Great article, it can turn a subjective reader to an objective thinker.
Feb.20 at 4:29 pm
TADOne says:
I don’t want to just dismiss Paul, but he should be on the jury is still out list. I understand your reasoning for putting him on the franchise list, but he still needs to show and prove in the playoffs.
Feb.20 at 4:30 pm
moutainman999 says:
If the jury is still out on Boozer, Williams, D12, then its still out on Yao. With Tmac playing terrible the last 13 games, and not playing the 7 before that, the Rockets have been led by Yao and have a 17-3 record, including 9 straight. Yao will win championships but he does need the right player with him. Just like Jason Kidd, what exactly has he done in Jersey the last few years? Even with some talent (Jefferson, Carter) I havent seem him take those guys to the finals. I dont think Dirk and Howard are THAT much better than RJ and Carter. But then again I think Dirk is overrated.
Feb.20 at 4:35 pm
Slick Nick Da Ruler says:
Vince, nice work man. This is the best Slam article I’ve read in a while. Loved the points, especially the fine line between Franchise Guys and Max Guys. Please include Gilbert in the Max category, he will never be a franchise guy.
Feb.20 at 4:40 pm
what says:
Pretty good assessment, but if it’s too soon to tell for Carmelo then it should be too soon to tell for Bosh too. Both of them were drafted as freshmen the same year. If anything Carmelo has played on more talented teams without accomplishing a whole lot to this point.
Feb.20 at 4:44 pm
maddskizzle says:
Boozer over Amare and Yao? Uh, no.
Feb.20 at 4:44 pm
Dan says:
Nice work, Vince.
Feb.20 at 4:44 pm
adams says:
Russ, but Baron also had two play-offs where he shot 37 percent. Suddenly everybody’s always been a Baron Davis fan, while in reality nobody cared about him for five years. So basically, for some people only last year counts in the evaluation?
Feb.20 at 4:51 pm
TADOne says:
I don’t care about stats, I’ve always just liked Baron’s game. When he is healthy, the man plays a beautiful game.
Feb.20 at 4:51 pm
Jukai says:
I was once a pure hater of Vincent articles, but I’m coming around. Iverson ain’t no franchise player (he’s failed like Dirk times 20) but everything else is dead on. I thought I was gonna have to come in here, guns blazin’, defending the big german, but it’s pretty dead on correct. Keep ‘em comin, buddy!
Feb.20 at 4:53 pm
Dutch Rich says:
What a captivating article. Thanks Vincent “FireStarter” Thomas.
I mentioned on another post that Shaq is not a franchise player as he could easily be considered a liability in the clutch. He’s more like the missing piece that will guarantee a one time championship.
I think the jury should still be out on Wade as well since he can’t shoot a sixteen footer to save his life.
Feb.20 at 4:55 pm
TADOne says:
Um Jukai, that must have been someone else who got the Sixers to the Finals.
Feb.20 at 4:56 pm
Allenp says:
Before I read all the comments, I want to say that Vince has been bringing that fire. That must be noted.
Feb.20 at 4:59 pm
Sean says:
“Dwight Howard, Carmelo Anthony, Carlos Boozer, Deron Williams: The jury is still out on these cats. I’m withholding judgment.” That’s funniest (read: stupidest) thing I’ve read all week. You need to adjust your antenna or somehting. Seriously, you have no business talking about basketball. All of these guys are absolute studs.
Feb.20 at 5:00 pm
H to the izzo says:
Allenp:I read your blog,good stuff and the title was a nice touch also.
Feb.20 at 5:02 pm
Dutch Rich says:
Another thing can be said about motivational leadership skills. CEO type qualities.
Nash=yes
Shaq=no
Vince=no
Kidd=yes
Wade=no
Lebron=yes
CP=yes
Yao=no
T-Mac=no
Kobe=yes
Dirk=no
Bush=no
Magic=yes
Chuck=no
Bird=yes
Feb.20 at 5:02 pm
Bruno says:
oh, and i can’t let it go without a comment…
MIKE BIBBY as a franchise player?!?!?!?!?!?!
what the hell have you been watching kid????????
Feb.20 at 5:08 pm
peteb80 says:
Does anyone have a good explanation why 9 out of 11 franchise players are guards?
Feb.20 at 5:09 pm
Allenp says:
Khalid, how is 33-20 underachieving? The Nuggets had their best record in 20 seasons before this year’s all-star break. The rest of the West is just that good. And I’m not sure where Melo fits as a franchise guy or a max guy. I think he’s being held back by Karl’s system of isolations.
Feb.20 at 5:10 pm
TADOne says:
8 out of 11. Bron is a forward.
Feb.20 at 5:10 pm
Vince says:
That’s a great question Pete80. Why do you think?
Feb.20 at 5:10 pm
Allenp says:
And Myles is right about Nash being a system guy. Isn’t his huge increase in performance tied to an increase in the talent around him and the system being run?
Feb.20 at 5:12 pm
Allenp says:
Thanks for the read Izzo and the compliments.
Feb.20 at 5:13 pm
Allenp says:
And if AI isn’t a franchise player I don’t know who is. He’s put up amazing numbers, turned around a lottery team, played for a ring and had done consistently well in the playoffs. What’s the problem?
Feb.20 at 5:18 pm
phunkykarma says:
Dirk nicht ein franchise Spieler ? Meinen Freunden von Five mag werden nicht mit es zufrieden. That’s all I can say in german.
Feb.20 at 5:20 pm
TADOne says:
Allenp: I’m not sure if Jukai will even answer you. His comment was quite moronic. AI is a franchise player thru and thru.
Feb.20 at 5:21 pm
peteb80 says:
Okay then. Why are 9 out of 11 franchise players the main ballhandlers on their squads? Or phrased differntly, what do you have to do to be a franchise player if the ball is not in your hands most of the time?
Feb.20 at 5:21 pm
TADOne says:
So was that a defense of Dirk or are you agreeing?
Feb.20 at 5:21 pm
TADOne says:
Who do you think he is excluding on that list Pete?
Feb.20 at 5:27 pm
TADOne says:
And to answer your question Pete: Most franchise players have the ball specifically put in their hands. Even though Shaq was not a guard, you could say he was a primary ballhandler when he was winning Chips w/ the Lakers. The triangle offense revolved around the post player touching the ball on most possessions. So honestly, unless you are a Bill Russell or Duncan type, you cannot be a franchise player without being the focal point.
Feb.20 at 5:31 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
allenp, the nuggets have no will to play defense. with the athletes they have, they should be better
Feb.20 at 5:35 pm
peteb80 says:
Tad, I was just wondering. Vincent really built a strong case. But I have to agree that KG and Baron Davis are being overrated at the moment, and Wade too.
Feb.20 at 5:35 pm
TADOne says:
Except Camby.
Feb.20 at 5:36 pm
jster says:
Shaq, surely was the biggest franchise player around. And since some on your list are now passing/passed their prime, and you def would not hand them max money, surely he should be listed in your def, since hes sitll playing.
Feb.20 at 5:39 pm
TADOne says:
I do agree that Baron should be on the list w/ Amare and Dirk: other world talents but just not having that “it” that pushes them to franchise status.
Feb.20 at 5:41 pm
The Best Yet says:
Good woork Vince. I especially agree with the piece on Bosh. Put some pressure on dude (bigs) and he chokes. Noticed that since he was in college.
Wade…he’s lost some stripes in my book though.
Feb.20 at 5:46 pm
Boing Dynasty says:
Incorrect, yet entertaining.
Feb.20 at 5:46 pm
Candice says:
Khalid they do play defense. They are in the top 5 in defensive efficeny, in the top 10 in opponets fg%,they are number one in forcing turnover’s, and are either one or 2 in block shot’s. Perimeter D is where they are weak at.
Feb.20 at 5:47 pm
Dutch Rich says:
I forgot to ad Jackie Moon to my list.
Feb.20 at 5:47 pm
Chief says:
What Baron hobbled his way past the Mavs. Even if they had Jason Kidd they still would have gone down. Baron Davis is crazy S@#!, he is a true Warrior. Boom Dizzle is electrifying. Watch him play, the energy, the beard he brings to the table is unparalleled, by any point guard to ever play.
Feb.20 at 5:52 pm
vmcb says:
How can you rank Bosh lower than Carmelo? Carmelo is definitely more talented on the offensive end, but he’s had way more talent to work with than Bosh, and has achieved just as little (yeah yeah, he’s in the West). To also lump him in with guys who aren’t even on playoff teams is an insult.
Feb.20 at 6:05 pm
Reggie Evans says:
Only Kobe and Lebron get The Franchise label.
Feb.20 at 6:09 pm
Dutch Rich says:
No Duncan, that’s wild.
Feb.20 at 6:11 pm
Dutch Rich says:
Let me reconstruct.
No Duncan?????? That’s wild!!!
Feb.20 at 6:15 pm
Co Co says:
Tim Duncan is where it’s at.
Feb.20 at 6:21 pm
Joe Marcus says:
CP3 is franchise (looks like the Hornets are in the playoffs this year, but Paul hasn’t accomplished anything yet), but Deron Williams is wait and see (conference finals last year and probable playoffs again this year). How again does that make sense? Yeah, something’s consistently wrong. Brandon Roy gets an all star spot for leading his team into the lottery. Deron, once again gets zilch. If Deron led the Jazz to the championship he’d still get no credit.
Feb.20 at 6:32 pm
albie1kenobi says:
mark cuban should have read this article before he decided not to re-sign nash.
to me, franchise players have to have the physical skills, mental capabilities, indisputed leaderships and dominating personalities that can carry the franchises on their shoulders, regardless of wherever they are. no matter which team they are on, everyone would say “this is so-and-so’s team”. by that definition, billups is not a franchise player. KG and nash are borderline franchise players, AI and Baron are right there with them. chris paul has all the right qualities to be a franchise player, if he isn’t one already.
Feb.20 at 6:40 pm
Allenp says:
Khalid, the Nuggets are inconsistent on defense, that doesn’t meant they can’t play defense. And outside of AI and Melo, who is a legitimate scorer for the Nuggets? You could argue that outside of the Hornets, every team that is more successful than the Nuggets has more quality scorers and well-rounded players than the Nuggets. Think about it for second. Combine that with some piss poor coaching and you have a problem. Doesn’t anybody wonder why this Nuggets team runs basically the same iso driven offense that Karl’s Bucks once used?
Feb.20 at 6:42 pm
Allenp says:
Albie, nobody thought Nash was a franchise guy before he came to the Suns and played with Amare and Marion. Nobody. He had never played like a franchise guy. His ascension was totally unpredicted, people forget that.
Feb.20 at 6:43 pm
Allenp says:
Melo is also the Nuggets only post threat, they lack consistent perimeter shooting and they have serious depth issues. People look at the contracts and names on Denver’s team and make assumptions but you actually need to examine what the personnel can really do to get a good idea of their ceiling.
Feb.20 at 7:07 pm
j-bird says:
Nash is most definitley a franchise guy. I guess allenp feels that if you cant predict it, it cant be right, lol.
Feb.20 at 7:16 pm
albie1kenobi says:
j-bird brings up a good question: can a player BECOME a franchise player?
allenp, i like the nuggets a lot too, but it’s almost maddening that they aren’t doing better. it’s consistency that they have the biggest problem with, whether it’s defense or offense. i don’t think they have a serious depth issue, and i think they should employ a very high octane offense. they are the most effective and dangerous when they play fast. in half court, if they move the ball quickly with lots of body movement (similar to the suns offense), they can create a mismatch every time down the court. oh right i forgot, they don’t have any outside shooters nor a point guard.
Feb.20 at 7:32 pm
Lz - Cphfinest3 says:
Very nice article! Don’t agree with everything though; Paul hasn’t been to the playoffs yet, therefore he’s no franchise player - sure looks like he will be one, but nobody knows guy ha’t faced real pressure yet. Deron was a stud in the playoffs hitting big shots - as for now he should be ranked above Paul.
Albie, agree with a lot of stuff you’re saying in your 6.32 comment. But remember teams can have two franchise players; Magic/Kareem, Kobe/Shaq, Stockton/Malone, on that note what about Ginobili - not saying he belongs in the top bracket. But I’ll take him to lead my team in a playoff series over Boozer any day. The guy is a flat out competitor, got Balls the size of Alaska, clutch, look what he did for Argentina. Ginobili shouldn’t be penalised because of Duncan, a lot of the games the last couple of years it was he not Duncan who took over when the going got tough down the stretch(not in any way saying that he’s more “franchise” than Duncan).
Shaq will always be franchise - it’s his aura, how he transforms his teammates and opponents. Good point about Bibby somebody had. And even though Pistons is a collective, Bilups is franchise, leadership, clutchness, toughness, ice in the weins. You don’t have to be a all-world talent to be “franchise” Reggie Miller is the example, Ewing to a lesser extent.
Feb.20 at 7:38 pm
Lz - Cphfinest3 says:
First some corrections *the guy hasen’t * .. transforms his teammates and INTIMIDATE opponents.
Albie you can become a franchise player, even though they are probably born with the gene. They need the right situation to rise to that level. LeBron did it in last years playoffs.
Feb.20 at 7:43 pm
Free Vick says:
-Kevin Garnett has a career play-off record of 17-30. That’s from when his teams made the play-offs at all. I would put him in that failed franchise player category for sure. The guy needs to be paired with TWO all-stars to be potentially successful.
- Baron Davis has had one great postseason run. His name wouldn’t have been mentioned if you had written this article a year ago I like liked the artical but I agree with this post. The media likes to swing on KG’s nuts because he does that cute lil “scream like a douche” thing but in all honesty a guy with that bad of a playoff history has no reason to be near a Franchise list…. And Baron? Over PP? Joke. And Deron has proven it in the playoffs…. Paul hasn’t.
Feb.20 at 7:49 pm
Jukai says:
God, TADOne’s facts are ALWAYS crap. AI got his team to the FINALS? OH MY GOD! That CLEARLY puts him above Dirk! I guess Dirk will NEVER EVER EVER DO THAT!!!! GREAT COUNTER-ARGUEMENT! Iverson is a ball hog, a great shooting guard but a terribly overrated point guard. Sure, he can find the open man and his court vision is great, but he CAN’T for the life of him control the tempo of the game. He can’t bring his team around him. And when he’s upset with a situation, he’ll make it known to EVERYONE around him. Now I think Allen Iverson is a hall of famer, and one of the top ten best shooting guards of all time. But claiming he’s a franchise player? What? That’s a joke.
Feb.20 at 7:52 pm
Jukai says:
You’re sort of a tool TADOne. Your opinion of players changes along with the general popluation’s perception of that player. I remember when everyone hated Iverson, how he made his team worse cause he took away chances for them to get the ball and that he stunted players growths… Now he’s on a championship contender team again and he’s hot stuff. Same with KG– guy can’t control his tempo and he ain’t clutch for crap… now Kevin’s the best PF on the planet, and an MVP candidate. It’s a joke. Take an opinion and keep it!
Feb.20 at 7:52 pm
Lz - Cphfinest3 says:
True, how many playoffs has KG decided? Baron is Franchise however, as Russ earlier mentioned he was a Stud for the Hornets in the playoffs as well. Besides LeBron has also only had one good playoffs run, nobody doubting him. Baron hasn’t been in a lot of situations where he could prove his franchiseness. KG has however, and hasn’t really been up to the trick - will interesting to see him for the Celts.
Feb.20 at 7:56 pm
Lz - Cphfinest3 says:
Jukai the team AI took to the finals, sucked big-time. Dirk’s Mavs where packed with talent. U really can’t compare it. AI has always raised his game, his teams has always overachieved in the playoffs. He’s about as franchise as they come.
Feb.20 at 8:07 pm
Candice says:
For AI to have the third highst scoring average in the playoff’s tell’s me something.
Feb.20 at 8:10 pm
Skillet Forilla says:
just wanted you to know that I loved this article. thanks
Feb.20 at 8:17 pm
TADOne says:
Jukai: Dude, I have my own opinions. But thanks for thinking so highly of me. I don’t need anyone else to form my opinions. I have never stated any hatred for AI on this board, so I have no idea WTF you are talking about. Also, when have I said KG ain’t clutch or that he is the best PF in the game? You are obviously reading other peoples opinions and applying them to me. Whatever, it’s cool. Wouldn’t expect much more from your comments. Yes, I did say that I thought KG was the early favorite for MVP. Also, AI took the ‘01 Sixers to the Finals. Who was the 2nd best player on that team? McKie? Mutumbo? And you also state that he is a HOF and among the 10 best guards. That is not a franchise player in your book? In my opinion it is. Not exactly sure why you were attacking me and calling me out in the first place from stating my opinion. Anyway, thanks for your opinion and the debate.
Feb.20 at 9:02 pm
Sko says:
Kidd = mulatto steel in the hour of chaos?
Feb.20 at 9:11 pm
DP says:
Don’t hurt him TAD. kids to young for that man. But in speaking of the article, I agree about Dirk. He has no nuts and until he proves he has some nut fluid in his body, I will always believe he is a p*ssy. A Peyton Manning before he won the championship. play wit it.
Feb.20 at 9:18 pm
tealish says:
A beautiful piece. I agree with all but the Chris Paul love. He’s been brilliant this year, but I’d reserve judgment until after the playoffs. Have you seen play a playoff game and delivered as a Franchise Player would? No, I didn’t think so. The same knock that Dirk gets doesn’t apply to Paul because he hasn’t been in that situation, so why label him a FP just because he hasn’t had the chance to choke like Dirk?
I’m not saying CP will choke, and most likely I think he’ll do great in the postseason too. But who knows? The games in June or even May are what separates the Iversons/Kobes/Duncans from the Tmac/Vince/KG. I wouldn’t be throwing Chris Paul’s name into Franchise status just yet.
Feb.20 at 9:20 pm
tealish says:
Hell, it was only last year that the DWill/CP debate was 50-50. I’m a little disapointed that you’d jump the gun like this - y’all (talking about SLAM writers) have always been more level-headed than the rest of the yahoos like ESPN, SI, etc.
Feb.20 at 9:24 pm
tealish says:
Oh and I thought I’d just mention that I think DWill is still only slightly behind Paul. My last post made it sound like they were no longer close. (If you are too busy jacking around on the CP bandwagon to remember DWill, look up their last head to head matchup)
Feb.20 at 9:35 pm
TADOne says:
Deron is definitely a PG that will be great for quite some time. Paul is better now and I think is the better talent. However, both are not franchise players yet, but I believe both will be in the near future.
Feb.20 at 9:41 pm
peteb80 says:
After re-reading I have to say this list is pretty random. So some guys are franchise players on career achievement (AI) others because they’re hot right now, but we can forget what happened before (Baron, KG) or they haven’t proven themselves at all (CP3). Some guys can be the franchise for exactly one team or system (Chauncey, Nash). I don’t know. The only guys I don’t have any trouble with are Duncan, Kobe and LeBron.
Feb.20 at 9:45 pm
peteb80 says:
Maybe you should have called it “Killer instinct players” or something, but then KG still shouldn’t be on.
Feb.20 at 11:25 pm
tealish says:
I’ve just noticed Baron Davis in your article. I’m sorry, that is the worst part of this piece. Baron Davis? Seriously?
Feb.21 at 12:32 am
TC says:
Nash a product of the system? what? He is the system!!
Feb.21 at 1:27 am
Jimmy G says:
Putting Dirk in the same category with Amare Stoudemire, Yao Ming, Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter, Paul Pierce, and Pau Gasol is a slap in the face to Dirk. Do I think Dirk is the “Franchise” player no, but he sure as hell is in the same boat as Garnett. He isn’t a guy that cant get his team past the first round (see: Yao & McGrady) a guy who can’t lead his team to a single playoff win (Gasol), a guy that quits on teams (Vince) or a guy whose team plays better without him (Stoudamire). Last time I checked, in KG’s big MVP year the most important player on that team was Sam Cassell. Dirk needing a Kidd type and Garnett needing two other future hall of famers sounds like the same damn thing to me.
Feb.21 at 1:58 am
tealish says:
I hate hypocrites and double standards. JimmyG, “a guy who quits on teams (vince)”……. how about (vince, kidd, kobe)? I was rooting for the suns that playoff series and even I can admit that Kobe decided not to play which was a deciding factor for the outcome of the series.
Feb.21 at 5:23 am
Jimmy G says:
How am I being a hypocrite? I was comparing Dirk to the people Vincent slotted him with.
Feb.21 at 5:27 am
speedy says:
It’s speedy aka Mr. unintelligent again.
Quote allenp :
“And Myles is right about Nash being a system guy. Isn’t his huge increase in performance tied to an increase in the talent around him and the system being run?”
You can’t say that about somebody who was MVP twice , fights through every game with consistent back problems or drains threes in crunch time like he does even with a bloody nose like last year .
He developed his game but you don’t recognize .
It’s like TC said .
Feb.21 at 5:36 am
speedy says:
Quote Lz - Cphfinest3
Jukai the team AI took to the finals, sucked big-time. Dirk’s Mavs where packed with talent. U really can’t compare it. AI has always raised his game, his teams has always overachieved in the playoffs. He’s about as franchise as they come.
You guys always seem to forget that AI took a team to the finals when the whole eastern conference sucked . That is no disrespect .
In my opinion he is the the man with the biggest heart and will in every game he plays.
But you should never forget that Dirk’s team went to the finals even though they played in the west.
Feb.21 at 5:47 am
Keith says:
A man gets his team to the finals on a great drive plus the foul on the road against San Antonio in game 7 of the WCF, he wins MVP the following year and in this wishy washy world he is not a franchise player. Stop trolling for reactions and write something decent
Feb.21 at 6:04 am
Harlem_World says:
Great article yet again Vincent. Around here, I think you’re fast becoming Slam’s Franchise guy (you better get that max paper…). Contrary to popular opinion, I’m not sold on Wade as that guy either. Sounds crazy, right? He’s a great guy and a very skilled player who doesn’t half-step on the court. HOWEVER, he is not of the level of Kobe and Lebron or TD. Admittedly I’m picking hairs here, but I wouldn’t lump Kobe, Lebron, TD, Nash, Kidd and CP (WHUT?!!!) in the same category when talking about levels of excellence and the ultimate ‘Franchise’ guys. IMHO a franchise player is that one guy you’d build your team around. The first player picked in a ‘no-holds barred/everyone in’ fantasy draft. On that type of criteria, 3 players stand out from the crowd: Kobe, TD and Lebron. Wade isn’t on that level and neither is CP (yet) or Kidd.
Feb.21 at 7:07 am
Slobodan Chutzpah says:
Let me just ask one simple question: how can Kidd be relied on to score in the clutch when he can’t get past most anyone and shoots something like 32% on jump shots? At 35, he most certainly is not a Franchise Player.
Feb.21 at 7:08 am
Slobodan Chutzpah says:
Let me just ask one simple question: how can Kidd be relied on to score in the clutch when he can’t get past most anyone and shoots something like 32% on jump shots? At 35, he most certainly is not a Franchise Player.
Feb.21 at 7:26 am
Malik says:
Dear Vincent Thomas, this is a vey well written article, however there’s absolutely no logic behind it. Your simply picking your favorite players and then you assign an individual definition of the “franchise player” to each one. There’s at least six different definitions of a franchise player in this column, some are very subjective and completely clash with others. You’re not giving “The Real”. I bet you can do better.
Feb.21 at 7:36 am
TheMC5 says:
I would just like to direct everyone’s attention to Chris Bosh’s complete ownage of Dwight Howard last night. Howard had a good game offensively, but Bosh made him look silly on defense basically all night long. It was awesome.
Feb.21 at 8:10 am
aska says:
This is disrespectful to AI — how can you acknowledge his 2001 run and then turn around and qualify his franchise status? If that’s the case, Dwyane Wade should be qualified because his team sucks right now. Lets see him sprinkle some magic, as you would put it, on his team. AI’s 2001 team had Mutombo, Lynch, Hill, Snow, Jumaine Jones….he CARRIED that team and made journeymen better. Wade has a better cast, and he’s now being exposed as someone who can’t make that team better. AI has always shined in the postseason, where it counts (55 against the Hornets in a Game 1 a few years back; 35 and 15 to win against the would-be champ Pistons, etc.)…so there is NO QUESTION that THE ANSWER is a franchise player. He should NOT be grouped with KG etc., players who have done nothing in the playoffs. As another post said, if Iguodala is really so good, then why is he just putting up marginally good numbers now that AI’s gone?? The fact that he’s deferring to Melo now to make the team reach its potential shouldn’t be a knock on him. Oh, and please, Nash is a borderline franchise player at best. He hasn’t even taken a team to the finals…AI has, on his back. His ‘01 run is just as, if not more compelling, than Bron’s run last year (AI - 2 50 pt. games vs. Toronto; 48 against the Lakers, etc.).
Feb.21 at 8:40 am
Sesa says:
Vince, everyone entitled to each and their own opinion. Your column seemed to me like, your the most single truth on the planet earth and you’re always right.
You had a great piece here but I really think you should also respect other people opinion.
Anywayz, I’d really think Shaq is a franchise player while Michael Redd is on the level between a role player and a franchise player just like Manu ginobili.
Once again, I loved your piece. Great work.
Feb.21 at 8:42 am
SLAM ONLINE | » The Post Up: Lakeshow Love says:
[…] Vincent said it best in his fantastic piece yesterday. To quote him, […]
Feb.21 at 9:16 am
2ouble says:
I know we are talking Current players but I gotta say that Magic Johnson and Mike Jordan are 2 of the GREATEST Franchise players of All time… Both of them are Franchise, Roll and Max Contract Players in one….
Feb.21 at 9:30 am
uamini says:
Is it me or has Dirk become the stay player with the worst rep in the NBA? For all his shortcomings he did lead his team to the finals, beating out the Spurs and the Suns, and all this without the help of a fellow all-star.
How is that a worse resume than Iverson, Garnett, Wade, Kidd who have all been unable to lead their teams deep in the playoffs after their initial success, how is it worse than Paul who hasn’t done anything in the playoffs yet, how is it worse than Nash who despite playing with Amare and Marion has never been to the NBA finals, or even worse than Baron Davis who has become slightly overrated ever since that Warriors-Mavs series?
While I agree that Nowitzki is not in the same category as Kobe, Duncan and Lebron (who has yet to prove he can win it all), he is definitely a step above McGrady, Gasol or Carter when it comes to leading your team to playoff wins.
Feb.21 at 9:31 am
uamini says:
That should be “star”, not “stay”…
Feb.21 at 9:39 am
overtime says:
Hang on,so Wade, whos team is without double-digit wins yet, is higher than KG? KG who transformed the Celtics from the worst team in the East last year to the top team in the entire league this year?Explain? Also, the MVP isn’t a Franchise Player?Yes he collapsed last year, but he alse carried them the year before.
Feb.21 at 10:32 am
peteb80 says:
Uamini, you’re absolutely right, but no one is going to care. It’s just so much fun piling it on on the European dude.
Feb.21 at 10:34 am
peteb80 says:
And since everone is doing it, it’s gotten so easy! Why not join in on the fun, running with the herd is just beautiful!
Feb.21 at 11:22 am
speedy says:
I agree totally with uamini .
It’s hard to see that a lot of these great basketball heads at slam online have a problem with recognizing that someone got game .
Feb.21 at 12:44 pm
nick says:
i guess chris bosh read this yesterday
Feb.21 at 1:16 pm
Jukai says:
Uamini, it’s just people’s opinions. Dirk is great but not a franchise player. You bring up lots of good evidence as Dirk being this do-all leader, but it’s not just the fact that he crumbled in the Golden State game… it’s that he hasn’t yet bounced back. That’s why he ain’t franchise. In the end, it’s all people’s opinions. I just wish nitwits like TADOne had better reasoning than “well AI is better than Dirk because uh, his team was worse that he lead to the playoffs!!” While that remains true, I don’t think Van Horn starting at the center position really makes me think of an all-star cast. Being top ten in any position and winning MVPs does not make you franchise. Look at Moses Malone.
Feb.21 at 2:14 pm
TADOne says:
Jukai: My man, back off the crack. Who the f*ck said anything about I thought AI was better than Dirk? Not me. But he is.
Feb.21 at 2:44 pm
tealish says:
Jukai, are you kiddddding me? Hell yes AI is better than Dirk. I thought this was one of those things that did not need to be said. AI is HOF, AI is Franchise, AI is a BEAST. All of those things, Dirky is not.
It is a real shame that he hasn’t had a cast to win a ring and unfortunately if he retires without one, that’s going to be a knock of his career. He finally has a good supporting cast, but in the West this year… good = mediocre.
Feb.21 at 2:59 pm
peteb80 says:
Jukai, a big part of the blame why Dirk hasn’t bounced back yet lies with Avery Johnson. He played him pretty much out of position under the basket a lot for like the first 35 games. Also he’s seeing way more double-teams this season.
Feb.21 at 3:03 pm
uamini says:
Jukai, no doubt..it’s all a matter of perception…
comparing AI to Nowitzki is difficult anyway, they’re completely different players…Iverson definitely has flaws as well, a 42% career shooter (40% in the playoffs) with 3.7 TO’s per game…
At the end of the day people always remember your last few achievements more so as you said Dirk has to bounce back and have a good playoff run for people to take him serious again…and by the way, I do believe that Avery Johnson doesn’t really know how to use him and puts him in positions that make him feel uncomfortable…
Feb.21 at 3:05 pm
Arvydas Sabonis says:
Timmy Duncan is the ultimate franschise player of this generation. No question.
2)Shaq
3)Kobe
4)Lebron
Feb.21 at 3:25 pm
peteb80 says:
Oh, and Baron Davis was traded to Golden State for a washed-up Dale Davis and Speedy Claxton. That’s how franchise he was just three years ago.
Feb.21 at 4:19 pm
tenorca says:
…and then BD throws the 20-footer in the Celtics face, at the buzzer, for the W. That’s what Vince is talking about.
Feb.21 at 5:36 pm
lynde says:
“Dirk Nowitzki is definitely an All-Star, but Nash may actually be the Mavs’ most valuable player. He’s been overshadowed by Nowitzki, but the point guard position is so important to a team’s success.” - Kevin Loughery, Sports Illustrated, 2002 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/kevin_loughery/news/2002/01/26/loughery_insider/ Myself, I agree with whoever it was that said that Nash is a borderline franchise player.
And I think that nobody currently in the league tops Tim Duncan as the ultimate franchise player.
Feb.21 at 5:41 pm
Sam says:
How many times has Baron Davis taken his team to the playoffs?
Feb.21 at 5:49 pm
Sam says:
One time he got to the playoffs and lost in the second round. Thats not franchise to me.
Feb.21 at 6:18 pm
uamini says:
…and even with that buzzer-beater the Warriors are still in 9th place in the West, that’s what I’M talking about.
If this is about buzzer beaters then why is Arenas not on this list
Feb.21 at 6:49 pm
Free Vick says:
What Wade (even though I hate him) did in ‘06 against Detroit and Dallas>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Anything KG has ever done or will do.
Feb.21 at 7:53 pm
Sam says:
Wade had Shaq and a great supporting cast in 06, but this year his team sucks…. KG has never played with any superstars or good role players until this year.
Feb.21 at 9:36 pm
Mr Clutch says:
Man I agree with in almost everything…And as a Nuggets fan I wanna ask you a question: Dont you think that Ai have stopped the process of Melo becoming one of those franchise player…I mean before the trade for AI and de all Msg mess he was a top 3 candidate to be the mvp,he was playing terific with andre miller at the point and Jr smith was a good side kick for him!!!I think at this time with the chemistry they had they could have done better in the playoff than what they did with AI…Sure AI and Melo is the Best combo you can have in your team but the two are too similar they are one on one players,scoring machines and bad defensive players!!!I think it was a bad move from the Denver Nuggets org.But I still hope that they prove me I was wrong.What you all think about that???
Feb.22 at 5:34 pm
A-dawg says:
Great article, I need to check slam out more often. BD’s talent and the “it” factor is not in question, it was always the injury history and his malcontent while in NO that lead to his getting dealt away for next to nothing. in both places however, it cannot be denied that he was the man. and uamini, to be 9th in the west given the warriors’ record is more of a testament to the depth of the west than anything else. get some perspective. also, no franchise player tags until a playoff appearance to prove it. sorry CP3, you’ll get your shot soon enough.
Feb.22 at 7:11 pm
Tone says:
Let ‘em know vince. I like how you broke it into three categories. Your readers are funny though. What kind of fan can think that chris paul and deron williams are in the same class? Time will definitely tell on this one, I can’t wait until N.O. starts getting more nationally televised games.
Feb.26 at 4:53 pm
SLAM ONLINE | » Yao’s Foot Saved George Karl’s Job says:
[…] No team, at the moment, is underachieving like the Denver Nuggets. During the preseason, Denver was a halfway sexy pick to hoist the trophy at season’s end. And why not? They had/have a Former Franchise Player and a Possible Franchise Player in AI and Melo. They had/have size, depth, inside-outside scoring — they have all the tools needed to get four wins first in a seven game series…against anyone. Yet, they tend to play scrub-ball. Their games can resemble the pace and tone of rec-league scrimmages. In the first quarter of last night’s game against Detroit, the Pistons hung 30 on the Nuggs. That was the eighth time, in the previous nine quarters, when a team dropped 30 or more points on Denver. The 8th!!!!!!!! That’s how Chicago — of all squads (!) — could hit up the Nuggets for 135, when it’d normally take the Bulls something like, maybe, six games to score that much. Have you seen them play? Denver, I mean. This squad — full of well-compensated veterans — doesn’t rotate on defense, they don’t get back on the break, they get out-rebounded because they don’t block out. Melo’s averaging a career best 7.4 rpg, but that’s because Denver’s pace is so ridiculously brisk that their games feature close to 175 shot put up each night.What’s enraging about Denver is that they could be much like the Lakers: A well-rounded squad that does everything well. L.A. shoots it well, they can run, they have low-post options, they rebound well, the play smart defense, they play hard. Denver, meanwhile, balls like the Wizards Of The West (with Gil). It’s best described as “tomfoolery on the court.” Zig, zag, lag, squirt, spurt, shoot, get duped, hang, sling, oops, wow, nope, zoom, gasp…“whatever, is it my turn to shoot?” I don’t mind such mindless play from the Wizards, they have a ceiling. The Nuggets, on the other hand, could be League Monsters. […]
Feb.26 at 10:41 pm
Weapon X says:
The Answer is franchise.
Mar.4 at 5:12 pm
SLAM ONLINE | » The Commish Memo says:
[…] $$$ Yeah, that’s right, I called both AI and Melo “Max Contract Players”, not “Franchise Players.” A few weeks ago I wrote a column documenting the difference between players in each category, focusing on the innate, transformational qualities exhibited in players that deserve the “Franchise” tag. Well, the lifeless, insular, lackadaisical, MTV Celebrity Game performances that Melo and AI continue to turn in happen to be the most disappointing plays of any superstars not named Vince Carter. Carmelo Anthony actually basket-hangs, like he’s a high school junior in 5th period gym. AI will literally jog at shooters with his hands by his side. He also refuses to pressure the ball or even attempt to play point guard when called upon. It’s infuriating. […]
Apr.15 at 12:15 am
SLAM ONLINE | » The Commish Playoff Preview (EAST) says:
[…] Most Compelling Storyline: Remember my Franchise Player and Hater columns? They both included extensive Dwight Howard indictments. Well, this is where homeboy can show us something (OK, well, me). I’m talking about some serious, game-changing, impactful play from the manchild. To hear everyone tell it, Dwight is Moses Malone and Shaq — and not a Young Shaq or a Early Houston Years Mo’, he’s supposedly a full grown beast. (Some ESPN experts actually picked him ahead of Chris Paul as being the best player under-23, other than ‘Bron — which is so ignorant.) So, it’s show-n-prove time. This shine-time. He’s the supposed-Franchise Guy on the favored team. I want him to get his King Kong on and carry the Magic like the white girl in the posters. That’s right, I wanna see him pick up Arroyo, Hedo and the rest of the squad, beat on his chest and put-back-jam the Magic into the conference semis. […]
May.9 at 12:39 am
SLAM ONLINE | » Second Round Thoughts from The Commish says:
[…] Pistons-Magic: This is what Stan Van Gundy had to say about Billups and the impact of his injury: “He is not only a great player, he’s their leader. Chauncey Billups is their guy, and it definitely had a huge effect on the game.” I think Billups is among the handful of Franchise Players in this league, so I obviously agree with Van Gundy. Sheed is the most talented Piston and the cat that gives Detroit it’s Contender Ceiling, but Billups is The Guy. When he went down in Game 3, I happened to be chatting with a friend that happened to grow up in Detroit, your typical delusional homer. I told her that Detroit ain’t winning a game without Billups. She then tried to sell me on Stuckey (whom I like as a youngster), but we all saw what happened in the 4th quarter. Because the Pistons run such an egalitarian outfit, we forget that there’s a hierarchy on that squad and that Billups is at the top. He’s indispensable — even against the Magic. That hammy needs to heal fast. […]