OJ Mayo: The Papoose of basketball?
His performance at the Jimmy V Classic changes things…
By Vincent Thomas
You might not think that Papoose and OJ Mayo have much in common, but UNTIL Mayo’s performance in yesterday’s Jimmy V Classic, they were the same people to me. Let me explain…
I hate hood-buzz. It annoys me. Things that are poppin’ in the hood are no different than the trivial trends that inundate mainstream media and pop culture. Just because the hood operates in a counter-culture doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s immune to doling out mistaken props and perpetuating ridiculousness. Just a year or so ago, grown men were wearing muu-muus that they chose to call “white-Ts”. They weren’t cool…well, let’s say it they were about as cool as fanny-packs.
You ever seen Idiocracy? It’s a Mike Judge film where the idiots of the world procreate at such a prolific rate that the world ends up being populated by a bunch of rubes. There’s plenty of smart people in the hood and there’s plenty of smart people in mainstream culture, but it seems that louts have the penchant for leading trends and popular opinion in both arenas. Hence, we have a rapper like Papoose that is seen as some New York City savior.
To be honest, dude has a modicum of skill. He can put words together fairly well and his rhymes give the listener an impression that he’s serious about lyrics. He’s not a ringtone rapper. But this kat is not That Dude. So every time I hear someone tout Papoose as the Second Coming — which happens often — I’m enraged. I used to just get annoyed…then I started getting irritated…the I started getting frustrated…then I started getting angered…and at this point it enrages me. Papoose and his hood-buzz can kick rocks. If I hear him spit one more 16-bar verse that features 16 punchlines, I’m gonna lose my lunch — and I’m a big dude, I eat a lot.
I can understand the embryonic stages of hood-buzz: Papoose is born in Bed Stuy, spends the requisite years toiling in the underground, links with a dude like Kay-Slay, slays a couple guest-appearances, drops some intriguing mixtapes, gets some high profile cosigns, offers a smart gimmick like “Alphabetical Slaughter”…next thing you know everyone is dropping his name…”I don’t get down with XYZ, my ni&&a is Papoose.” Great. Guess what young dude is my ni&&a? Lupe Fiasco. I guess I’m lame.
The way I feel about Papoose is how I felt about OJ Mayo. Sports is a different animal than hip hop, so OJ has received much more mainstream buzz…but it’s all the same. I know he’s been on the cover of Sports Illustrated and ESPN featured him in a SportsCenter segment when he was in pre-kindergarten. But don’t get it twisted: OJ’s fanbase was centered in the hood, no matter how many suburbanite teens rockin’ Vans and mop-tops with commendable shooting form cited him as a fav.
This is the way it’s been since LeBron graduated in ‘03. No one in the hood could care less about Dwight Howard until the Spring of ‘04 when he became the name cited as the top prospect for the NBA Draft, yet during that time, heads knew about Mayo. Kevin Durant was a nobody throughout 2005, unless you lived in D.C…but heads were hip to Mayo. He was That Dude. I was on him hard, until I caught him a couple times during the Summer AAU circuit of 2006. He was hoggin’, playing lazy ball, whining and losing his place on the perch of his high school class. I left the AAU National Championships in Orlando telling everyone I knew that Mayo was a closet fraud. I was dead wrong. I just didn’t know it, yet.
My fraud-radar was going nuts. Dude had all the makings of an impostor. He had the slick game, the hype, the swag and — most importantly — a lack of transcendence. Mayo was making his competition look stupid — sometimes — but rarely making teammates look magnificent. He was all hood-buzz, in my faulty estimation. Then came the “Ball In Stands” and the buster-performance at the McDonalds’ game and I was sure I had a roundball-dribbling Papoose on my hands. Mainstream media pounced on him. They started slurping Kevin Love (who will be a career role player) and downing OJ. I felt bad and wanted to start holding his torch, except I couldn’t avoid the Mayo-jocking schmucks on the street, in the barbershops and on the web. The hood took to the dude’s slick game, admirable swag, insane hype and they ran with it. Eff Derrick Rose and Eric Gordon — Mayo was That Dude, The Dude, It, Him, Everything. It irritated me.
We put him on our SLAM college basketball cover, standing in front of an expensive car. I understood why, but still. Then Ryan Jones wrote a feature that I twisted into an apology. Regardless of what he wrote, I read: OJ is misunderstood, love him. This was my anti-hood-buzz rearing its ugly head. Little did I know that, a few months later, I’d agree with Ryan.
Yesterday, I eagerly awaited the Jimmy V Classic, expecting Derrick Rose to show this Mayo Fraud what was what. Rose was gonna drop a 15-8-5-2 game on Mayo, while Memphis blasted USC and Mayo hogged and dumb-balled his way to a huge loss. Then I was gonna write a scathing commentary on this website, diminishing and ridiculing Mayo and his legion of fans. Instead, what I saw was a confirmation of what I always kinda knew, but the contrarian in me didn’t want to believe: Mayo is special.
Fact is, dude shot terribly in the second-half, didn’t take over or do anything transcendent to help his undermanned squad beat a squad of superior talent. But did you see him shut down Rose? To me, that was the illest performance — sans Kevin Durant Big 12 performances — since Carmelo Anthony’s one-and-done gems for Cuse. I had been watching Mayo and his acrobatics and fireworks throughout the early season and still found ample room for my anti-hood-buzz hate. Then he went and buckled down and locked up what may be the best player in the nation, while leading his team to a decisive first half that set a tone that carried the Trojans throughout the game that ended up being closer than you, me, Dickie V or Linda Cohn and her botoxed cheeks thought she’d witness. There was no exceptional hogging, no laziness, no nothing. Just an ultra-competitive, defensive-minded, especially-talented player that is anything but a fraud.
He finished just 6-20 and didn’t take over in the waning moments of regulation and/or overtime — but when was the last time you saw a youngster buckle down and shut down a rival? That right there was all I needed to know that Mayo has a ceiling as high as any of his predecessors with a mentality that is gonna help ensure that he reaches rarefied air. I’m as sure of this as Ryan was/is.
Buuuuut…Papoose? Not gonna happen.
158 Responses to “OJ Mayo: The Papoose of basketball?”
Dec.5 at 9:17 am
Sam Rubenstein says:
Nice piece Vince. Papoose has a song about myspace called Friend Request where he brags about being platinum on myspace etc. It is nerdier than a thousand Sir Meneliks.
Dec.5 at 9:37 am
Lieutenant Shinysides says:
R.I.P. Pimp C
Dec.5 at 9:40 am
white hot eboy says:
So Oj is the next Bruce Bowen or Shane Battier?
Dec.5 at 9:46 am
Lieutenant Shinysides says:
kevin durant’s big 12 performances? you meant to say everyone but kansas.
Dec.5 at 9:56 am
Ryan Jones says:
Vince, there is no quicker way to lose credibility around here than to agree with me. Please, for your own sake, don’t let it happen again.
Dec.5 at 10:15 am
Jared says:
Lupe is that dude
Dec.5 at 10:46 am
Wilford Brimley says:
OJ = The Glove. … err maybe not
Dec.5 at 10:47 am
Andrew says:
Mayo lives to fight another day (with the media)
Dec.5 at 11:14 am
Saku 39 says:
OJ will be good but I’d still take Gordon and Rose over him, in that order. Also, gotta credit the whole team last night, not just OJ, for slowing down Rose. Rose himself was playing some D and picking up steals. Kevin Love, career role player? Ouch.
Dec.5 at 11:20 am
ktokyo says:
great piece. Now write the same thing, but replace “OJ” with “KOBE”.
Dec.5 at 11:38 am
Allenp says:
OJ had a great all around game except for some poor forced shots when he tried to take over at the end. What really happened was that his teammates lost their composure as the game wore on, and he could play the same team-oriented game he had been play. I watched dude, not only was he locking down on defense, but he was consistently making the right pass, consistently playing under control and was clearly the leader of his team. He’s smart, really smart. Derrick Rose is quicker, but it last night it seemed like Mayo was a seasoned vet to Rose’s hyper rookie. That’s just what I saw in the second half.
Dec.5 at 11:44 am
ends says:
Love the “that Dude” reference. Thats what we used to call the kid with the new jordans at school. Yo, you saw that [dude] with the 11’s. Except of course we didnt start off saying dude…
Dec.5 at 11:49 am
Ryan Jones says:
Dude: Yet another example of black people stealing white people’s slang. Will it ever stop, yo?
Dec.5 at 12:00 pm
Ben Osborne says:
I was at the game(s) with Jack Erwin, who should be posting notes on here shortly. I wasn’t thrilled with OJ or Rose’s play, but definitely preferred OJ. OJ’s been the same to me for about 3 years: very talented, very driven, too small to be a transcendant shooting guard and too stubborn to become a real point. He will win SC some games this year, be a top pick and have a nice NBA career that I will enjoy following. He will not, however, live up to “that dude”-level buzz because unlike the Bron/Howard/Durant triumvirate that you cite, he doesn’t have the physical build to do so. As for Rose, I am confused. Another dude that plays hard and can defend, but is he really a true Point Guard? With THAT “jumpshot” he better be. Thanks for the column, Vince, and please note that I reserve the right to cut and paste this comment in Jack’s Game Notes column later today.
Dec.5 at 12:08 pm
Jared says:
thuga thuga thuga…wens the Nacirema dream droppin?
Dec.5 at 12:09 pm
Jared says:
OJ doesn’t have the physical build but KD does? Granted he’s gonna fill out still…but OJ’s kinda stocky…not to mention Bassy had “the build” how’s that worked out for him?
Dec.5 at 12:10 pm
ends says:
I feel the same way bout papoose. all these 12 year olds downlowding mixtape songs and compairing him to BIG, KRS-1 or when they really have no idea what they’re talking about. They do the same thing with ball players saying garbage like Lebron is better than Magic. Blasphemy
Dec.5 at 12:21 pm
Ryan Jones says:
Bassy is 5-11. OJ is 6-5.
Dec.5 at 12:21 pm
Thomas says:
i was happy to go to this game last night and i think the most impressive play came in the middle of the second half and i don’t know if they talked about it on tv or not but it was brilliant. the ball was about to come in play or stalled at the top, mayo was about to run through his screens when he looked up at the board and saw memphis had 6 team fouls so he wrapped his arm under who was guarding him, anderson maybe, and then tried to take off. he couldnt of course and anderson was called for a foul. mayo went to the line. i think he hit one of two. it was just such a heady play and showed an understanding of the game that no one else out there seemed to have. i was also pretty disappointed by CDR he didn’t do anything all game until ot when he took an undersized guard to the hole a lot.
Dec.5 at 12:25 pm
Baller 32 says:
Y yall hatin on da man!!! Dammm!!!
Dec.5 at 12:37 pm
white hot eboy says:
Tom, I’m sure OJ will get that call next year against Kobe, Wade, Arenas, Iverson, Bowen, etc when he tries to draw a foul (sarcasm). That play may be heady in college, but it’s something that’s done almost every possesion in the pro game and he will struggle to try and pull that off once let alone night to night and get that call from bitchy refs and against guys bigger and more in-tune with their surroundings.
Dec.5 at 12:47 pm
Jared says:
Whats your point ryan?
Dec.5 at 1:01 pm
Ace says:
Whoa, whoa, calm down people. Mayo’s D was on. No doubt, but Rose is never an agressive offensive player to begin with. I think he’s a great competitor and a gutsy performer, but he’s not a point and Rose is. Rose made plays at the end of the game when it truly counted, including converting one of Mayo’s turnovers on a crucial basket. Mayo didn’t score over the last 14 minutes and committed 2 crucial turnovers at the same time. That lasted into OT. Rose is a better point guard who played in control when it counted. I’ll take him over Mayo any day. STILL.
Dec.5 at 1:07 pm
Ben Osborne says:
Jared, “build” includes height. Kevin Durant is tall enough to play the 2, 3 or 4 in the NBA. Bassy is TINY (thanks, Ryan). OJ is tall enough to be a sick PG, not a sick 2G (in my opinion).
Dec.5 at 1:14 pm
Thomas says:
eboy - i wasn’t saying it would be effective at the next level next year, but it will be at some point. i wouldn’t be surprised if kobe himself told mayo about it this summer. i guess my point was just that mayo seems to think the game more than the other freshman in the class. love is the only other one who does it as well, maybe better. i think mayo will be a solid pro, not kobe or bron, but solid. i think beasly is the real phenom out of the bunch and not really because of his numbers but his hands and the way he scores.
Dec.5 at 1:19 pm
Khalid Salaam says:
Kevin Love Hatred? I like his game and i seem to be alone with my assessment of him but thats cool. He won’t be great but he will play in at least 1 all-star game in his career. he has a simple , organized game that i respect.
oj i like a lot but not more then beasley. gordon is my dude though, he has as much upside as any of them. its early obvious but he’s looking like the 2nd pick in the draft to me.
Dec.5 at 1:19 pm
Ryan Jones says:
Jared: What Ben said.
andeboyisahater
Dec.5 at 1:20 pm
white hot eboy says:
I’ll give you the co-sign on Beasly. The OJ/Kobe thing wouldn’t be too suprising.
Dec.5 at 1:21 pm
Ryan Jones says:
Word on KLove, Khalid. He’s going to be a good pro.
Actually, I just like it when Khalid defends white players.
Dec.5 at 1:22 pm
white hot eboy says:
Not a hater, a realist.
Dec.5 at 1:23 pm
Ryan Jones says:
A Haterist!
Dec.5 at 1:26 pm
Jared says:
Kid is 6′5…you guys are in love with monta ellis who isn’t a 1 and is only 6′3, and since when does height necessarily define if someone can make it in the NBA? Elton Brand…easily one of the most effective 4’s in the L is 6′8…how tall is Ben Wallace (he was the same height when he didnt suck) or how tall was Barkley? Bassy is tiny, but that didn’t stop you and the rest of the media from saying he was the next great pg. Look at some of the top 2-guards in the L…excluding Kobe, Bron, Mac, Michael Redd didn’t have the build, Rip Hamilton isn’t a tall dude…whats wrong with a 6′5 2-guard?
Dec.5 at 1:27 pm
white hot eboy says:
That sounds like a good name for a column.
Dec.5 at 1:28 pm
Myles Brown says:
I like the rap music. And I like Lupe when he’s not talking sideways about the Tribe. Oh, and Joey too. That is all.
Dec.5 at 1:28 pm
white hot eboy says:
Wade is 6′ 4″, so is Gil. At least that’s what they’re listed at.
Dec.5 at 1:29 pm
Bryan says:
Rip Hamilton is 6′7
Dec.5 at 1:31 pm
Bryan says:
I don’t know who the hell papoose is.
Dec.5 at 1:32 pm
A.C. says:
USC played a triangle and two. So it wasn’t like Mayo shut him down single-handly. Peep the ESPN article
Dec.5 at 1:35 pm
Ryan Jones says:
Ben and I disagree on OJ’s ability to play the 2 (I think he can do it), but I think we agree that 5-11 guys very rarely excel in the League, especially when they can’t make jump shots. That’s a big part of Bassy’s problem. Anyway, I don’t ever remember us saying Bassy was going to the be the next great NBA pg — he was f*cking amazing in high school, and I’m sure he would’ve been terrific in college, but I never expected him to be an NBA star. I thought he’d be a good NBA player. My bad on that.
Myles, I’ve missed it — what exactly did Lupe say about ATCQ?
Dec.5 at 1:36 pm
Bryan says:
He’s still only 22 years old in case anyone forgot.
Dec.5 at 1:36 pm
Ryan Jones says:
Bryan, we know you don’t follow hip-hop, and that’s cool. But by now you should be used to the fact that most of the people on this site do.
Dec.5 at 1:40 pm
Myles Brown says:
After completely mangling some Tribe lyrics during a VH1 tribute, this m*therf*cker had the audacity to say that he had never heard Midnight Marauders and he wasnt going to either. Then he made some piss poor analogy comparing them to MC Hammer. Obviously the purists were up in arms, as they should have been. Not cool.
Dec.5 at 1:41 pm
Myles Brown says:
How can you be an MC and have never heard that album?!
Dec.5 at 1:42 pm
Jared says:
I’m only pointing out bassy cause you had him on 3 covers…i’d expect you to think highly of the guy you have on the cover of your magazine 3 times…i feel you that it’s tough for a little guy to make it in the L…and Lupe only said he wasn’t really up on them, that he was flattered (doubt he said flattered tho) that they wanted him to do their tribute but he didn’t think he was the best selection because he didn’t really listen to them too much growin up…lupe is the best hip hopper out right now
Dec.5 at 1:42 pm
Myles Brown says:
And for the trifecta, I’d draft OJ or derrick to Minnesota right NOW if they’d let me.
Dec.5 at 1:44 pm
Bryan says:
O I’m just saying I don’t follow the reference so much. Not hating for once haha. But why do people talk about Bassy like he is a washout he is TWENTY TWO.
Dec.5 at 1:45 pm
Myles Brown says:
Bassy gets a bad rap. Get it? Rap? Brilliant! No seriously, he’s realy improved this year. I hope he sticks around.
Dec.5 at 1:46 pm
Jared says:
while lu’s got that style remniscent of tribe, he’s pretty unique in todays game and is pickin the game apart…he’s a student of the game, but he rhymes more about what’s goin on today than how he got to where he is…he’s a breathe of fresh air in todays wack ass rap music, people gonna prefer yung joc over him cause he can acknowledge the founding fathers of hip hop? get outta here
Dec.5 at 1:48 pm
Ryan Jones says:
I’ll never regret the amount of pre-NBA coverage we gave Bassy; as stated, he was a remarkable high school guard and remains the ONLY player I ever saw out-do LeBron one-on-one in high school. He was also a great story for a lot of reasons. That said, his third cover was a mistake, and one I will always blame on our publisher, who sort of insisted on it. That said, our publisher also founded the damn magazine, so he gets a pass.
And thanks Myles. If Lupe was dissing/ignorant of Tribe, he can make like Tim Dog and eat a big fat d*ck.
Dec.5 at 1:52 pm
Bryan says:
Werd.
Dec.5 at 1:53 pm
Jukai says:
People only write about how they hate OJ Mayo after they begin liking him again. Rose has a tough game because Mayo was guarding him and Rose couldn’t get off a shot, but Mayo had a bad game because he was forcing shots and it had nothing to do with Rose. Even if OJ Mayo becomes the next Michael Jordan, I do not think I will ever like this kid. Ever.
Dec.5 at 1:58 pm
d.Y. says:
Word indeed. Good piece, but whoever told you the hood was counter-culture lied to you.
Dec.5 at 2:03 pm
its just alex says:
Davon Jefferson is talented.
Dec.5 at 2:04 pm
Ryan Jones says:
I just Youtubed the Hip-Hop Honors stuff. Lupe looks like a little kid. Busta is classic. I’m gonna go listen to Midnight Marauders now.
Dec.5 at 2:12 pm
Myles Brown says:
“I start to flinch as I try not to say it, but my lips is like a ooop as I start to spray it…”
Dec.5 at 2:14 pm
Sam Rubenstein says:
I got into a car crash once listening to Marauders. Can you sue for that?
Dec.5 at 2:15 pm
Bryan says:
They sued peter griffin on Family Guy for his sex books on tape, give it a shot Sam.
Dec.5 at 2:17 pm
Bryan says:
I think OJ Mayo will be a middle of the road star in the league like say a Stephon Marbury , good numbers not many accolades though.
Dec.5 at 2:23 pm
Jared says:
steph used to give em 40 and 12 like it was his job…it was his job…
Dec.5 at 2:25 pm
Ben Osborne says:
Ryan, did you read “What NBA Player Are You?” in the Kobe issue? Lupe/ATCQ was addressed. Can OJ be as good as Monta Ellis? For sure. I’m just saying the hype that Vince refers to makes him out to be the next Kobe. And I say his height precludes that from happening.
Dec.5 at 2:33 pm
Vince says:
Speaking of dude’s height: How tall is Mayo, really? He looks straight-up short. His 6-5 listing is almost laughable. I’m sayin 6-3.
Dec.5 at 2:37 pm
Jukai says:
OJ Mayo will be a Gilbert Arenas. They’re going to play identical. A point guard who’s really good but not best-of-all-time who scores first and sometimes will pass and talks about how much better he is than all the other players in the league. A little less literate than Gilbert though, with more drug based arrests. But a Gilbert Arenas for sure.
Dec.5 at 2:38 pm
nothin personal says:
OJ = Ron Harper. Including the Clippers years.
Dec.5 at 2:45 pm
nothin personal says:
I think he is one of those guys that knows what he should do in every situation, but sometimes he chooses to ignore it, or he doesn’t have the team around him to make it happen. In that, he is similar to the one that could not be named. The difference is, less talent. I expect a few years of great numbers on a sh1tty team, his ego kicks in, becomes third option to two brainless superstars and wins a few titles.
Dec.5 at 2:45 pm
white hot eboy says:
Very harsh, Jukai. nothing personal, even worse. I guess you think he will get rings by being traded late in his career to really good teams with players he was supposed to be on par with in his early career.
Dec.5 at 2:46 pm
Allenp says:
Isn’t Wade like 6′5″?
Dec.5 at 2:47 pm
white hot eboy says:
NP, Michael, Scottie, Kobe and Shaq are all brainless? Whoa.
Dec.5 at 2:53 pm
Allenp says:
NP is right. I watched OJ and when he wanted to make the right play, he made the right play. He understands ball. When he started jacking shots, he made a conscious effort to take over cause the rest of his team was effing up. Nobody noticed that as soon as he hit the bench he team struggled? Or that whenever the team went more than two possessions without him touching the ball things got really hectic? I noticed this. Mayo could easily be Chauncey Billups, easily.
Dec.5 at 2:58 pm
Big L says:
That OJ cover has to be one of the worst ones in Slam history. The King James, the Sin City ones, heck even the Kobe one with the snake were all dope. But my subsciption is to SLAM magazine; not DUBS. The Gary Payton cover has competition.
Dec.5 at 3:04 pm
white hot eboy says:
I always hated the Starks cover.
Dec.5 at 3:06 pm
Jake Appleman says:
Even Ryan Jones will tell you, screw Papoose, McJew is the next big NYC hopeful
Dec.5 at 3:07 pm
Myles Brown says:
Is that emcee Jew, like a rapper or McJew, like a sandwich? Both are intriguing.
Dec.5 at 3:09 pm
Jake Appleman says:
Both. Simultaneously. Although more like than the sandwich than the emcee.
Dec.5 at 3:16 pm
white hot eboy says:
Coincidentally, the Mcdonalds down here just threw that rubber biscuit, the McRib, back on the menu’s here. Huge lettering “FOR A LIMITED TIME” stands along side the value meal listing. Rednecks everywhere rejoice.
Dec.5 at 3:19 pm
nothin personal says:
Shaq and kobe were bickering like 5 year olds. Pippen was always pouting. Amare and Marion behave like id1ots, and forgret they are playing with Steven effing Nash. Kenyon never understood how blessed he was to play with Kidd. Nba players get whinier by the day, and there was only one MJ.
P.s. If Ron Harper sounds like undervaluing Mayo, then do (Ron harper+ Oscar)/2
Dec.5 at 3:28 pm
TJ 3000 says:
How can u ppl not like papoose, and i find nothing oj mayo does against other freshman special since he is pretty much a senior at 22
Dec.5 at 3:31 pm
white hot eboy says:
At one point, Tonto the indian was a papoose, and I liked him.
Dec.5 at 3:37 pm
Ryan Jones says:
Ben: Yes I read it, but it didn’t provide details. Myles and YouTube did.
Allenp: The Chauncey comparison is a definite possibility.
Jukai: The Gilbert comparison really doesn’t hold water.
Jake: If you don’t drop that rhyme you texted me the other night, I’ll be very disappointed.
eboy: Lang loves McRibs, so I guess it is a redneck thing.
And it turns out I’m listening to Aceyalone right now, which is not Tribe, but still beats Lupe. At least Ace One has heard of them.
Dec.5 at 3:40 pm
Jake Appleman says:
I dunno Ryan, I think that’s album material.
Dec.5 at 3:42 pm
white hot eboy says:
Lang, really? You have to love good southern barbecue. That fatty glob is palatable? Please tell me Jones is fuc*king with me.
Dec.5 at 3:57 pm
ben says:
I love McRibs and don’t have a redneck bone in my body. And Vince, I was right next to OJ pregame last night; I think 6-3 is accurate.
Dec.5 at 3:59 pm
Ryan Jones says:
OJ is 6-4 or 6-5.
Dec.5 at 4:24 pm
French toast says:
Bassy is putting 15pg 5assists on the last 5 games. Thats not bad
Dec.5 at 4:44 pm
Ryan Jones says:
Don’t tell anybody, Ft. It’s much cooler if he’s a total bust who the idiots at SLAM hyped for no reason other than we’re all New York d*ck riders. Seriously. Shhhhh….
Dec.5 at 4:52 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
When you blow up a kid as a sixth-grader, the backlash comes quick. OJ probably won’t turn out to be the best player in NBA history, but he won’t be a bust, either. How’s that for taking a stance?
Dec.5 at 4:54 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
In other words, his potential is what it is, and it is what it always has been. But for those who sell newspapers, magazines and stupid cable sports networks, a story that doesn’t change isn’t a story at all. Peaks and valleys are more interesting than a straight diagonal.
Dec.5 at 4:55 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Then again, Tim Thomas was supposed to be the best player in the class of ‘96 and look what happened to him.
Dec.5 at 4:56 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Then AGAIN, if an unheralded dude ended up having Tim Thomas’s career, he’d be able to retire more than satisfied. Hype’s a b*tch.
Dec.5 at 4:56 pm
Bryan says:
Tim Thomas might be the worst bust ever.
Dec.5 at 4:57 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Hahahahaha, no.
Dec.5 at 4:57 pm
Myles Brown says:
Kwame?
Dec.5 at 4:58 pm
Bryan says:
Nah but seriously. It’s a pain in the ass to watch a dude who is 6′10 built like that with that ability not live up to it.It just kills me.
Dec.5 at 4:58 pm
Myles Brown says:
Or Bowie?
Dec.5 at 4:58 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Guarantee I could (with minimal research) name 50 players who were bigger disappointments than Tim Thomas. Probably 10 off the top of my head.
Dec.5 at 4:58 pm
Myles Brown says:
Tractor?
Dec.5 at 4:59 pm
Bryan says:
Say what you want about Kwame but dude has bricks for hands which is a problem. Tim Thomas has no real physical weakness on the basketball court.
Dec.5 at 5:00 pm
Ryan Jones says:
I like it when Russ has conversations with himself.
Dec.5 at 5:00 pm
Bryan says:
Nah I was just being a d*ck I know there are way worse , but shouldn’t Tim Thomas be like an 18 and 7 guy at the least? Am I wrong?
Dec.5 at 5:01 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
I was thinking more Chris Washburn, Mel Turpin, LaRue Martin, Billy Owens, Harold Miner, J.R. Rider…
Dec.5 at 5:02 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Tim Thomas is what we thought he was–a supremely talented athlete who doesn’t give a f*ck.
Dec.5 at 5:03 pm
Bryan says:
JR played up to his ability in spurts , aside from the Lakers series Tim Thomas is complete garbage.
Dec.5 at 5:03 pm
Myles Brown says:
“If you wanna crown him, then crown him!”
Dec.5 at 5:04 pm
Bryan says:
Fugazi.
Dec.5 at 5:04 pm
Myles Brown says:
I consider a bust to be someone who didnt pan out when a far more productive player was available at that particular pick. So I take that back, Kwame wasnt a bust, he just sucks. He was the #1 pick in the 2001 Draft, but look at who was picked after him:Tyson Chandler, Gasol, Curry, JRich, Battier & Eddie Griffin. Ugh.
Dec.5 at 5:04 pm
Bryan says:
Russ Green?
Dec.5 at 5:04 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Tim Thomas didn’t get his max contract with the Bucks just because he had a pretty face. He was the best player on that team some nights, and that’s when Big Dog, Sammy and Jesus were all in their respective primes.
Dec.5 at 5:06 pm
Myles Brown says:
Michael Olowokandi? Bust. Im talkin’ JUGGS Bust. #1 pick of 98 Draft. Who came afterwards? Vince, P Double, Jamison, Dirk, Shard and Al Harrington.
Dec.5 at 5:07 pm
Myles Brown says:
Not that Sterling wouldve paid ANY of them anyway, but still…
Dec.5 at 5:08 pm
Bryan says:
That’s what I’m saying Russ I’m not saying the dude can’t play which makes it worse.I’d rather have a less talented player like a Shane Bttier who gives full effort than a dude like Thomas who while on the Knicks got 3.3(1) rebounds per game. He has all the ability but he’s just a sucker.
Dec.5 at 5:08 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Olowokandi fits into the “ugh” category as well–picked ahead of Bibby, VC, Antawn and P Double.
Dec.5 at 5:12 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Tim Thomas is just a product of the flawed American basketball/’educational’ system–coddled since he showed he had talent, sucked up to by everyone under the sun since before he could drive, and rewarded with several lifetime’s worth of guaranteed millions before he had to convert virtually any of that vast potential into actual skills. At that point, why bother improving any further? See: Curry, Eddy.
Dec.5 at 5:12 pm
Myles Brown says:
Kandi was definitely worse.
Dec.5 at 5:13 pm
Bryan says:
That’s not an excuse at all , where the f*ck is your pride at? How do you feel ok talking sh*t about everyone else when you’re probably the most talented but least productive player of your peers?
Dec.5 at 5:14 pm
Myles Brown says:
Money. Lots and lots of money.
Dec.5 at 5:14 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Imagine if other industries worked like that. Let’s say, for example, that Stephen King showed great promise as a writer in college. And before he even wrote a single novel, a publishing company gave him a $60 million contract right out of school. Guaranteed money, no matter what he wrote. Heck, even if he never wrote a single book, the money was his. Is that a good way to develop talent?
Dec.5 at 5:19 pm
Myles Brown says:
But through self motivation, just as many players thrive under that system. Tim Thomas would’ve been a bumb even if he got paid by the point and rebound. The NBA salary structures are f*cked, but I think dudes of questionable character would be that way regardless.
Dec.5 at 5:21 pm
Bryan says:
But he’s not the only to be anointed like that.Lebron had like 90 million dollar nike contract before he stepped on an NBA floor.What happened to him?Some people want to earn their money some people want to steal it. It’s mental , he’s a punk and a sucker and I wouldn’t pay him a f*cking dime.
Dec.5 at 5:23 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
I agree. But imagine if players were paid based on their output rather than their potential? Guys like KG, AI, LeBron and Kobe would be max guys regardless. They separate themselves with their talent AND their work ethic. And maybe guys like Tim Thomas and Eddy Curry–who obvoiously DO have talent–would work harder in order to earn that higher salary. Wouldn;t it be better for the League as a whole? Heck, a base-level salary could be guaranteed so there’s at least some degree of security.
Dec.5 at 5:24 pm
Bryan says:
I agree with that wholeheartedly, it’s why I sort of understand the non guaranteed contracts in the nfl, if a dude doesn’t earn you get him the f*ck out of there.
Dec.5 at 5:25 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
Or hell, keep giving guys like Kobe and LeBron and KG guaranteed big-money deals. You KNOW they’re gonna earn it no matter what. But why the f*ck any team would sign a guy with questionable motivation to a guaranteed long-term deal is beyond me. Giving Jerome James $5 million a year seems reasonable enough, OK. But for FIVE YEARS? Ugh.
Dec.5 at 5:27 pm
Myles Brown says:
Wonder how Varejo’s productivity will look when he finally signs.
Dec.5 at 5:27 pm
Bryan says:
There’s no way Jerome James or anybody else would get a nickel from me.They would get a non-guaranteed contract and have to play his ass off to stay on my team.
Dec.5 at 5:27 pm
Bryan says:
F*CK VAREJAO!
Dec.5 at 5:31 pm
Bryan says:
I hate that stupid motherf*cker more than anybody else in the league. He’s not Dennis F*cking Rodman.He is a very poor man’s Dennis Rodman if he’s lucky. He can’t shoot dribble or pass.He can hustle and piss off the opposition because he flops and can’t play straight up defense. His best year will be maybe 9 points and 11 boards if he’s lucky.That f*cking as*hole couldn’t score in an empty gym.but…I would still pay him more than Tim Thomas.
Dec.5 at 5:34 pm
Russ Bengtson says:
So, about O.J. Mayo…
Dec.5 at 5:39 pm
Myles Brown says:
Does that taste anything like OJ and toothpaste? Cause I cant stand that.
Dec.5 at 5:54 pm
Cub Buenning says:
I wasn’t able to sift through all of the comments, but thank god I lived in the time of Midnight Marauders. I would categorize myself as a punk-rock/emo/classic rock/hip-hop fan and that record is in my top five, period. Like Ryan, I require an immediate listen. Rose can be a top five point guard in the league in two years (Nash, TParker, CPaul, DWilliams) I was disappointed by the game, as my new love (aka writing a recent piece on the group of guys) for the Tigers has me fiending for UM hoops, and the game kinda disappointed. Scrappy win, nonetheless. I really love CDR’s game translating to a LONG professional career; the dude has no shortcomings.
Dec.5 at 5:56 pm
Ryan Jones says:
Russ gave this post a second life like he was a virtual web world. Or something.
Dec.5 at 7:28 pm
H to the izzo says:
A few things:
1.Bassy has much improved this year,from watching a few Timberwolves games-the team is definitely worse when he’s not on the floor.
2.I’d put Rose over OJ now but he will not be drafted ahead of him for the following reasons:Teams with the top pick in the draft are usually sh*t,they need scoring,shameless,greedy,four point shooting scoring.Not a pass first guard who lets the game come to him and is a freak on the break.But all this doesn’t matter because Mike Beasley will be the first pick.
And lastly:F*ck Lupe.
Dec.5 at 7:38 pm
William says:
CDR has no shortcomings except he can’t create his own shot. Nothing against him — nice guy, nice baller — but he can’t create is own shot. Rose is … well, Rose. All the physical talent in the world. Hops, speed, quick. But he’s not a great shooter and, believe it or not, even though he is a pass-first type player, I don’t think he is all that creative with the rock. Should be a ggod pro, though, with a few All-Star appearances before he’s done. Mayo may not be the greatest athlete — and that will hold him back — but when he’s on, he has the highest B-ball IQ I’ve ever seen in a college freshmen. He’s the one I think can do it all; NO WEAKNESS in his game. My thing is, he SHOULD play point guard in the pros. He can pass, shoot, create, D, whatever! But the thing is, he’s got to learn not to force it. Once he learns to contain himself and play within the system, especially when the game is on the line, he will be great. Possibly even better than Rose. The first thing a point guard must learn is to trust his teammates. I don’tthink Mayo does. I fear he never will. In that case, he will be a bust. Or at least, nothing special. And for the record, Michael Beasley is the best of the bunch!!!!!
Dec.5 at 8:07 pm
Jukai says:
I’d pick Rose over OJ if I had the guys but needed a STAR to lead them (Seattle would dominate if they got Rose). I’d pick OJ if I had literally nobody and needed a star to take over the team (Minnesota truly needs him). I’d take Beasley over either of those two guys, honestly I’d never dreamed that guy would be killing the way he’s killing.
Dec.5 at 8:09 pm
Jukai says:
And honestly, I’d figured Chase Budington would be dominant by now. Under 20 points ain’t doing it for him.
Dec.5 at 8:12 pm
Papoose says:
How dare you question the potential of my Thugacation? Don’t you know I Mr. 1.5..damn I’m nice. Pap….poose –Papoose
Dec.5 at 8:37 pm
Azdabear says:
Sorry I have to rehash things, but things didn’t sit right after reading this. I appreciate the writer’s attempt at making corollaries (almost as much as his self-congratulatory appreciation of Lupe), but I find it hard to believe anyone could be struck by any sort of epiphany watching that game. Mayo seems like he has the skill, the physical tools and possibly the swag to warrant a rep, hoodrich or otherwise. He also seems to, at times, play to the finer points of the game; the glaring flaw seems to be his lack of understanding of what a high percentage shot is for him. Right now, he seems more Larry Hughes (who did look good at St. Louis) than a Magic/Jason Kidd transcendent, although that comparison may bode ill for an NBA projection, at least it’s not straying into Felipe Lopez territory.
Rose looked like his offense was dictated by that junk triangle and 2 defense that was Tim Floyd’s sole strategic contribution to the game: he tried to distribute at first, then struggled in trying to find a way to drive while not running into the back three waiting for him with no refs to bail out any sort of contact. So the freshmen struggled. It should still be expected, regardless of their hype and how disappointing it was to watch the ugly play out. Both have much better days ahead. And for the record, USC’s talent is not that disparate from Memphis. Despite winning, Floyd has written the book on how to play them, it’s on Calipari to find a way to help his frosh and CDR adjust: maybe finding some else to hit a 3 consistently will keep them from disappointing in March.
Dec.5 at 10:44 pm
Luke says:
I’m on the Pat Mills @ St Mary’s bandwagon, hopefully slam comes along for the ride shortly. Nice article Vincent.
Dec.6 at 12:24 am
Ben Osborne says:
As promised, full Game Notes went up early this evening: http://slamonline.com/online/2007/12/game-notes-usc-vs-memphis/
Dec.6 at 8:30 am
Harlem_World says:
I can’t stand papoose. Overrated, irritating and the ‘next…’ nothing. Putting him in any category of NYC ‘greats’ is like comparing Richard Jefferson to a Hall Of Famer. No. Not on any level. Shut it down.
Dec.6 at 10:26 am
Ryan Jones says:
Chase BUDDINGER, Jukai.
Dec.6 at 10:41 am
Jared says:
Cub where’s JKidd? Dude’s gettin old but he doesn’t fall off… And Ryan nobody, sh!t at least not me, said Bassy’s a total bust, all I said is dude has been on 3 covers and what has he done as a pro? Avging 15 and 5 over 5 games…he’s definitely lived up to his hype, you’re right. I have nothing against dude, I want him to succeed, and I don’t think he sucks, my argument was that you (not you Ryan, but SLAM, even tho you were Ed) said he was next (he was on a cover of your come-up issue alternating with DWIGHT HOWARD!) but that you need the build to be next, and that he didn’t have a build. I was just saying, how come OJ cant be a star due to his build, but Bassy could? I’m not saying he’s a bust, but he’s been on 3 teams in 4 seasons and hasn’t shown much anywhere he’s been. Am I wrong? And If you think people are on this board cause they think you’re idiots then you guys need to be humbled, because you know everyone on this magazine loves your magazine/site/coverage. Get over it.
Dec.6 at 12:14 pm
Ryan Jones says:
Wait — did I say OJ can’t be a star? Seriously, man, I’m not even sure what we’re arguing about anymore.
Dec.6 at 12:27 pm
Jared says:
You didn’t say OJ wouldn’t be a star, I guess I’m debating two arguments on the same front, so my B about that…the argument was made that OJ couldn’t be a star on the premise of him not having the build, in which I rebuted with Bassy being hyped as a star saying he had the build, but was told he didn’t have the build, but he was still hyped as a star without the build, which OJ apparently lacks as well because he isn’t tall enough, so I ask how come OJ can’t be a “star?” but telfair can, then the whole Bassy argument followed…and here we are. How bout Ivo goin nuts last night?
Dec.6 at 12:42 pm
Ryan Jones says:
Yeah, we need to change the subject. My head is spinning. Allen Iverson playing his ass off in a loss. Story of his life.
Dec.6 at 12:47 pm
Jared says:
It sucks man, why can’t that team get it together? I’ve watched them a couple of times…what are they missing? K-Mart is so erratic, I don’t see why they don’t just apply a transition, run n gun offense, they have the tools…I hate the rest of the team but I’d love to see AI and Gumby get rings…
Dec.6 at 1:11 pm
Cub Buenning says:
Jared, in TWO years, I don’t see Kidd as an elite PG. I love him now, and surely consider him in that class. The Nuggets are just so sporadic with their output on defense. They have no inside offensive presence (as portrayed by Marcus’ 0-20 Rodmanesque line)and for some reason JR Smith thinks he is #3 or #15.
Jared, you hate Eduardo Najera? You must not like basketball.
Dec.6 at 1:12 pm
m banga says:
pap is tuff mayo ok and mayo gets alot of props for being another overgrown bearded 19 year old pap aint even got a video out or a cd so i dont see the comparisons basketball will never reach the level of bird vs magic or jordan vs the pistons tey got to much cheese it takes away there heart somethin like jiggaman they commercialized though that one battle between bron bron and dwade bout 2 years ago was classic but besides that ???? Maybe Durant can bring it back, or KOBE (the only real killa in the L)
Dec.6 at 1:23 pm
m banga says:
maybe yung joc or gorrilla zoe of the game????
never pap
Dec.6 at 1:25 pm
Jared says:
I like him as a player, but I dislike the team as a whole (minus AI who has been my favorite player since he was a frosh at GTown) because of my status as a die hard knicks fan, and i think Melo’s a b!tch who likes to slap and run, good ball player, but how you gonna do Mardy like that? You don’t brawl in the garden and walk away with compassion from a knicks fan. Although seeing Najera pull from beyond the arc is absolutely one of basketballs greatest occurances…period
Dec.6 at 1:40 pm
m banga says:
anytime AI is at the poit the team is going 2 suffer if would just sacrifice like the 1st game of the season they would b dope we knoe he can score but melo is better b a real pg 4 once n your life ai and get a ring
Dec.6 at 2:10 pm
Cub Buenning says:
Jared, for what it’s worth, they frustrate me to no end….. I feel like Bill Murray in Groundhog’s Day.
Dec.6 at 2:15 pm
deestarbuckz says:
Gawd damn Hawaii time… by time I read a post it’s five to six hours old! Watching JR Smith is maddening. I lived used to live in CO and go to Nuggets games. JR Smith is just frustrating. Lost on defense, missing rotations, whiffing on steals in the lane and exposing the help side. Argh… then trying to make up for it on the next possession by pulling up from 30 feet! Sorry, it’s a rant… I’ll go catch up on the other posts!
Dec.6 at 2:23 pm
Jared says:
But Cub…do you get to wake up and see Chris Elliot everyday?
Dec.6 at 2:29 pm
Cub Buenning says:
i could only be so lucky. I do have a nice Get a Life collection, however. dee, don’t stop! Those drives into the lane late in the game? There’s more in there….
0 points, 1 reb., 0 assists…. keep going.
Dec.6 at 3:01 pm
deestarbuckz says:
I feel you Cub… laughing and giggling through timeouts. Ignoring set plays… as if the Nuggets have alot of those… Horrible defense, way to let Kobe drive the lane with NO EFFORT! Everyone knows that Kobe was going to go strong, he didn’t even put forth an effort!
Dec.6 at 4:03 pm
Deez Noots says:
wow. hotheads. how come nobody noticed the use of a 5-star Roget’s Thesaurus in the beginning of the article and then the complete lack of good writing in the end??? Snap. Is that white slang or black? Someone at Maxim needs to trace back the evolution of all the corniest slang in history, that’d be ill. Yo Jared, stop writing so much every post. Yeah, that hypocrisy, I know. And wouldn’t that whole article be considered a sort of anti-hype reverse psychology hype machine?? –Knowledge
Dec.18 at 6:28 pm
dsfsdgd says:
pap the best!!most versitle
Dec.19 at 6:31 am
lupe fiasco the cool lyrics says:
[…] OJ Mayo: The Papoose of basketball? […]
Jun.25 at 12:05 am
Bdub says:
vincent your boy lupe loves papoose. real recognize real. paps your favorite rappers favorite rapper so dont speak on the rap game. as a matter of fact dont speak on mayo either cause he’s going to be a top 3 pick in the draft come thursday. And both him and pap gonna be here for the next 10 years playing major roles in both the nba game and the rap game
Jun.25 at 12:08 am
Bdub says:
stop hating!!!! you get enraged to hear that people like papoose? well get used to it cause people in the hood and in the suburbs are bumping his music all day, everyday.