May.31 at 11:11 am

Dblizzy! says:
Wilt
Michael
Magic
Kareem
Russell

May.31 at 11:12 am

Dblizzy! says:
Not necessarily in that order.

May.31 at 11:12 am

Cub Buenning says:
Bird’s hairy combo, the worst? Or Best, depending on your point of view.
Agreed on Duncan slipping in behind your correct top 7 choices.
Circa 1989, myself and a friend spent 85 bones each on one pack of 84 fleer bball cards. My buddy pulled MJ, Barkley, Mullin, and Malone (all rookie cards, as no hoops cards had been made since Mag/Bird’s first year.) He took 500 for the MJ on spot. My pack? I think Steve Stipanovich or Vern Fleming were the best cards i got…..

May.31 at 11:13 am

H to the izzo says:
First person to claim that Kobe’s in the top 5 gets a prize and possibly several long-winded lectures one which will be made by me.

May.31 at 11:15 am

Cub Buenning says:
Magic, MJ, Bird, Kareem, Russell

May.31 at 11:15 am

H to the izzo says:
Dblizzy how can you have Magic without Bird?

May.31 at 11:15 am

Russ Bengtson says:
I just realized I didn’t even give my five. Oops. I’d go with Jordan, Oscar, Russell, Wilt and Cap, I guess. Although it hurts to leave Larry and Magic out in the cold. It’s so hard to split those seven, IMO. Too close to call.

May.31 at 11:16 am

OneShot says:
Hi Mr Chamberlain, you don’t know me, but you may remember my mum . . .

May.31 at 11:19 am

Russ Bengtson says:
Oscar Robertson and Bill Russell amaze me even that much more given the climate they grew up in. Players today travel on chartered jets and stay in four-star hotel suites. Those guys flew coach, had roommates on the road, and because of their race endured hardships that today’s players couldn’t even imagine. Ultimate respect to them.

May.31 at 11:21 am

Russ Bengtson says:
I’d also like to add that my Photoshop game is tight.

May.31 at 11:23 am

Decs says:
just wondering how you can win 5 mvps and only be on the all-nba first team 3 times, doesnt make a lot of sense.

May.31 at 11:32 am

OneShot says:
Can’t forget Kareem’s fight with Lee in Game of Death!

May.31 at 11:39 am

H to the izzo says:
I would have thought that this topic would have attracted a bit more interest.Damn you Kobe

May.31 at 11:50 am

Myung says:
Since I never saw the older stars play in their day, it’s hard for me to comment on them. I definitely have much respect the likes of Dr. J, Wilt, Kareem, Russell, Oscar, West, etc, but it’s really hard for me to comment on them in comparison to the stars I grew up watching (mid 80’s til now). So my five would consist of the players of my generation. MJ.
Magic.
Bird.
Shaq.
Duncan. Hard to leave off Hakeem, Malone, Barkley, Pip, and Isiah…

May.31 at 11:58 am

Steve O says:
Top 5 all time:
Magic
MJ
Big O
Russell
Wilt but its tough not to put Bird or Kareem up there too. Duncan would barely be #10 IMO.

May.31 at 11:59 am

Dblizzy! says:
I don’t know Izzo, Bird was great, he’s probably six or seven on my list, but I couldn’t leave out Kareem, he was too great for too long. And he’s from NY. But what do I know???

May.31 at 12:04 pm

Reggie Evans says:
Magic
MJ
Wilt
Kareem
Kobe

May.31 at 12:07 pm

Nadav says:
EmJay
Magic
Wilt
Russel
Shaq

May.31 at 12:09 pm

Allenp says:
I think you can argue that Duncan beats out Malone, Shaq, Bird, and Oscar. I know that sounds crazy, but hear me out. On shear numbers he compares favorable to all of those guys, his consitency is legendary. More importantly, his really dominant phase has been over a long period of time and he has managed to win just as many rings as Shaq and Bird.
I think Duncan is the best at his position ever. I don’t think I can really say he’s better than Russell and Chamberlain. there is an argument to made about Shaq, but I like how Duncan has still been able to dominate even with slipping athletiscism, and he has suffered far fewer injuries in his career, while causing far less team strife. MIchael, Magic, Duncan, Russell, Wilt.

May.31 at 12:13 pm

Allenp says:
Kareem was also hard one to leave out of the top five, but i don’t think he truly edges out Wilt and Russell as the best at his position of all time. Damn, Duncan or Kareem is a hard one. I think they had similiar skills, but I think Duncan was the superior defender. Plus, Kareem played with a lot of talent in his career.

May.31 at 12:15 pm

Nadav says:
Ryan,
Magic and Larry were drafted in different years…

May.31 at 12:15 pm

Nadav says:
And by Ryan, I mean Russ

May.31 at 12:19 pm

Russ Bengtson says:
Yes they were, but they still were rookies at the same time. Bird was drafted in ‘78 despite the fact that he was going back to school—there was some loophole in the rule, and Red Auerbach exploited the hell out of it.

May.31 at 12:22 pm

Nadav says:
Ah, I see.
The good ol days, when R.O.Y. was interesting…

May.31 at 12:24 pm

Russ Bengtson says:
Bill Cartwright was a rookie that year too. Averaged 22 points and nine boards per. If it was any other year, maybe somebody would have even noticed.

May.31 at 12:27 pm

dez says:
Jason Collins better be everyone’s #6

May.31 at 12:31 pm

Dblizzy! says:
Decs, that happens when you have a guy named Wilt around. Doesn’t make sense though, that’s why all-nba should just be the top five players that year and not by position.

May.31 at 12:35 pm

Nadav says:
maybe the probelm of post season awards being given for the regular season and not the playoffs was born then. After that Finals series now way Magic wasn’t getting the award.

May.31 at 12:40 pm

Redrum says:
MJ
Magic
Bird (or Kobe)
Duncan
Shaq (or Russell or Wilt) I have said before that if the Spurs win another ring or two, I am putting TD in the upper echelon of the two MJs, maybe, possibly second only to Air.. there has not been a player (since the early 80s I have been following the NBA) apart from MJ and TD so dominant in BOTH sides of the court, and so clutch, so competitive, leading their teams both emotionally and on the court.

May.31 at 12:44 pm

Max Airington says:
Jordan, Magic, Bird, Russell & Stilt.

May.31 at 12:58 pm

Redrum says:
and another thing… I think it is incorrect to include players from the 50s,60s and 70s in the discussion, based on their stats and rings. It was completely different game. First of all, the stats are skewed due to much more scoring and possesions per game (hence more assists and rebounds). Also in the Russell - Chamberlain era, there were only 9-10 teams, and no salary cap, hence the Celtics dynasty. I think we should divide the NBA into 2 eras : BS (before Stern) and AS (after Stern)… if one does same research, they will see that since the mid-80s, scoring averages and posessions per game, although variable, they are pretty much similar.

May.31 at 12:59 pm

KobeFan4Lyfe24 says:
As of right now my five all time greats are: MJ
WILT
OSCAR
BILL
MAGIC However, by then end of his career KB24 will be in that group. He will then have more rings and win the MVP honor, not to mention many more scoring titles to come. Just you watch and see!!!!!

May.31 at 1:11 pm

Jack says:
If you extend the list to Top 10, then add (in this order) : Jerry West (Mr. Clutch), Karl Malone (second all-time scorer), Elgin Baylor (revolutionalized the way the game was played) followed by Shaq or Kobe. If you want to go back a little further, Bob Pettit (who probably very few people alive today can claim they saw him play).

May.31 at 1:17 pm

K22C says:
I so gave you this Idea. tell me I did.

May.31 at 1:19 pm

Jack says:
One more thing … If you include the ABA careers of NBA players, then without a doubt Julius Erving moves into the Top 10, probably ahead of Karl Malone on my list. I saw him play alot, esp. in the ABA days. He was MJ before MJ. When he moved to the NBA Philly 76ers, the Sixer’s had some great teams but played in the Laker/Celtic era. And the Philly teams underachieved. But Dr. J was almost always spectacular. If you add his ABA totals to the NBA numbers, then he goes over 30,000 points scored. Not too shabby.

May.31 at 1:23 pm

K22C says:
Also I think it is hard to compare the new players with the old. Back in Wilt’s day NO ONE was tall. I mean I think it is harder to put up great numbers in this day in age rather than before. That is what makes Kobe in my opinion one of the best. MJ too. But not Oscar or Bird. Magic is like this decades J-KIDD Idk just my thoughts.

May.31 at 1:45 pm

thomas says:
agreed with everything until..hold on..did i read that right? wait..yes…mygod malone over duncan..!? you’re going to have to explain that one Russ.

May.31 at 1:45 pm

Kadavour says:
positions not withstanding: Wilt
Kobe
Dream
MJ
Garnett (yea, i said it)

May.31 at 2:43 pm

Tom says:
I can only go by players who I’ve seen play, no disrespect to all the old legends
1)MJ
2)Cap
3)Magic
4)Bird
5)Hakeem (If you combine russells defense with Kareems offense, you get Dream)

May.31 at 3:04 pm

Dblizzy! says:
Hakeem is one of the most underrated players ever.

May.31 at 3:13 pm

H to the izzo says:
How could anyone ever justify putting Kobe into a top five or even top ten all time list.His game is basically a lesser MJ.So much of his offense and the way he plays the game is just borrowed from MJ,he has all of MJ’s game but just not as good.Do you ever see copies of great paintings on the walls of art galleries-no then why would you have a copy of a great player in the top ten. Also I feel Pistol Pete would be a shoe in if he had won something but I guess that arguement could be made about a lot of players

May.31 at 3:14 pm

H to the izzo says:
Hakeem is the most under-appreciated talent of all time

May.31 at 4:30 pm

Ryan Jones says:
In order:
1. Magic
2. LeBron
3. Kobe
4. Magic
5. LeBron
Sixth Man: Magic

May.31 at 4:31 pm

Ryan Jones says:
Almost forgot…
Coach: LeBron

May.31 at 4:31 pm

Ryan Jones says:
And I’d probably try to find room for that high school pole vaulter chick on there, too.

May.31 at 4:31 pm

Allenp says:
H is right about the dream. top centers of all time Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq.

May.31 at 4:37 pm

Young Chris #3 says:
Diesel’s better than Wilt AND Russell. I know it’s not the politically correct thing to say, but it’s true. Bill Russell was not a sole force whatsoever, he was the third option on offense on every team he ever played for, if not lower than that. Diesel was THE MAN. Wilt ALSO was THE MAN on his teams, but how many rings did he win again? Oh yeah, that’s right… My bad… Men lie, women lie, numbers don’t. Russ might have more rings than anybody ever (and I won’t even get into the era game because that would just make the argument unarguable, in regards to both legends), but he was no where near the force that Shaq is and was. If in 30 years, Diesel isn’t WIDELY considered the greatest to ever do it, then the basketball history books are going to be just as questionable as American History books in high schools and middle schools.

May.31 at 4:40 pm

Young Chris #3 says:
And izzo, even if Kobe is a “lesser MJ,” he is still better than pretty much EVERYONE else. And to counter ur “art argument,” the post-modern era in itself argues that all art has already been done, all new ideas have been had and everything anyone ever thinks up or does, pretty much for the rest of time, will be a reiteration and not an innovation.

May.31 at 4:43 pm

Steve O says:
KG top 5? no way. He’ll be one of the greats when its all said and one but not Top 5. (unless he wins a ton of rings)

May.31 at 4:50 pm

Holiday says:
Seems to me somebody might put the GREATEST point guard of all time on there list, ya know that 6 foot nothing 185 pound white guy that hold’s the Assist and steals all time records! Just a thought, I mean I don’t wanna discredit Magic or anything but 6′9 and a true point gaurds job is to make everybody around him better! Not that Magic didn’t do it but Stockton perfected it!

May.31 at 4:55 pm

Young Chris #3 says:
Bill Russell won 11 championships with THE BOSTON CELTICS who were a great TEAM, where they had Tommy Heinsohn, Bill Sharman, Bob Cousy, Sam Jones, John Havlicek, and Bailey Howell being the big-time scorers throughout that 11 championship reign. Bill Russell was never the main guy. He was the defensive enforcer no doubt, but without any of those guys putting numbers up on the offensive end, those championships are put in jeopardy QUICK!

May.31 at 4:56 pm

Holiday says:
And I mean that in the sense of what I believe a true point guard is! Magic in a sense was like a more rounded and talented Amare “in a sense” ya know the point-center thing a couple years ago! If anything Lebron is the new Magic or the closest to him, like Kobe is the new Jordan, and I guess Dirk is the new Bird! Thats a good topic “who most emulates the legends of the past”!

May.31 at 4:57 pm

Mike C. says:
I didn’t read all the comments, so someone else might have already posted this. I put Duncan ahead of Malone. Duncan and Malone both have had incredibly consistent careers. Malone was more of a scorer than Duncan is, was, or will be, but you get the feeling that Duncan could score more, but that’s not how he’s programmed and that’s not part of the Spurs’ operating system. I’d say they’re on par as defenders, with Duncan being a notch above Malone because of his shot blocking skills. The main thing that puts Duncan above Malone is the multiple rings to Malone’s zero rings. Duncan isn’t done either. Right now I’d put him above Malone and Duncan has a legit shot at adding 2 or 3 more rings to his collection before he’s done.

May.31 at 5:00 pm

Holiday says:
Replying to what YOUNG CHRIS #3, that’s true but in the same sense Jordan couldn’t win without pippen and ker, Hakeem couldn’t do it without Horry and Kenny Smith ect! Hell he couldn’t do it with Drexler, Barkley, and Pippen!

May.31 at 5:00 pm

Young Chris #3 says:
“Men lie, women lie, numbers don’t” - Jay Where’s my man Khalid at? I got u though, cuz like dude said on March 20 of this year: “Several of you have put together lists of who you think the best ever should consist of. Cool. I hope that when it comes to players of our parents generation you have more than just stats and word of mouth to go by. You better undertand context. Yeah i know Wilt did this and did that but if you think Shaq wouldn’t have done the same or better you are crazy. Say what you want but i put Shaq over everyone except MJ.” http://slamonline.com/online/2007/03/kobe-is-top-10-all-time-accept-it/ Oh, and as for who’s in my 5? By position? C: Diesel
PF: Duncan
SF: Larry Bird
SG: MJ
PG: Magic All-time (regardless of position)? 1. MJ
2. Diesel
3. Magic
4. Russell
5. Big O

May.31 at 5:02 pm

Lang Whitaker says:
MJ, Bird, Magic, Russell, Wilt. if you vote for anyone else you don’t understand basketball.

May.31 at 5:05 pm

Young Chris #3 says:
Holiday, ur right, you need a team to win, but my point wasn’t that Shaq did it all by himself and Russell didn’t, it was that Russell wasn’t even the main option on ANY of his teams. His highest scoring percentage was 18.9 and he is a career 15ppg for career and 16ppg for playoffs. He was consistently the third or fourth option. Shaq was ALWAYS first or second option (first his whole career except the last 3-4 years). Jordan was ALWAYS first option. Wilt didn’t win much when he was dominating the league either. Like I said though, and keep in mind, if you wanna play the era game, there’s no comparison whatsoever.

May.31 at 5:19 pm

Boing Dynasty says:
Thumbs up to that pole vaulter.

May.31 at 5:20 pm

Boing Dynasty says:
Lang, you sure Ty Lue dosent make that list?

May.31 at 5:25 pm

ikemob22 says:
Any list is fine with me as long as Leborn isnt on it!.. hater>>>> =ME!

May.31 at 5:26 pm

ikemob22 says:
and KOBE no matter where he plays should be on it!

May.31 at 5:27 pm

W. Mack says:
For whoever in these comments are belittling what Russell did because of the era that he played in and because of the players around him, ponder this: They were as good as they were because of Bill Russell. You saw Scottie Pippen play without Michael Jordan. He was good, but not great. Much of the same for Horace Grant. Great players make the good players around them great also. Take Bird away from the 80s Celtics and we talk about Kevin McHale as a good power forward, Dennis Johnson and Robert Parrish as serviceable journeymen. As Russ mentioned, Russell was the first to use defense as an offense. When people think of the Celtics of the 60s-early 70s, they think back door cuts, pick and rolls, etc. But the truth is that they had a very high octane offense that scored a large percentage of its points from fast breaks. These fast breaks started with a Russell block or a rebound. Hell, half the time, he’d catch the ball instead of blocking it. And Hondo, Cous, Jones, and the rest were just cherry-picking, snow-birding, running the rabbit or whatever you call it in your neck of the woods. As far as Shaq being the greatest center to ever play…..not so much. He is without question, the single most dominant force to ever lace them up. But he’s not the greatest. Reserve that talk for Russell & Stilt. Greatness is combining God-given talent with relentless work ethic. (see Michael Jeffery Jordan). Now be real. When you think of Shaq, is work ethic the first thing that comes to your mind?

May.31 at 5:49 pm

Myung says:
I’m not one of those, “The modern day players are way better than the old timers who played against a bunch of white guys half their size” kind of guys. A player is a player, regardless of what era he played in. I recently visited the Mecca which is the Basketball HOF in Springfield, Mass, and I admit I was amused at how many players with underwhelming stats are actually enshrined in the Hall. Probably a good 1/3 of the guys in there are guys (and girls) most of us have never heard of. However, I still have much respect for every player, coach, and announcer in the HOF because of their contributions to the greatest game in the world. Respect earned. That being said, my list from earlier today (MJ, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Duncan) only included the players I have seen for most (if not all) of their careers. No doubt Wilt and Kareem and Russell deserve their places on some people’s lists, but I just feel utterly unqualified to compare players from different eras, considering I’ve never even seen them play (other than a few highlights here and there), and though I’ve obviously seen their stats, we all know that stats aren’t everything, when discussing the greatest of the greatest of the greatest. I’m thinking the most qualified people are those who are in their 50’s and up, people who’ve actually SEEN all the great players of the past 50 years and who can say who are the top five of ALL TIME. Are there any SLAMonline commenters over 50? I’m curious.

May.31 at 6:02 pm

CBeezy says:
Wilt chamberlain is my dad

May.31 at 6:17 pm

ikemob22 says:
Can we discuss our fav most post game players… bcuz that list would be more funny and since its such a nice sunny SoCal day i’d like a lighter topic? pleaseee? not to mention im at work and id would make 4:30 come alot faster

May.31 at 6:18 pm

Myung says:
LOL, CBeezy. =) You have 19,999 other siblings too…

May.31 at 6:19 pm

Young Chris #3 says:
Beezy’s stupid, lol hahaha…

May.31 at 6:20 pm

Young Chris #3 says:
And W. Mack, I wasn’t belittling Russell, I do think he was an amazing player and he deserves his due. I just think that as far as the greatest Center of all time goes, The Diesel is it.

May.31 at 6:48 pm

ALX8725 says:
This feature practically speaks for itself. For a player to be considered the greatest of all time, you essentially need a ring or more (with the exception of Wilt, for obvious reasons). History is written by the winners.

May.31 at 7:00 pm

whooo! says:
i guess it’s different if you go by position or simply 5 greatest ever. if you go by position, i think duncan gets in simply as the best pf ever, but not top 5 all-time. ppl gotta start thinking him top-10 though, cuz if you look at his teams he’s won rings with, they’re radically different. also, aside from d-rob nearing the end of his career, can we consider anyone else he’s played w/ a hall of famer?………………. and how the hell did anyone even mention kg in this conversation!?

May.31 at 7:03 pm

Young Chris #3 says:
Stephen Jackson is on point about the Duncan being the best 4 ever, but not one of the top 5 of all time

May.31 at 7:24 pm

Dennard says:
Jordan
Wilt
Russell
Robertson
Magic

May.31 at 7:26 pm

Dennard says:
Duncan is top 15 right now, and he may crack the top 10. As far as an offensive/defensive player combination, he is top ten already maybe top 5.(IMO)

May.31 at 8:00 pm

Russ Bengtson says:
I would actually put Duncan ahead of Malone at this point (I won’t go back and edit) just because of the rings. Tim Duncan is a WINNER, period. And who knows how many chips the man will have by the time he hangs ‘em up? Breaking down a top five by position is difficult, because what position did Oscar play? While it’s tempting to call him a point guard, he averaged so many points and rebounds that he could slot in anywhere from 1-3. Mr. Versatility.

May.31 at 8:04 pm

Russ Bengtson says:
And yeah, Dream’s up there too. One of the best I ever saw do it.

May.31 at 8:24 pm

cloud strife says:
60-70 is damn too far for this generation, we never saw them play before. so i’ll choose …..j-kidd[pg],kb24[sg],kg[sf],timmy-D[pf],shaq’o'neal[c] whatever that’s my comment

May.31 at 8:24 pm

Dennard says:
Really I don’t think you can classify Duncan as just a 4. I mean the dude is really a center, but he guards and is defended by both centers and PF. Anyway you slice it the Robot is just damn good.

May.31 at 8:54 pm

Holiday says:
I really don’t buy into the fact that the ring’s make’s Duncan a better power forward, because he had alot more to work with, you know he began his career with a mentor like the Admiral, and decent market team were malone didn’t have a mentor and was in Utah! The Jazz couldn’t ever get anybody to come play there! and even though he had stockton there hardly anything else, Hornicek was good but Ostertag, Foster, Eisley, Antione Carr come on now anybody would take Ginobli, Oberto, Bowan, Finley, Horry, among other’s from other year’s over them! Now I won’t say that either is better but ring’s don’t flat out make you better! I mean is Horry a better PF than Barkley was cause he has like 5 or 6 rings?

May.31 at 9:05 pm

Chukaz says:
Kobe is top 3 all-time along with MJ and Magic/Bird (your choice). Damn you haters. And my man Kwame Brown, oh yeah, should be top 5 all-time (draft bust, that is)

May.31 at 9:12 pm

gabriel says:
no ofence but that five is bad redew it and make it
shaq
mj
ai
lbj
pipen

May.31 at 9:16 pm

Chukaz says:
I agree with Holiday. Rings are nice but when is all set and done they don’t matter that much. Horry is not a better PF than Malone, Sir Charles, Duncan or KG. Russel ain’t better than Shaq. As for Wilt, the man got it done when there was a bunch of white players who couldn’t jump, most players where not strong or athletic. Are you gonna tell me that Shaq wouldn’t average 50 ppg and 30 rpg back then. Back in the day players didn’t box out when a shot went up and players didn’t jump when they shot (it’s called a set shot, people).

May.31 at 9:19 pm

Chukaz says:
Gabriel I don’t know if I agree with you about Bron yet and I don’t like pip, but I like AI in there. Throw Kobe and KG in there and that should be a good top 5 all-time

May.31 at 9:19 pm

W.Mack says:
Duncan best 4 ever?!?! Da hell??? Did you ever see Charles Barkley play? How about Karl Malone? Elvin Hayes? Yes. Timmy’s GREAT. I’m taking absolutely nothing from him, but it’s not a complete whitewash as some would have you believe.

May.31 at 9:31 pm

Chukaz says:
What’s wrong with you, son. Duncan is better than all those suckers you just mentioned. KG is the best PF ever, period. Duncan is second with Dirk right behind then at the 25 spot.

May.31 at 9:33 pm

Chukaz says:
I meant behind them not then. SORRY!!!

May.31 at 9:38 pm

Chukaz says:
I already knew that Daniel Gibson nickname was given to him by his mom but I just learned that he earned it because he was a cry baby

May.31 at 9:41 pm

Chukaz says:
Come on boobie, you got six points by half time all being freebees. Step yo game up BOOBIE!!!!

May.31 at 9:41 pm

Jack says:
W. Mack - good point on the forgotten Elvin Hayes. I saw alot of the Big “E” and he was a great power forward. Great college career, too. Now as far as those who say Wilt had it easy in his time, you simply are showcasing your ignorance. Read thru my yahoo group on Wilt : http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/wiltchamberlain/ or take a look at some of the youtube vidoes featuring Wilt. As an athlete, he has no comparison among basketball players. The guy was a college champion (Big Eight) while at Kansas in high jump and shot put !! Some of the numbers he put up as a track athlete are incredible. Then, later in his career, when he started working out, he was lifting more weight than Shaq ever will. While at Kansas, Wilt dunked on a 12 foot basket. You think Shaq or Duncan can do that ?? On the youtube videos, take a look at the blocked shots at minute 1:04 and the one on Kareem at 1:56 of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ab6Tex4H1Y. One of the reasons Wilt put up incredible numbers is because he played practically every minute of every game he played in. Never fouled out of a game, because his superior athleticm allowed him to block shots from far away. Don’t get me started.

May.31 at 10:31 pm

Chukaz says:
Jack there is a reason why Wilt was a superior athelete, there weren’t any great athletes back in the day. Tell me where was Kobe, Vince, Bron, DWade, Baron Davis, Michael Jordan, Charles Barkley, KG, Clyde Drexler. Elgin Baylor was considered a great athlete back then, but if you see a guy as atheletic as Elgin Baylor now you don’t think the guy is a good athlete. Athletic guys back in the day weren’t athletic Jack.

May.31 at 10:43 pm

whooo! says:
w.mack - charles barkeley HIMSELF said that tim duncan is the greatest 4 ever! he also said it’s hard for him to say cuz it means he’s saying someone’s better than him, but he flat out called him the best pf ever on tnt.

Jun.1 at 12:39 am

Ryan Jones says:
My five, updated at 12:35 am on Friday, June 1, 2007:
1. LeBron
2. LeBron
3. LeBron
4. LeBron
5. LeBron
Sixth Man: LeBron

Jun.1 at 12:52 am

Chukaz says:
Ryan after seeing what Bron did in game 5, I must agree. Wait, that not true.
1. Kobe
2. KB24
3. Mamba
4. Bron
5. Bron Jr.

Jun.1 at 12:59 am

Ryan Jones says:
Who’s Kobe?

Jun.1 at 1:20 am

Chukaz says:
Ryan, don’t hate on Kobe. The man is the greatest player the game has ever seen.

Jun.1 at 2:59 am

Nothin_personal says:
About that Duncan-Malone stuff. Duncan is a PF because he claims to be a PF. He wants to be next to another big body, because when somebody else isn’t doing the dirty work, he is always in foul trouble. (This is an argument in favor of DRob’s greatness, too). Malone benefited greatly by Stockton’s passing, but he was doing his stuff for 18 years, and that’s what I call concinstency, had an all-around game, and he had to battle with Magic, Bird, Dream, Shaq and MJ throughout his career. Do you think Duncan would have many rings or MVPs in that era? (the era of great Centers, no less)

Jun.1 at 3:58 am

Nothin_personal says:
I can’t pick a top-5 all time, but I know who would I take with me in a time machine game against ET all stars(!!!):
#12 Stockton, John
#32 Johnson, Earvin
#23 Jordan, Michael,
#1 Robertson, Oscar
#24 Barry, Rick
#33 Pippen, Scottie
#6 Erving, Julius
#33 Bird, Larry
#32 Malone, Karl
#34 Olajuwon, Hakeem
#6 Russell, Bill
#13 Chamberlain, Wilt
And I am leaving out Cousy, Barckley, Kareem, to include a shot chucker like Barry, just because I need a shooter at 2 (and because he is thre closest thing to a singlehandedly won championship).
P.S. To paraphraze Solon the Athenean, you can’t judge a player before his career is over, thus excluding Kobe, TD, Shaq and (obviously) Lebron

Jun.1 at 4:14 am

Nothin_personal says:
Pippen or Havlicek or maybe even Elgin Baylor? I am taking this too seriously!

Jun.1 at 7:38 am

Ryan Jones says:
“The man is the greatest player the game has ever seen.”
Then why can’t he get his team out of the first round in his prime?

Jun.1 at 8:54 am

W. Mack says:
About this power forward thing, yes, Chuck is going to say that to defer to Timmy. Sure he is. Peyton Manning says all the time that Eli is better than him, but I don’t see it.
And the thought that Wilt and all those guys being superior athletes at that time was because of the lack of athletes around them…..that’s not his fault. He worked with what he was given. In 30 years, it may be commonplace that every point guard is 6′10″ (at the rate we’re going, it wouldn’t surprise me), but I wouldn’t think that Stockton couldn’t run circles around him if it were 1992. Times change, but some greatness transcends generations.

Jun.1 at 9:08 am

Young Chris #3 says:
John Stockton wasn’t even the best point guard in the league during his time. Have you forgot this dude, he just won a championship last year with Miami? They called him “The Glove.”

Jun.1 at 9:13 am

Jack says:
Chukaz: As far as Wilt the athlete : http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/wiltchamberlain/message/91 “In track and field,
he high jumped 6 feet 6 inches, ran the 440 in 49.0 seconds, ran the
880 in 1:58.3, threw the shotput 53 feet 4 inches, and long jumped 22
feet while still a high school student[6]. At the University of
Kansas, he ran the 100-yard dash in 10.9 seconds, threw the shotput 56
feet, triple jumped more than 50 feet, and won the high jump in the
Big Eight track and field championships three straight years”. We’re talking about a guy who was 7′1′’. ’nuff said.

Jun.1 at 9:30 am

Jack says:
W. Mack : Strongly disagree with your statement about Scottie Pippen. The year (1993-94) he played without Jordan, he led the Bulls to a 55-27 record. (Pippen himself missed about 10 games early in the season that year, otherwise they probably could have matched the previous year’s mark). This was just two wins short of the previous year, when they had MJ ! In the playoffs, the Bulls swept Cleveland and then took the Knicks to 7. (There was a very controversial call in Game 5 of that series that went in the Knicks favor, and really turned the series). For the season, Pip won the All-star game MVP award, led the Bulls in scoring and assists, and led the entire league in steals. He was first team all-NBA, and third in MVP voting. So, Pippen proved that year beyond a doubt that he was a great (not good) player, and he was willing to play second-banana to Jordan all those years because he knew that’s what it took to win NBA championships. Unlike the myths that some believe, Jordan did not do it alone. Far from it.

Jun.1 at 12:19 pm

Jack says:
Young Chris : Payton was a very good player, but please don’t make it sound like he “won” a championship. He was on a team with Shaq and Wade, they won the championship, and Payton was along for the ride. Heck, even Mourning did more for the heat playoff team than Payton. As for the comparison to Stockton, it’s close but the edge goes to Stockton. His assist record is pretty close to beyond reach. He finished with 15,806. Mark Jackson is next with 10,334. Payton is over 1000 behind Jackson. Think about that.. Stockton is 50% ahead of the guy in second place ! There aren’t many records like that. And think how many assists he lost passing the ball the knuckleheads like Ostertag who couldn’t finish. He’s also way ahead as the all-time steals leader. Magic Johnson himself has called Stockton the greatest point guard. Give credit to Payton for leading the Supersonics to the Finals, and for being a tough defensive player. But Stockton did so many things that just don’t show up in the box score, as they say. Things like setting effective screens on guys twice his size. There’s a reason he was selected to the 1992 Dream team.

Jun.1 at 12:59 pm

Holiday says:
Hold up, did somebody really name Dirk in this debate over the best power forward of all time? That deserves a slap in the face, anybody that disappears in the playoffs need be left of the list, besides that the obvious reasons he aint in the running, like for example he can’t defend anybody!

Jun.1 at 1:04 pm

Holiday says:
Oh and don’t hate on John Stockton, he is without a doubt the Greatest Point Guard of all-time, I mean your argument for the glove goes out the window when you consider the fact that his nickname is “The Glove” for his defense and Stockton has way more steal’s, Oh and Stockton produced till his last game and was always a premier guard were Payton has already done all but vanished in the NBA! he’s pretty much collecting a paycheck for doing nothing!

Jun.1 at 1:37 pm

Ryan Jones says:
“John Stockton, he is without a doubt the Greatest Point Guard of all-time.”
Holiday, I find it interesting that you would take the time to post on our website, when it’s clear you’ve never actually watched professional basketball. Thanks for visiting, though.

Jun.1 at 1:38 pm

Zach F. says:
Definately E. Baylor if he would not have gotten hurt so much. Could’ve been the greatest of all time. Top 5
Wilt
Jordan
Russell
Bird
Magic
probably 5-10 more you cpuld switch in and out.
To me Wilt is the GOAT. Untouchable. MJ close second.
Still, too hard to compare players from different generations and that play 2 different positions.

Jun.1 at 2:42 pm

Ryan Jones says:
Ryan’s updated 5:
1. Nirvana
2. Toadies
3. Smashing Pumpkins
4. Melvins
5. Tad
Sixth Man: Heart!

Jun.1 at 5:29 pm

Holiday says:
Well Ryan Jones, Why don’t you tell me who deserves that title? Maybe a guy that stands 6′9 that had a record Stockton absolutly destroyed, oh and that was Magical! or maybe it’s a guy that beat his wife yet never got a ring and holds no real records? Please tell me how all these Physically gifted forces, with size, speed, and strength advantages over stockton failed to capture records like he did and take into consideration he played in utah with only Malone, and Hornicek to help! Loyaly stayed his whole career, never Chased a title like Payton, or Nash ect.

Jun.1 at 7:59 pm

Young Chris #3 says:
Oh, I don’t think GP is the best Point ever, but I’m just saying that he was the best in the 90s, He used to shut dudes down and get in their head too

Jun.1 at 8:02 pm

Young Chris #3 says:
And I love when ppl say Wilt was the greatest EVER because I have never met anyone who said it who lived to see Wilt play (not bustin on u Zach F. cuz I don’t know u). MJ was the greatest, dude came back at 40 and dropped 50, and had it not been for his knees, the Wizards would’a made the playoffs both years (and THAT is saying something for the Wizards teams back then). And I still hold Shaq above Wilt. Also, ppl talk about Wilt’s work ethis, but I SWEAR when A.I. used to have the world at him for not practicing, I remember hearing of how Wilt told his coach he would show up for practice OR the game, but that the coach could only have him for one or the other.

Jun.1 at 8:42 pm

Dennard says:
John Stockton the greatest PG ever?!!! Holiday, what are you smoking? WTF?!!? You say outrageous sh*t all the time, but come on dude. Isiah Thomas is better than John Stockton. Damn the records, just look at the overall impact and John Stockton did not have the greatest impact at the PG position.

Jun.1 at 8:45 pm

Dennard says:
And Duncan is better than Malone, better defender, more clutch, and just damn better.

Jun.1 at 8:50 pm

Holiday says:
How do you figure, the Piston’s were dirty, cheap, and they were just burning time til Jordan took over! Besides Malone checked Zeke real good and there is nothing to support your case, I at least gave a good case for Stockton!

Jun.1 at 9:19 pm

Ryan Jones says:
Holiday, you’re cute. Stockton is a top-five pg, no question, but he couldn’t hold Earvin Johnson’s jock, and I’m pretty sure he knows that as well as I do. If your criteria is records, I assume you think that means Kareem is better than Jordan. If your criteria is “Magic gets docked points because he’s tall,” than I can’t believe I just wasted 19 seconds of my day arguing with a crazy person.

Jun.1 at 9:20 pm

Ryan Jones says:
or “then,” if you prefer gramatical correctness.

Jun.2 at 12:03 am

Holiday says:
That’s all I ask for is a little respect for these guys, I mean just because these guy’s played in Utah nobody gives them any respect! And alot of people say Magic is better based mainly because he has championships, but he also had Kareem, Worthy, Rambis, Byron Scott, among other’s so I just don’t wanna hear that cause they never won a chip there not as good they didn’t have much to work with! (them being Stockton and Malone!) But I’ll accept second to Magic only!

Jun.2 at 1:01 am

Young Chris #3 says:
Oscar was nice too, kid. I know it’s been disputed on here earlier about how he never played “one” position, but the same can be said about Magic in a sense.

Jun.2 at 2:00 am

Holiday says:
But the whole deal with Magic being bigger, it’s like a 4 cylinder compared to a V8, if the 4 cylinder can keep up with the V8 than give it the props it deserves ya know! And think about this realistically Stockton had 1 or 2 guys to pass to were Magic had at least 7 or 8! I mean Ostertag lost more passes than anything!

Jun.2 at 10:37 am

Jack says:
Young Chris : You said “And ppl talk about Wilt’s work ethic”. As seinfeld use to say “Who are these people ?” Wilt did not have what would be considered a great work ethic. He frequently did not get along with his coaches. He did make that statement about coming to the arena only once per day : either for the shootaround in the morning or the game at night, he left it up to the coach to decide. On the court, though, it was a different matter. You obviously don’t average 30 points per game, 23 rebound per game, and 46 minutes per game for your career (and who knows how many blocked shots, since they didn’t track this statistic when Wilt played) unless you are a guy who has kept himself in great shape. As far as seeing Wilt play, I did. Hope that this doesn’t surprise you, but there are alot of 50+ year olds like myself who loved the NBA even back in the ’60s.

Jun.2 at 10:41 am

Jack says:
In stockton’s 19 years with Utah, they never had a losing record.

Jun.2 at 11:29 am

Vitor says:
People need to stop comparing Duncan to Malone. Duncan is a much, much better defensive player than Malone ever was and his passing skills also are much better. Had he played with Stockton, he would have won plenty of rings. Not that he doesn’t have enough, but still…

Jun.2 at 1:19 pm

Jack says:
Vitor : You’re probably correct about Duncan being a better defensive player than Malone. But doesn’t sell King Karl short. He was a first-team defensive player three years in a row (1996 thru 1998). Not bad considering that Scottie Pippen was a fixture on the 1st team defense as a forward, essentially leaving only one spot open for another forward.

Jun.2 at 11:24 pm

B-rad says:
Kareem is the GOAT IMO. who dominates for twenty year? 19 all star selections. put that into perspective. shaq, one of the all time greats himself, had his 14th all star this year, and remember how controversial that was? hed only played in 4 games when he was selected, so imagine him being an all star for 5 more years. yeh. college banned the dunk cos cap was kicking so much ass. no one dominated the league for as long as him, and 6 MVPs? cmon, and some of u guys arent putting him in ur top 5. and he invented some thing called the skyhook. 1) Kareem
2) MJ
3) Magic
4) Wilt*
5) Bird * maybe the most underrated stat of all time, in one season, Wilt averaged 48.5 minutes per game. think about that…

Jun.3 at 5:04 pm

Heri says:
He may have the rings and honors, but Barkley, Drexler, Olajuwon, Kobe, Thomas, Pippen, Ewing… are way ahead of Tim Duncan on that list IMO. Who would pay to watch Tim Duncan play ? He’s plain ugly to watch and most important: who’s playing against him ? There has never been so many good players in the L, but at the same time there has never been so few superstars. Nowadays, players are called stars way before time and that’s the reason why Duncan seems to be on top of this game.

Jun.3 at 5:20 pm

Jack says:
Heri: You lost me right after you wrote “Ewing”.

Jun.4 at 4:46 am

Holiday says:
Wow Duncan has been stopping the likes of Kwame Brown, Darko, Haslim, Gooden, ect. If I remember right Stoudimire averaged like 36 against him 2 years ago in the playoffs! Karl didn’t have the length Duncan does, but he shut down a higher calibur of players in his day, like a Young Shaq in ‘97 I do believe and Duncan couldn’t ever stop him in his prime even with Robinson!

Jun.4 at 1:19 pm

Heri says:
Jack, I’d rather watch Pat’s fade aways in his Orlando days than Duncan’s pathetic, even if effective, moves!

Jun.4 at 8:11 pm

Holiday says:
Wow, nobody takes advantages into account! As good as guys like Ewing, Hakeem, Mourning among others were they didn’t ever really have all Duncan has! He was mentored and learned form Robinson, and the Spurs team is alot more talented than the Knicks, Heat, Rockets ect. so considering I think those guy’s deserve a little more credit! and Hakeem would have embarrassed Duncan in the post!

Jun.5 at 7:14 am

Jack says:
Holiday: The Knicks, in their heyday (1991-96) were a defensive-first type of club, similar to today’s Cavaliers. I’ll agree with you that John Starks is no Tony Parker, but Larry Johnson and Charles Oakley were no slouches. As for Hakeem, you’re probably correct that he didn’t have the supporting cast (Thorpe, Kenny the Jet, a young Sam Cassell and of course Robert Horry) during their championship years, but in 1996-97 Hakeem teamed with Drexler and Barkley (and Kevin Willis). That group should have done better. Sometimes having the most talent doesn’t help win championships (ask the Sacramento Kings or the Portland Trailblazers from a few years back)

Jun.5 at 12:19 pm

Allenp says:
Holiday Duncan has never, ever, played with anybody on Stockton’s level. Ever. You can’t ignore Stockton, and an All-Star like Hornacek, and say Malone had nobody. Robinson never averaged more than 12 points with Duncan. The year they won the ring in 2003 Parker averaged 13 and Manu averaged 9. The third leading scorer was Stephen Jackson at 12.4 and the Admiral was giving them 8 and 8. Nah, Duncan is the best hands down. Better post moves than malone, better passer, better finisher, WAY better defender. The most complete post player this side of Hakeem.

Jun.5 at 12:24 pm

Allenp says:
And Holiday, have you checked Magic’s career numbers against Stockton’s since you seem stuck on that? 22, 10 and 8 beats 13 and 10 everyday dawg. More importantly, 5 rings in 9 Finals appearances makes you the best, point blank. And that athletic thing needs to stop. Stockton was at least 6′3″ and he was about 190. That’s protypical point guard size. I hate when people make that argument. If he wanted to get bigger he should have hit the weights.

Jun.5 at 12:53 pm

FL1P says:
Compare this to the player profiles Russ gave in the beginning: Tim Duncan: 3 Championships (with a fourth near!), 2 time MVP, 3 time Finals MVP, 10 time All-NBA team (9 time 1st team), 10 All Defensive Team (7 time 1st team) - only player to be named to both team for his first 10 years! Averages 21.8 ppg, 11.9 rpg, 3.2 apg, 2.4 bpg for his career. Seemingly can control every game, doesn’t need to score to do it. Definitly up with all of the afromentioned.

Jun.5 at 1:28 pm

Ben Osborne says:
What about Bob Pettit?

Jun.5 at 7:45 pm

Jack says:
Ben: Pettit was a great player. It was his all-time scoring record that Wilt broke. Career 26.4ppg and 16.2rpg. Not too shabby. Also, how many players can (like Pettit) say they defeated Bill Russell in an NBA Championship series. But Bob is unfortunately long forgotten. It seems like many people believe the NBA started when Bird/Johnson were rookies, so what chance is there of remembering a guy who shined in the late ’50’s to mid 60’s ? Similarly, for Elvin Hayes, John Havlicek, and Jerry Lucas.

Jun.5 at 7:46 pm

Jack says:
Allenp: Stockton is/was 6′1″. He was listed that way in college and all thru his NBA career.

Jun.5 at 8:45 pm

michael jordan says:
Ryan Jones i totally disagree im goin wit.. mj as #1 #2 is magic then wilt then probly larry then i dont know possibly julius

Jun.5 at 9:05 pm

mj says:
my top 5 goes:
#1 Micheal Jordan
#2 Wilt Chamberland
#3 Steve Nash
#4 Lebron James
#5 Dwayne Wade
There are a lot of old school basketball that probably deserve more credit then lebron and dwayne at least for right now. but steve nash is first a canadian baller who is respectful and a team player. Kobe is amazing hes like a magiacian but he thinks to highly of him self and is not a team player like steve.

Jun.6 at 8:07 am

Jack says:
Nice article today pertaining to the topic we’re talking about : http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070605&sportCat=nba. Also, MJ, you either must be kidding with the Dwayne Wade selection or you only started watching basketball three years ago and never read about the oldtimers. Wade has never even made 1st team All-NBA !!! Why not also remove Chamberland (sic) and replace him with Gilbert Arenas ??

Jun.8 at 2:46 am

DR LEN GILMAN says:
Jack seems to be the only one I read here who has a knowledge BB history.
Wilt won 11 rebounding titles against Russell, Kareem, Lanier, Thurmond, Reed, Bellamy, Cowens.
Shaq playing against no centers has 00 rebounding titles.
Wilt is not the Center to win an assist title, no forward won it either. Oh, and his 55 rebound game was against Bill Russell.

Jun.10 at 12:15 pm

Jack says:
Dr Len : I guess I know the BB history primarily because I’ve been around a while. But even as a kid, I loved reading about the old-timers, which - for me- meant guys like Mikan and Cousy and Pettit.
Anyway, you are right about Wilt and the rebounding. The NBA started a thing a while ago called “rebounding rate” or something like that and it was suppose to represent the number of possible rebounds that a player grabbed. And Dennis Rodman was ranked #1 using this criteria. Wilt, I believe, was something like #12 on this list, partially because they were only able to go back to 1970 or so, when Wilt was pulling down ONLY 18 rebounds a game. Of course, anyone would have to be ignoring facts to claim that Wilt wasn’t the greatest rebounder of all time. And along with Russell the greatest shot blockers of all time.

Jun.10 at 12:23 pm

Jack says:
Steven A Smith has written a piece on Duncan comparing him with the other power forwards. http://www.philly.com/inquirer/columnists/stephen_a_smith/7924207.html He mentions Malone, Barkley, Elvin Hayes, Kevin McHale, Pettit and Nate Thurmond. I personally don’t think of Thurmond as a power forward. He did spend the very early part of his career playing forward when the Warriors also had Wilt on the team. Yet for the bulk of his career, Thurmond was a center and a terrific defensive one at that. McHale was a very good ballplayer and the Championships have to count for something. But at roughly 18ppg and 7.3rpg career, he is definitely a notch below the others.

Jun.12 at 2:09 pm

polo assn. says:
kobe bryant should be at the top of the list

Jun.13 at 12:09 am

DR LEN GILMAN says:
Jack I go back to early Cousy and Pettit. Rebounding isnt size, see Shaq.
Lucas, Rodman, Baylor, were great.
Wilt would have a very easy time today especialy with the steps and charging they (Shaq) get away with.

Jun.13 at 1:33 am

Jack says:
polo assn : Yeah, hate to admit it because I’m not a big fan of the guy, but by the time his career is over, Kobe might crack the top 15 to 20 greatest players of all-time. He’s had the advantage of coming into the NBA right out of high school. (If Wilt had this advantage, poor Kareem would have had to play till he was 50 to break Wilt’s career scoring record). He’s had three seasons where he averaged 30+ and he has three championships (special thanks to Shaq). He’s only 28, so he has alot of good years ahead of him, barring injury. Probably has a good chance of finishing with 30,000 career points. And he has been all-NBA defense first team as well. It will be interesting to see how he does the rest of his career without Shaq.

Jun.13 at 1:37 am

Jack says:
Dr Len : You’re right - rebounding is all about desire. Rodman was the epitome of that. Another guy who comes to mind is Moses Malone. That guy just loved to get in the paint and mix it up. If you include his two seasons in the NBA, the guy is right around 30K points for his career. Not too shabby.

Jun.14 at 4:27 pm

Nilly tha kid says:
Jordan, Russel, Wilt, Kobe, Moses. Enough said

Jun.14 at 4:35 pm

Nilly tha kid says:
you have got to look at the impact some players have had on the game look at my pics these guys along with others, but since i could only pick 5, have made huge impacts on the game, if you struggle with acknowledging that, stop watching basketball for the rest of your life and watch a sport you would understand and were meant to watch like water polo cuz you obviously dont get basketball and dont even try and say Kobe isn’t in your top 5 cuz your lying bastards

Jun.14 at 4:38 pm

Nilly tha kid says:
and think about if your picks were in the nba today…how would they do…and with the talent that got them in to this subject as being in a top 5 consideration.

Jun.14 at 9:01 pm

Jack says:
Nilly : You picked Russell and Moses over Kareem. Now you could argue that Russell was a much better rebounder and he has all those rings. So that’s a legitimate debate. But how do you justify Moses over Kareem ? They played in the same era, so it’s fair to compare numbers. Kareem is the all-time leading scorer, and averaged 24.6 over 20 years. Moses averaged 20.3 over his combined ABA/NBA career, which lasted 21 years. Scoring Advantage: Jabbar. Rebounds : Jabbar averaged 11.2, Malone 12.3 so Rebound advantage to Malone. Blocked Shots: Jabbar: 2.6bpg and led league 4 times, Malone a weak 1.3bpg. Block Shot Advantage: Jabbar. MVPs : Jabbar 6 MVP awards, Malone 3 MVP Awards. MVP Advantage: Jabbar. Rings: Jabbar 6, Malone 1. Explain to me again that part about not understanding basketball?

Jun.15 at 7:29 pm

Holiday says:
A couple things, First I’m kinda suprised nobody that I seen named Dominiqe Wilkins! and Second but most important there has already been a team that can claim the greatest ever and it’s only takes 3 words “Original Dream Team”

Jun.16 at 12:54 am

Jack says:
Holiday: Dominique Wilkens did not even make the NBA’s top 50 when the NBA had a blue-ribbon panel pick it about 10 years ago. Also, he’s not in the Hall of Fame. I have to admit the guy does not get the respect he deserves, but there is no way he can be included in a list of the top 12 players of all-time. And, as far as the original Dream team, I’m sure you know that the team represents a point in time, i.e. 1992. Heck, Christian Laettner was on that team ! (They took him over Shaq).

Jun.16 at 9:52 pm

Jack says:
Come to think of it, Wilkins wasn’t even selected for that 1992 Dream Team, when he was more or less at the peak of his career. Like Dangerfield, he got no respect. He sort of falls into the category of great scorers, which would include Alex English, Adrian Dantley,Pete Maravich and George Gervin and even Dan Issel (if you combine ABA/NBA). Not complete all-around players like you would need to be to crack the Top 12. Dantley probably had the best combination of scoring/rebounding while Maravich was the best scorer/playmaker.

Jun.16 at 9:59 pm

Jack says:
In 2003, SLAM magazine picked a top 75 NBA players of all-time. Here’s their top 12, which is right on the money imo:
1.Michael Jordan
2.Wilt Chamberlain
3.Oscar Robertson
4.Bill Russell
5.Magic Johnson
6.Larry Bird
7.Kareem-Abdul Jabbar
8.Jerry West
9.Shaquille O’Neal
10.Julius Erving
11.Elgin Baylor
12. Hakeem Olajuwon

Jun.21 at 8:45 am

Nisanth.G says:
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Wilt Chamberlain
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Kobe/Lebron

Jun.22 at 9:49 pm

Jack says:
Lately, there seems to be alot of talk that Tim Duncan belongs up there with the all-time greats (talking Top 12). However, you almost never hear Kevin Garnett mentioned in that same discussion. Yet Duncan and Garnett have had very similar statistics. Both 30 years old, but Garnett has the benefit of a couple of extra years in the league since he skipped college. Garnett, for his career, is 20.5ppg, 11.4rpg and 4.5apg. Duncan : 21.8ppg, 11.9rpg, and 3.2 apg. Garnett a 10 time all-star, Duncan 9 times. Put Garnett on the Spurs and Duncan on the Wolves, and what do you think happens ?

Jun.23 at 5:57 am

spUrrier says:
whAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENS ? The wolves acutally become a better team and the spurs dont win 4 titles, because duncan is a better position defender ( ill give the athelticism edge to kevin , but duncan does more with skill) and has better post moves then kg ever did. Dont be a stat whore and believe kg was better because of a bunch of entiticing numbers.

Jun.23 at 10:29 am

Jack says:
Easy there, spUrrier. They are both great defensive players, as acknowledged by the panel that picks NBA all-defensive teams. Duncan has made the 1st team 7 times, and 2nd team twice. Garnett has made the 1st team 6 times, and 2nd team twice. That’s a wash. I know you won’t appreciate this, but statistically Duncan is the better shot blocker while Garnett is better at getting steals. There were a couple of years where the Wolves had talent surrounding Garnett (Sprewell, Cassell and Wally), but the problem always was that the surrounding players were not great defenders. The Spurs, on the other hand, have great team defense, often ranked #1 in the league. My view is that the big difference there (i.e., the team defense concept) is with the coaching. Flip Saunders is no Popovich.

Jun.25 at 8:31 am

ziad bastami says:
hey!
all are great players!
but there are one guy missing in this lot, tim duncan!!!!
4 rings, in 4 finals!
and look at the spurs since he came in, always a 55+ team, and always in the second round at least, and winning all the finals they have been in!
so for me:
1- jordan
2- larry legend
3- tim duncan
4- bigg O
5- bill russel
6- magic
7- wilt the slot!!!
8- kobe
9- lebron………..for now!
that is it!
tim, all respect man!
for me know that i am a die hard vince carter fan, and wish he was where he should be, but being nice and all aint going to let u get the blinks blinks!
and if any one mention allen iverson in the top 10, well i do respect the courage of the fella, but he aint there!never!

Jun.27 at 5:44 pm

Iplayball#4 says:
Mike
Magic
Bird
Duncan
Wilt (order goes SG PG SF PF C) P.S Whats with everyone and kobe the only time he passes is when he wants it back and he only looks so good because the rest of his team is worth nothing

Jun.27 at 11:47 pm

DR LEN GILMAN says:
7 Scoring titles
11 Rebounding titles
9 Fg % Titles
1 Assist Titles
Wilt’s Total=28
Now take any 5 players and compare them in total.
PS Wilt scored 60+ 32 times.
Rest of the NBA all time =26

Jun.29 at 3:42 am

Jack says:
Dr Len : Yes, and if they only had kept blocked shot statistics when Wilt played, I think his dominance would become even more clear (as if it shouldn’t be already). Harvey Pollack, who was a publicity director for the Phil Warriors and 76ers during Wilt’s time there, claimed Wilt blocked about 25 shots in a game more than once. Wouldn’t be surprised if Wilt would pass the Big “O” to be #1 in the all-time triple doubles category, if blocked shots had been kept. Remember that, toward the end of his career, Wilt once blocked five of Kareem’s shots IN ONE GAME !

Jun.30 at 6:02 pm

Jack says:
ziad: Obviously, it’s too early to include Lebron in the GOAT category, but he is certainly off to the best start ever. No one has accomplished what this kid has before the age of 23. (Carmelo Anthony probably comes the closest) He’s put in four seasons, playing virtually every Cav game, and averaging 26.7ppg, 6.7rpg and 6.4apg. Wilt had yet to play his first game in the NBA at this age. Of course, had the rules allowed it, Wilt would have dominated the NBA right out of high school. He played against pro players while working at Kutcher’s and dominated them, including Neil Johnston, who was an NBA all-star and later to become Wilt’s coach. But back to Lebron. Seems to have a good attitude toward the game, and that will go a long way. About the only thing he needs to improve upon is his 3 point shooting. We’ll see. In other 10 years or so, we should know.

Jul.6 at 8:52 am

Jack says:
I was leafing thru a book at the local Barnes & Noble, which compared players. And then it also ranked players. (Sorry can’t remember the name of the book - something with the words Better and Best in the title). It was a little surprising to see Bob Cousy ranked in the top 10. And in the section where the book compares Cousy with Stockton, it gives Cousy the nod. I’ve always thought a little less of Cousy because of his atrocious career field goal pct (0.375). On the positive side, the guy was a 12 time All-Star and one-time MVP winner. The book argued that his assist statistics were lower because he played in an era (especially early in his career) where the team scoring was relatively low. He did lead the league in assists 8 times. He actually owned an impressive rebounding average (5.2rpg career) for a point guard. Still, the old footage they show of the “Houdini of the Hardwood” dribbling around the court makes it difficult for me to consider him in the Greatest of all Time category.

Jul.6 at 8:21 pm

Jack says:
The book is “Who’s Better, Who’s Best in Basketball?: Mr Stats Sets the Record Straight on the Top 50 NBA Players of All Time” (Paperback)
by Elliott Kalb

Jul.8 at 7:19 am

Arron says:
Top 5: Bird, MJ, Magic, Russell, Pippen. People above Tim Duncan, etc…
Dr J
Wilt
Olajuwon
Shaq
Shawn Kemp
Karl Malone
Dennis Rodman (more rings, better rebounder)
Stockton
Isaiah Thomas
Arvidas Sabonis
Pat Ewing
Charles Barkley
Zo
Larry Johnson
Nash
and anyone else who can actually entertain AND win-rather than just hitting as many twelve-foot bank shots as is humanly possible in one season. And as for Kobe, Lebron, Dirk Nowitzki, etc…
these guys are only 21st century versions of MJ, Magic and Bird (respectively) in the EARLY stages of their careers (except Magic did what was necessary to get that ring Bron)…they’re no closer to being in the top ten with them than Carlos Arroyo, Jason Kapono and Walter McCarty.

Jul.8 at 9:28 am

Jack says:
Here’s a comparison between Stockton and Cousy. Seasons: Stockton 19, Cousy 14. PPG: Cousy 18.4, Stockton 13.1. APG: Stockton 10.5, Cousy 7.5. League Leader in Assists: Cousy 9, Stockton 9. RPG : Cousy 5.2, Stockton 2.7. Steals per game : Stockton 2.2, Cousy - statistic not kept during Cousy’s career. All-star appearances: Cousy 13, Stockton 10. MVPs: Cousy 1, Stockton 0. All-NBA 1st team: Cousy 10, Stockton 2. All-NBA 2nd Team: Stockton 11, Cousy 2. Field Goal Percentage: Stockton 0.515, Cousy 0.375. Free throw Pct: Stockton 0.826, Cousy 0.803. NBA Championships: Cousy 6, Stockton 0. Other: Stockton is the all-time leader in assists and steals, and his assist record will not be broken anytime soon.

Jul.12 at 8:02 am

Jack says:
Arron : I’m guessing you’re from Chicago and no older than 35. What other profile is possible to explain why you would pick Pippen over the others on your list ?? 16.4 ppg, 6.4rpg and 5.2 apg career isn’t going to cut it to get on the greatest of all-time list. He was only a 7-time all-star in a 17 year career. Great defensive player, no doubt. And he was a winner, but so were Steve Kerr and Bill Wennington. What Pippen was is the perfect second banana.

Jul.21 at 10:49 pm

Christian gangell says:
Tony Parker- first non American finals MVP Tim Duncan- just awesome Magic- pretty big point guard Jordan- you have to put him in there Shaq- Dominant plus wikid handles at the all star games. LOL

Jul.21 at 11:07 pm

Christian gangell says:
1- Tony Parker
2- Tony Parker
3- Tony Parker
4- Tony Parker
5- Tony Parker
6th man- Christian Gangell Just the best point guard ever. way better than Vince Carter or melo

Jul.21 at 11:16 pm

Christian gangell says:
Spurs are the greatest. champs 07 then again in 2009, we win every second year so 09 is the year then 2011. Wellington is going to win the GHBA this year! Nothing can stop us apart from the Gators but we r gonna win next time we play them

Aug.1 at 6:54 pm

Jack says:
Christian: So Tony Parker is the first non American Finals MVP. So what part of the US would I find Nigeria in, because Hakeem was an NBA Finals MVP and he is from Nigeria.

Aug.5 at 4:39 am

luke in aus says:
russell (more rings than fingers)
wilt (changed the rules to stop him!)
oscar (averaged a triple double)
cap (too many points/rebounds/titles to leave out)
jordan (because i dont want any arguments, id rather put the logo in this list) its hard to leave out greats like ewing, malone, robinson, magic, bird, west, pippen, moses, hakeem, barry, duncan, drexler and too many others to name.

Aug.11 at 6:02 pm

ray says:
Wilt, MJ, Bird, Oscar, Russell

Nov.13 at 5:07 am

Penny The Great says:
Come on guys, you honestly think the guys from yesteryear could compete with the likes of a Lebron, or Iverson. Man ,please Jordans the man, but he could’ve taken the 76ers to a championship, let along the bulls without Phil, and Pippen. Magic had karrem, and if he was on the Lakers now, I strongly doubt he could compete with the great Kobe Bryant. And lets face it, Wilt was great because he was taller than ever body, i ganrantee Vince Carter, along with some other stars, would’ve glady made him a poster. They were great in their times but, the generation is much faster and they would probably be six men. My list consist of:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Allen Iverson
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Larry Bird
5. Shaq O’Neil (And if he continue at the rate he’s going, Lebron should top this list) Come on face the truth.

Mar.14 at 10:35 pm

Lance says:
The Hustlin n’ Bustlin Badboys Allen Iverson
Bruce Bowen
Ron Artest
Dennis Rodman
Jason Maxieel

Apr.2 at 1:38 am

Jerry says:
Impossible question but I like to balance it out by generation: Russell (50/60’s)
Dr. J (70’s)
Magic (80’s)
Jordan (90’s)
LeBron (00’s) 6th Man: Pistol Pete Maravich (for the ages)

Apr.11 at 10:06 pm

IversonRox says:
My Top 5- Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Wilt Chamberlain
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar =D

May.14 at 4:53 pm

youngmuggsy says:
rebounding stats mean nothing before the 80s

Jun.1 at 12:11 pm

Danny M. says:
Great players should not have glaring weaknesses. Shaq gets left out, as hard as that is (I’ve been a fan since I met him at LSU) for me to say. His FT shooting has actually regressed over the years. Great players; the greatest players, IMPROVE, not decline.. especially in an area like FT shooting that just requires a lot of gym hours to get better. Jordan, Russell, Big O, Bird, Magic are my Top 5. A (legit) Top 10 is even harder than the Top 5, ’cause, after those first seven, you start trying to add names, and asking yourself, “Does __________ really belong on the same list as MJ? Or Oscar?” etc…